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600,000 off reserve natives recognized; Same benefits as on reserve?
Topic Started: Jan 8 2013, 10:40 AM (2,869 Views)
Renegade
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Atikokan, Ontario
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013...-challenge.html

The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples and several Metis and non-status Indians took the federal government to court in 1999 alleging discrimination because they are not considered "Indians" under a section of the Constitution Act.

They argued they are entitled to some or all of the same rights and benefits as on-reserve First Nations members.

They say that includes access to the same health, education and other benefits Ottawa gives status Indians; being able to hunt, trap, fish and gather on public land; and the ability to negotiate and enter treaties with the federal government.


What percentage of native blood do you have to have to be recognized as Metis?
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Partikle
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It's not a percentage in Canada, it's a percentage in the U.S.

In Canada, it's complicated.
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bowbender
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When is all of this BS going to end? I wonder what else these "Indians" are going to negotiate with the Feds .
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Renegade
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Get ready to open your wallets in the future. It is going to get messy now. The costs are going to be staggering. This will open up many legal challenges by non-status and metis across the country on a wide range of issues. First up. Tax exempt status and hunting and fishing rights on par with status indians. I give up. I was once a liberal and have even voted NDP but now I will only vote conservative because I believe they are the only ones who will stand up to this BS and this issue is a deal breaker for me. One nation, one people, all equal in the eye's of the law. Take everything away from Indians and give them some crown lands here and there and be done with it. They can now have ownership and be part of Canada. Paul Martin and some other liberal and NDP MPP's visiting with and lauding Spence almost made me puke.
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Unbalievable, where is the justice, they just want more and more every time, is it ever going to end.
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I'm very tired of getting up every morning for the last 35+ years and going to work to pay for all these people. I never once agreed to have any of my money spent this way. I now have to work till 67 and hope Canada Pension Plan still has money left. Yes I also believe Harper has the guts to make this right. We need to start our own movement "It's our Canada too" :CanFlag:
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Renegade
Jan 8 2013, 09:40 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013...-challenge.html

The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples and several Metis and non-status Indians took the federal government to court in 1999 alleging discrimination because they are not considered "Indians" under a section of the Constitution Act.

They argued they are entitled to some or all of the same rights and benefits as on-reserve First Nations members.

They say that includes access to the same health, education and other benefits Ottawa gives status Indians; being able to hunt, trap, fish and gather on public land; and the ability to negotiate and enter treaties with the federal government.


What percentage of native blood do you have to have to be recognized as Metis?

I read the Judgement for the decision (most of the 175 pages anyway) and found this tidbit:

"The group of people characterized as “non-status Indians” are those to whom status could be granted by federal legislation. They would be people who had ancestral connection not necessarily genetic to those considered as “Indians” either in law or fact or any person who self-identifies as an Indian and is accepted as such by the Indian community, or a locally organized community, branch or council of an Indian association or organization which which that person wishes to be associated.

It may well be that there must be a determination on a case by case basis for each individual but this general description sufficiently identifies a group of people for whom the issues in this casehave meaning.
"

I can see the a million wannabees hunting without licences next fall!

Sam
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bowbender
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Yep our fish and wildlife are going take take a schit kicking now. Oh well that's what they want, that's what they are going to get. And it will be the non- Indians fault when there is nothing left. Never mind the tax exemption that they'll negotiate.
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And the freeloader line just keeps getting longer !
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Sam Menard
Jan 8 2013, 07:42 PM
Renegade
Jan 8 2013, 09:40 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013...-challenge.html

The Congress of Aboriginal Peoples and several Metis and non-status Indians took the federal government to court in 1999 alleging discrimination because they are not considered "Indians" under a section of the Constitution Act.

They argued they are entitled to some or all of the same rights and benefits as on-reserve First Nations members.

They say that includes access to the same health, education and other benefits Ottawa gives status Indians; being able to hunt, trap, fish and gather on public land; and the ability to negotiate and enter treaties with the federal government.


What percentage of native blood do you have to have to be recognized as Metis?

I read the Judgement for the decision (most of the 175 pages anyway) and found this tidbit:

"The group of people characterized as “non-status Indians” are those to whom status could be granted by federal legislation. They would be people who had ancestral connection not necessarily genetic to those considered as “Indians” either in law or fact or any person who self-identifies as an Indian and is accepted as such by the Indian community, or a locally organized community, branch or council of an Indian association or organization which which that person wishes to be associated.

It may well be that there must be a determination on a case by case basis for each individual but this general description sufficiently identifies a group of people for whom the issues in this casehave meaning.
"

I can see the a million wannabees hunting without licences next fall!

Sam

Holy Smokers..... So anyone basically can deem themselves native. I really feel sorry for my kids... Not sure what to say other than..... I am officially declaring I am a Indian.
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MOOSEHEAD

They are taking advantage of every non native in this country and its not right anymore. Its passed the line. They need to be cut loose in my books. Or have 2014 be the last year any of them can get on the freeloading wagon. Its been long enough paying them back for 'taking their land' with our wallets. A friend of mine is ashamed to be native. :\

And now with every working Canadian having to pay more for EI its just insane! (;

Sorry myself like many others are tired of them abusing our system. :coffee:
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warpipe
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I would think FN's would fight this tooth and nail. The pie just got cut in a lot more pieces!
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Norma
Jan 8 2013, 07:39 PM
I'm very tired of getting up every morning for the last 35+ years and going to work to pay for all these people. I never once agreed to have any of my money spent this way. I now have to work till 67 and hope Canada Pension Plan still has money left. Yes I also believe Harper has the guts to make this right. We need to start our own movement "It's our Canada too" :CanFlag:

I feel the same way about foriegn aid, keeping murderers for life, English as a second language, welfare bums...free sex changes...and the list goes on!!
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CanuckShooter
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Renegade
Jan 8 2013, 10:40 AM


What percentage of native blood do you have to have to be recognized as Metis?

What % do you need to be German, English or Spanish??

Prior to 1985 if you married a status Indian, you were automatically given status...so some might have zero native genetics....same thing for adoptees.
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i have a friends that have 3 kids, the wife is Metis, the oldest was able to get status, the middle had status, lost his card reappied and was denied, the youngest wasnt able to get status.
My mother in law is full blooded FN, but due to some historical issues she is unable to claim status, but there is no questioning if she is FN or not


Know a few people up north who "gave it a shot" years ago actually got status, they didnt know if they were or not, but since they had to do nothing and someone from the band did all the leg work they were quite suprised to get status and even got a picture of their great great uncle.

One set of rules would be a great starting point, but alas its government BS
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Partikle
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dobber
Jan 10 2013, 09:28 AM
One set of rules would be a great starting point, but alas its government BS

Actually, in this case, don't blame the Government, it's the Federal Court. The Government was fighting it; read the CBC link that Renegade provided at the top of this thread.

The federal government has lost the latest battle in a 13-year legal fight over its responsibilities to Métis and non-status Indians.

On Tuesday, the Federal Court ruled that 200,000 Métis and 400,000 non-status Indians in Canada are indeed "Indians" under the Constitution Act, and fall under federal jurisdiction.

The decision helps to more clearly outline Ottawa's responsibilities toward the two aboriginal groups.
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CanuckShooter
Jan 10 2013, 03:04 AM
Renegade
Jan 8 2013, 10:40 AM


What percentage of native blood do you have to have to be recognized as Metis?

What % do you need to be German, English or Spanish??

Prior to 1985 if you married a status Indian, you were automatically given status...so some might have zero native genetics....same thing for adoptees.

You are partly correct. Prior to 1985 if a native woman married a white man, she lost her status. If a white woman married a native man she gained status.

As for being Metis, a lot of people claim to be one because they may have aboriginal blood. In the eyes of the law, a true metis person is a person who:
- self identifies
- is accepted by the local community
- and is descendant of a member of one of the original Metis communities at the time of European control.

Other people, with "some" aboriginal blood, may be able to call themselves non-status indians.

The way the law works, its up to the person who asserts a right to prove it.

Sam

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willy 9889
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One of my ancestors sold his family farm 100 years ago for pennies on the dollar compared to what that same property is worth today.
Im sure he was taken advantage of and i should recieve some sort of compensation.
What are my chances?

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This just in LOLOLOLOLOL lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol)))

I'm in the freeloader line lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol)))

Now that I know there is native ancestry in my familly ( Didn't know that yesterday ) Where are my rights !!!!
Today, I feel closer to mother earth ! Maybe thats why I like bowhunting so much :D

Its not politically incorrect if your talking about your own ethnic origan is it ?

This will be funny to see how many people who come out of the wood work like me :lol!!!: This is too much
LMFAO
Dose this mean I can go hunting next week ? LMFAO
NOT !

Trust me ! The flood gates are opening on this. LOL
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bigr
Jan 12 2013, 11:09 PM
This just in LOLOLOLOLOL lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol)))

I'm in the freeloader line lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol)))

Now that I know there is native ancestry in my familly ( Didn't know that yesterday ) Where are my rights !!!!
Today, I feel closer to mother earth ! Maybe thats why I like bowhunting so much :D

Its not politically incorrect if your talking about your own ethnic origan is it ?

This will be funny to see how many people who come out of the wood work like me :lol!!!: This is too much
LMFAO
Dose this mean I can go hunting next week ? LMFAO
NOT !

Trust me ! The flood gates are opening on this. LOL

Don't you have a trade???? they don't want you :girldance:
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chessy
Jan 12 2013, 09:29 PM
bigr
Jan 12 2013, 11:09 PM
This just in LOLOLOLOLOL  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))

I'm in the freeloader line  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))  lol)))

Now that I know there is native ancestry in my familly ( Didn't know that yesterday ) Where are my rights !!!!
Today, I feel closer to mother earth ! Maybe thats why I like bowhunting so much :D

Its not politically incorrect if your talking about your own ethnic origan is it ?

This will be funny to see how many people who come out of the wood work like me  :lol!!!:  This is too much
LMFAO
Dose this mean I can go hunting next week ? LMFAO
NOT !

Trust me ! The flood gates are opening on this. LOL

Don't you have a trade???? they don't want you :girldance:

Whats this talk about work and such.
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CanuckShooter
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bigr
Jan 12 2013, 10:09 PM
This just in LOLOLOLOLOL lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol)))

I'm in the freeloader line lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol))) lol)))

Now that I know there is native ancestry in my familly ( Didn't know that yesterday ) Where are my rights !!!!
Today, I feel closer to mother earth ! Maybe thats why I like bowhunting so much :D

Its not politically incorrect if your talking about your own ethnic origan is it ?

This will be funny to see how many people who come out of the wood work like me :lol!!!: This is too much
LMFAO
Dose this mean I can go hunting next week ? LMFAO
NOT !

Trust me ! The flood gates are opening on this. LOL

Get a job you freeloader....why should we have to work so you can get everything for nothing?? What makes you think we owe you a living? This sense of entitlement has to end somewhere! ;-)
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partikle
Jan 10 2013, 09:49 AM
dobber
Jan 10 2013, 09:28 AM
One set of rules would be a great starting point, but alas its government BS

Actually, in this case, don't blame the Government, it's the Federal Court. The Government was fighting it; read the CBC link that Renegade provided at the top of this thread.

The federal government has lost the latest battle in a 13-year legal fight over its responsibilities to Métis and non-status Indians.

On Tuesday, the Federal Court ruled that 200,000 Métis and 400,000 non-status Indians in Canada are indeed "Indians" under the Constitution Act, and fall under federal jurisdiction.

The decision helps to more clearly outline Ottawa's responsibilities toward the two aboriginal groups.

http://beaconnews.ca/blog/2013/01/first-na...ce-development/

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A little more info for everyone, this article speaks to comments within this thread.....First Nation Taxation

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/chelsea-vowel...246965925417366
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his or hers first qoute is garbage fN are allowed tax exempt
Since September 1, 2010, GST/HST registrant suppliers are allowed to credit status Indian purchasers at the time of sale with an amount equal to the 8% provincial part of the HST for qualifying off-reserve supplies of property or services. The Canada Revenue Agency (the CRA) processes registrant suppliers’ claims for a credit in respect of amounts that they have credited to status Indian purchasers at the point of sale. by qualifying it has to have hst already incorporated in the tax . basically if it has tax on it , it comes off no mater where it is purchased
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chessy
Jan 13 2013, 07:50 PM
his or hers first qoute is garbage fN are allowed tax exempt
Since September 1, 2010, GST/HST registrant suppliers are allowed to credit status Indian purchasers at the time of sale with an amount equal to the 8% provincial part of the HST for qualifying off-reserve supplies of property or services. The Canada Revenue Agency (the CRA) processes registrant suppliers’ claims for a credit in respect of amounts that they have credited to status Indian purchasers at the point of sale. by qualifying it has to have hst already incorporated in the tax . basically if it has tax on it , it comes off no mater where it is purchased

I'm going to chime in now...I'm FN, First Nations, Aboriginal...I'm not Indian, I'm not from India. I don't live on reserve, I pay income tax, sales tax and property tax,...yes Sales Tax, I don't live on reserve, therefore I have to pay it. I have paid a land transfer tax, twice. Before the HST I bought a new truck. I had it delivered to the reserve to avoid the GST portion only. PST I paid, because I don't live on reserve.

As for the Hunting and Fishing arguements. There are going to be those that will abuse the system, all races, creeds etc. And believe me, those that do abuse the system will be told and have been told.

I am glad to see the arguements on here. It shows that the people in OUR country, OUR Canada, love Canada and all it has to offer. When I say OUR, I am talking about every man, woman and child, regardless of race, creed, birthplace etc. in this fine land we all live in. This is what made Canada, this is what built Canada.

I'm only going to say one thing about the Idle No More issue. It is my personal belief and opinion, open the books. Because quite honestly I am disgusted at the stuff I see on some reserves. The way some families live compared to others.

Anyways that's my two cent's...I'll pay tax on that if you want me too...lol

Miigwetch




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Nimkii
Jan 13 2013, 10:27 PM
chessy
Jan 13 2013, 07:50 PM
his or hers first qoute is garbage fN are allowed tax exempt 
Since September 1, 2010, GST/HST registrant suppliers are allowed to credit status Indian purchasers at the time of sale with an amount equal to the 8% provincial part of the HST for qualifying off-reserve supplies of property or services. The Canada Revenue Agency (the CRA) processes registrant suppliers’ claims for a credit in respect of amounts that they have credited to status Indian purchasers at the point of sale.  by qualifying it has to have hst  already incorporated in the tax . basically if it has tax on it , it comes off  no mater where it is purchased

I'm going to chime in now...I'm FN, First Nations, Aboriginal...I'm not Indian, I'm not from India. I don't live on reserve, I pay income tax, sales tax and property tax,...yes Sales Tax, I don't live on reserve, therefore I have to pay it. I have paid a land transfer tax, twice. Before the HST I bought a new truck. I had it delivered to the reserve to avoid the GST portion only. PST I paid, because I don't live on reserve.

As for the Hunting and Fishing arguements. There are going to be those that will abuse the system, all races, creeds etc. And believe me, those that do abuse the system will be told and have been told.

I am glad to see the arguements on here. It shows that the people in OUR country, OUR Canada, love Canada and all it has to offer. When I say OUR, I am talking about every man, woman and child, regardless of race, creed, birthplace etc. in this fine land we all live in. This is what made Canada, this is what built Canada.

I'm only going to say one thing about the Idle No More issue. It is my personal belief and opinion, open the books. Because quite honestly I am disgusted at the stuff I see on some reserves. The way some families live compared to others.

Anyways that's my two cent's...I'll pay tax on that if you want me too...lol

Miigwetch

thanks for your reply and a honest one .. can you explain then why revenue canada says you are tax exempt.. i am really confused (not saying this in any smart remarks or anything just need to understand the situation better )
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bushbuck
Jan 13 2013, 07:53 PM
A little more info for everyone, this article speaks to comments within this thread.....First Nation Taxation

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/chelsea-vowel...246965925417366

certainly sheds a bit of light on the tax issue and love the title *L*

The Idiot's Guide to First Nations Taxation
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chessy
Jan 13 2013, 08:38 PM
Nimkii
Jan 13 2013, 10:27 PM
chessy
Jan 13 2013, 07:50 PM
his or hers first qoute is garbage fN are allowed tax exempt 
Since September 1, 2010, GST/HST registrant suppliers are allowed to credit status Indian purchasers at the time of sale with an amount equal to the 8% provincial part of the HST for qualifying off-reserve supplies of property or services. The Canada Revenue Agency (the CRA) processes registrant suppliers’ claims for a credit in respect of amounts that they have credited to status Indian purchasers at the point of sale.   by qualifying it has to have hst  already incorporated in the tax . basically if it has tax on it , it comes off  no mater where it is purchased

I'm going to chime in now...I'm FN, First Nations, Aboriginal...I'm not Indian, I'm not from India. I don't live on reserve, I pay income tax, sales tax and property tax,...yes Sales Tax, I don't live on reserve, therefore I have to pay it. I have paid a land transfer tax, twice. Before the HST I bought a new truck. I had it delivered to the reserve to avoid the GST portion only. PST I paid, because I don't live on reserve.

As for the Hunting and Fishing arguements. There are going to be those that will abuse the system, all races, creeds etc. And believe me, those that do abuse the system will be told and have been told.

I am glad to see the arguements on here. It shows that the people in OUR country, OUR Canada, love Canada and all it has to offer. When I say OUR, I am talking about every man, woman and child, regardless of race, creed, birthplace etc. in this fine land we all live in. This is what made Canada, this is what built Canada.

I'm only going to say one thing about the Idle No More issue. It is my personal belief and opinion, open the books. Because quite honestly I am disgusted at the stuff I see on some reserves. The way some families live compared to others.

Anyways that's my two cent's...I'll pay tax on that if you want me too...lol

Miigwetch

thanks for your reply and a honest one .. can you explain then why revenue canada says you are tax exempt.. i am really confused (not saying this in any smart remarks or anything just need to understand the situation better )

If we live on reserve or work on reserve then we are tax free, and it can be proven. Drivers License is usually what I was asked for when I lived on reserve and that was almost 20 years ago. For income tax purposes, the T4 will say whether we are tax exempt or not.
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Renegade
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Nimkii
Jan 13 2013, 10:27 PM
chessy
Jan 13 2013, 07:50 PM
his or hers first qoute is garbage fN are allowed tax exempt 
Since September 1, 2010, GST/HST registrant suppliers are allowed to credit status Indian purchasers at the time of sale with an amount equal to the 8% provincial part of the HST for qualifying off-reserve supplies of property or services. The Canada Revenue Agency (the CRA) processes registrant suppliers’ claims for a credit in respect of amounts that they have credited to status Indian purchasers at the point of sale.  by qualifying it has to have hst  already incorporated in the tax . basically if it has tax on it , it comes off  no mater where it is purchased

I'm going to chime in now...I'm FN, First Nations, Aboriginal...I'm not Indian, I'm not from India. I don't live on reserve, I pay income tax, sales tax and property tax,...yes Sales Tax, I don't live on reserve, therefore I have to pay it. I have paid a land transfer tax, twice. Before the HST I bought a new truck. I had it delivered to the reserve to avoid the GST portion only. PST I paid, because I don't live on reserve.

As for the Hunting and Fishing arguements. There are going to be those that will abuse the system, all races, creeds etc. And believe me, those that do abuse the system will be told and have been told.

I am glad to see the arguements on here. It shows that the people in OUR country, OUR Canada, love Canada and all it has to offer. When I say OUR, I am talking about every man, woman and child, regardless of race, creed, birthplace etc. in this fine land we all live in. This is what made Canada, this is what built Canada.

I'm only going to say one thing about the Idle No More issue. It is my personal belief and opinion, open the books. Because quite honestly I am disgusted at the stuff I see on some reserves. The way some families live compared to others.

Anyways that's my two cent's...I'll pay tax on that if you want me too...lol

Miigwetch

Great post. I think the idle no more campaign in and of itself has a lot of merit and is a worthy cause. The problems with the campaign is a lack of focus, there are too many issues swirling around the whole movement. Some of the demonstrations and blockades are going too far and I fear at some point someone is going to get hurt. First nations do lag behind non-natives in quality of life. Too many first nations people live in really poor conditions. I think the answer lies in integration. This is much different that assimilation which defiantely doesn't work. Become a part of Canadian society but keep your traditions and history alive and well like other ethnic groups. Living on reserves in areas that are not economically feasible makes no sense. Only when first nations can have ownership in their property, homes and lives will things change. The current system does not work. You can throw as much money at the problem as you like but it is not going to get any better. The vulture lawyers, accountants, consultants and in some cases high level band members skim so much off that the first nations people who need the help don't get it. I am not a fan of Harper but I also am not impessed with the liberal and NDP who seem to using this whole movement for photo op's and bashing Harper. Now with so many chiefs having different ideas on what direction to take it looks like this transformation is going to take a lot of twists and turns.
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Yes, Dobber I thought the article was quite informative and could shed light on the issue for some.

Rene...in reference to your latest post.....i think one huge problem is that there are too many ill informed people making decisions for First Nation's peoples. I am not referring to everyone having an opinion, that is fine, it is a still a free country :D

First Nation's have to develop intergovernmental policy and management regimes that will work for themselves and have the will to implement.

"QUOTE"
(I'm only going to say one thing about the Idle No More issue. It is my personal belief and opinion, open the books. Because quite honestly I am disgusted at the stuff I see on some reserves. The way some families live compared to others.)

I totally agree and further more this is one of the INM staple issues, calling for accountability and transparency from First Nation leadership. Miss Spence's action's although commendable in many people's minds, were never coordinated thru the INM movement from the start and actually her band audit discrepancies expose some of the very reasons the movement promotes change.




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First Nation's have to develop intergovernmental policy and management regimes that will work for themselves and have the will to implement


First nations do not need to duplicate what government we already have in Canada. We need to do away with the different tax treatments. Do away with different prices for tabacco, liquor and the various government management regimes in place to deal with the "laws for different ethnic groups". We need to do away with indian act. We need to do away with reservations. When we are all on the same page integration can happen. That is the only correct answer in my uninformed and humble opinion.
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Renegade
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Atikokan, Ontario
Canada's First Nations Debate - Globe & Mail.

This land does NOT belong to them.
Why do some people keep saying that it does?
Is it because that's what they want you to believe?
Well then the marketing campaign must be working.

Let's get this straight...

1. These people's ancestors did not just appear in North America
magically out of thin air one day 50,000 years ago.
They came in waves across the land/ice bridge from Asia .
What's more these waves in many case were not related groups of people.
They came from various places around North Eastern Asia and were from different genetic strains....
in other words the "natives of North America are not a homogenous group of people and more importantly....
They are immigrants too, like millions of immigrants today.

2. The idea that the "natives" were peaceful caretakers of the land or benevolent tenants couldn't
be further from the truth. The various tribes warred on each other constantly.
They were violent.
Want proof?
Ask the Huron's...oh that's right you can't.
The Iroquois wiped them out.
How about slavery that was rife among the first nation tribes until the Europeans came over
and freed the slaves and put an end to this "valued cultural tradition"?
Is slavery peaceful and humane?

3. The idea that we "stole" this land from them is also ridiculous.
A more technologically advanced and numerous culture invaded and conquered.
This is exactly what has been happening since the dawn of humanity all around the globe.
To say we "stole" their lands is just plain wrong.
That is akin to saying the Saxons should return England to the Angles.
Or maybe we should launch a campaign to have Roman descendants give Italy back to the Etruscans.

It is a nonsensical notion driven by the politically correct bleeding hearts on the left
and some intellectually deficient liberals, and it will continue to cost this country needless
and wasted billions and billions until we get some backbone and turn off the taps.

Are these people in trouble?
Yes.
Do they need help?
Yes.
Are they responsible enough to look after themselves and efficiently
spend the billions the tax payers give them?
Certainly not.

The only way to fix this situation is to bring them into society as equals.
They should be getting jobs and paying taxes like the rest of us because in reality,
they are no more special than any of the other hundred or more cultures that call Canada home.

Turn off the taps.
Do away with this "traditional use" and "cultural" nonsense.
Educate their children to become modern citizens, instead of finding their identity and
source of pride in some folks who occupied the land 15000 years ago.
Let them stand or fall on their own account
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Posted Image bushbuck
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Renegade
Jan 14 2013, 12:00 PM
Quote:
 
First Nation's have to develop intergovernmental policy and management regimes that will work for themselves and have the will to implement


First nations do not need to duplicate what government we already have in Canada. We need to do away with the different tax treatments. Do away with different prices for tabacco, liquor and the various government management regimes in place to deal with the "laws for different ethnic groups". We need to do away with indian act. We need to do away with reservations. When we are all on the same page integration can happen. That is the only correct answer in my uninformed and humble opinion.

I never said duplicate...you did.
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The Idle No More movement has no credibility or merit. Having said that the biggest issue they raise is that opponents are ignorant to their cause. It is true for the most part as most people could not even come close to articulating what Bill C-45 has within it (never mind actually reading it).

That goes for FN's as well unfortunately and they therefore have done a piss poor job articulating what they are even protesting.

It is not about that fool Spence. She has done more to hurt their cause than help it but since many FN's don't have a clue they are all behind her.

It is but a sympton of a much larger issue but if you get bothered by a road or rail blockade then best take the time to read about bill C-45 and form your own opinion. Indepenedent thought! A crazy concept I know but let's begin that movement. Forget about youtube, ,mainstream media, Huffington Post and discussion boards.

Only then will we have helpful dialogue on where to go from here.
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CanuckShooter
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Giscome, British Columbia
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Renegade
Jan 14 2013, 01:04 PM
Canada's First Nations Debate - Globe & Mail.

This land does NOT belong to them.
Why do some people keep saying that it does?
Is it because that's what they want you to believe?
Well then the marketing campaign must be working.

Let's get this straight...

1. These people's ancestors did not just appear in North America
magically out of thin air one day 50,000 years ago.
They came in waves across the land/ice bridge from Asia .
What's more these waves in many case were not related groups of people.
They came from various places around North Eastern Asia and were from different genetic strains....
in other words the "natives of North America are not a homogenous group of people and more importantly....
They are immigrants too, like millions of immigrants today.

2. The idea that the "natives" were peaceful caretakers of the land or benevolent tenants couldn't
be further from the truth. The various tribes warred on each other constantly.
They were violent.
Want proof?
Ask the Huron's...oh that's right you can't.
The Iroquois wiped them out.
How about slavery that was rife among the first nation tribes until the Europeans came over
and freed the slaves and put an end to this "valued cultural tradition"?
Is slavery peaceful and humane?

3. The idea that we "stole" this land from them is also ridiculous.
A more technologically advanced and numerous culture invaded and conquered.
This is exactly what has been happening since the dawn of humanity all around the globe.
To say we "stole" their lands is just plain wrong.
That is akin to saying the Saxons should return England to the Angles.
Or maybe we should launch a campaign to have Roman descendants give Italy back to the Etruscans.

It is a nonsensical notion driven by the politically correct bleeding hearts on the left
and some intellectually deficient liberals, and it will continue to cost this country needless
and wasted billions and billions until we get some backbone and turn off the taps.

Are these people in trouble?
Yes.
Do they need help?
Yes.
Are they responsible enough to look after themselves and efficiently
spend the billions the tax payers give them?
Certainly not.

The only way to fix this situation is to bring them into society as equals.
They should be getting jobs and paying taxes like the rest of us because in reality,
they are no more special than any of the other hundred or more cultures that call Canada home.

Turn off the taps.
Do away with this "traditional use" and "cultural" nonsense.
Educate their children to become modern citizens, instead of finding their identity and
source of pride in some folks who occupied the land 15000 years ago.
Let them stand or fall on their own account

I don't know how many times I've seen this absolutely disgusting garbage spread on the Internet!!!
:-(.

It doesn't matter "who was here first"...anyone educated in this country should know this, if you don't then go find out why they signed treaties with the people that were living here back then.

Kenniwick was found in Washington State, Norse people lived here once...it's the known history of the expansion of the human race in the America's.....and it has diddly squat to do with native status and treaties.

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Renegade
Member Avatar
Atikokan, Ontario
CanuckShooter
Jan 15 2013, 11:16 PM
Renegade
Jan 14 2013, 01:04 PM
Canada's First Nations Debate - Globe & Mail.

This land does NOT belong to them.
Why do some people keep saying that it does?
Is it because that's what they want you to believe?
Well then the marketing campaign must be working.

Let's get this straight...

1. These people's ancestors did not just appear in North America
magically out of thin air one day 50,000 years ago.
They came in waves across the land/ice bridge from Asia .
What's more these waves in many case were not related groups of people.
They came from various places around North Eastern Asia and were from different genetic strains....
in other words the "natives of North America are not a homogenous group of people and more importantly....
They are immigrants too, like millions of immigrants today.

2. The idea that the "natives" were peaceful caretakers of the land or benevolent tenants couldn't
be further from the truth. The various tribes warred on each other constantly.
They were violent.
Want proof?
Ask the Huron's...oh that's right you can't.
The Iroquois wiped them out.
How about slavery that was rife among the first nation tribes until the Europeans came over
and freed the slaves and put an end to this "valued cultural tradition"?
Is slavery peaceful and humane?

3. The idea that we "stole" this land from them is also ridiculous.
A more technologically advanced and numerous culture invaded and conquered.
This is exactly what has been happening since the dawn of humanity all around the globe.
To say we "stole" their lands is just plain wrong.
That is akin to saying the Saxons should return England to the Angles.
Or maybe we should launch a campaign to have Roman descendants give Italy back to the Etruscans.

It is a nonsensical notion driven by the politically correct bleeding hearts on the left
and some intellectually deficient liberals, and it will continue to cost this country needless
and wasted billions and billions until we get some backbone and turn off the taps.

Are these people in trouble?
Yes.
Do they need help?
Yes.
Are they responsible enough to look after themselves and efficiently
spend the billions the tax payers give them?
Certainly not.

The only way to fix this situation is to bring them into society as equals.
They should be getting jobs and paying taxes like the rest of us because in reality,
they are no more special than any of the other hundred or more cultures that call Canada home.

Turn off the taps.
Do away with this "traditional use" and "cultural" nonsense.
Educate their children to become modern citizens, instead of finding their identity and
source of pride in some folks who occupied the land 15000 years ago.
Let them stand or fall on their own account

I don't know how many times I've seen this absolutely disgusting garbage spread on the Internet!!!
:-(.

It doesn't matter "who was here first"...anyone educated in this country should know this, if you don't then go find out why they signed treaties with the people that were living here back then.

Kenniwick was found in Washington State, Norse people lived here once...it's the known history of the expansion of the human race in the America's.....and it has diddly squat to do with native status and treaties.

Of course you don't like this Canuckshooter. You have been against any type of discussion that would dare to challenge the status quo. I have heard and read many times that first nations feel they are caretakers of the land, that they were a peaceful society before we came and I have had some tell be that they were always here in the america's.

Instead of saying that that whole article is garbage, why not bring up some solid points as to why you think it is garbage.
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CanuckShooter
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Giscome, British Columbia
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Renegade
Jan 16 2013, 08:39 AM
CanuckShooter
Jan 15 2013, 11:16 PM
Renegade
Jan 14 2013, 01:04 PM
Canada's First Nations Debate - Globe & Mail.

This land does NOT belong to them.
Why do some people keep saying that it does?
Is it because that's what they want you to believe?
Well then the marketing campaign must be working.

Let's get this straight...

1. These people's ancestors did not just appear in North America
magically out of thin air one day 50,000 years ago.
They came in waves across the land/ice bridge from Asia .
What's more these waves in many case were not related groups of people.
They came from various places around North Eastern Asia and were from different genetic strains....
in other words the "natives of North America are not a homogenous group of people and more importantly....
They are immigrants too, like millions of immigrants today.

2. The idea that the "natives" were peaceful caretakers of the land or benevolent tenants couldn't
be further from the truth. The various tribes warred on each other constantly.
They were violent.
Want proof?
Ask the Huron's...oh that's right you can't.
The Iroquois wiped them out.
How about slavery that was rife among the first nation tribes until the Europeans came over
and freed the slaves and put an end to this "valued cultural tradition"?
Is slavery peaceful and humane?

3. The idea that we "stole" this land from them is also ridiculous.
A more technologically advanced and numerous culture invaded and conquered.
This is exactly what has been happening since the dawn of humanity all around the globe.
To say we "stole" their lands is just plain wrong.
That is akin to saying the Saxons should return England to the Angles.
Or maybe we should launch a campaign to have Roman descendants give Italy back to the Etruscans.

It is a nonsensical notion driven by the politically correct bleeding hearts on the left
and some intellectually deficient liberals, and it will continue to cost this country needless
and wasted billions and billions until we get some backbone and turn off the taps.

Are these people in trouble?
Yes.
Do they need help?
Yes.
Are they responsible enough to look after themselves and efficiently
spend the billions the tax payers give them?
Certainly not.

The only way to fix this situation is to bring them into society as equals.
They should be getting jobs and paying taxes like the rest of us because in reality,
they are no more special than any of the other hundred or more cultures that call Canada home.

Turn off the taps.
Do away with this "traditional use" and "cultural" nonsense.
Educate their children to become modern citizens, instead of finding their identity and
source of pride in some folks who occupied the land 15000 years ago.
Let them stand or fall on their own account

I don't know how many times I've seen this absolutely disgusting garbage spread on the Internet!!!
:-(.

It doesn't matter "who was here first"...anyone educated in this country should know this, if you don't then go find out why they signed treaties with the people that were living here back then.

Kenniwick was found in Washington State, Norse people lived here once...it's the known history of the expansion of the human race in the America's.....and it has diddly squat to do with native status and treaties.

Of course you don't like this Canuckshooter. You have been against any type of discussion that would dare to challenge the status quo. I have heard and read many times that first nations feel they are caretakers of the land, that they were a peaceful society before we came and I have had some tell be that they were always here in the america's.

Instead of saying that that whole article is garbage, why not bring up some solid points as to why you think it is garbage.

I did already....it's doesn't matter 'who was here first'...

The rest of it doesn't even justify a response because the vast majority of it is just designed to foster more anti native sentiment.

Lets look a little closer at number 3:

3. The idea that we "stole" this land from them is also ridiculous.
A more technologically advanced and numerous culture invaded and conquered.
This is exactly what has been happening since the dawn of humanity all around the globe.
To say we "stole" their lands is just plain wrong.




1. History lessons told us that the Metis had settlements along the Red River...when they came home from the buffalo hunt white settlers had moved onto their land and displaced them....stolen lands no doubt.

2. History lessons taught us that the vast majority of the Bands in British Columbia have no treaties signed....expropriation without compensation? or stolen lands? or just unceded territory because they are still negotiating??

3. How many different Bands of aboriginals are there in Canada?? How many lessons did you get in school that taught us "a more technologically advanced and numerous culture invaded and conquered"?? OR, how many actual armed conflicts between aboriginals groups and government troops actually happened in Canadian history in relation to the number of aboriginal groups?


This is some of our proud history of how aboriginals were treated in Canada...you could type till your fingers bled with this type of REAL history....but here is just a little for your reading pleasure.

Catholic priests and nuns sexually assaulted, beat, and separated aboriginal children from their families for years. Aboriginal people were not permitted to vote until the 1950s. Natives resident on reserves were required to have permission slips from the 'indian agent' to leave the reserves. [containment camps?] at least up until 1932. For a time in Canada it was illegal for natives to hold a potlatch or pow wow...and they could be jailed for dancing. Natives that chose to fight for Canada in WWII had to give up their 'indian status' in order to join the Canadian Forces. When they returned to Canada after the war they were not provided the same housing and benefit opportunities that non-natives were because of their race.


The point is....the status quo is the law of our land....and some of our laws are there due to the gross and inhumane treatment Canadas aboriginal endured over the years. We were educated about all of this, and discussion on aboriginal issues shouldn't be focused on creating more misconceptions and spreading more lies.
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revrnd
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Jan 16 2013, 08:39 AM
I have heard and read many times that first nations feel they are caretakers of the land, that they were a peaceful society before we came and I have had some tell be that they were always here in the america's.

If the FN feel they have more of a connection w/ the land & water than the rest of us & are indeed caretakers of "mother earth", why did a member of the Curve Lake reserve abandon a Suburban in the middle of nowhere several miles from Highway 28?

During the middle of the snowmobiling season we found a older Suburban @ the intersection of the Pencil Lake & Hadlington roads. There was a couple of feet of snow around it. The truck was unlocked & the registration was in the glovebox. The owner's address was @ Curve Lake. Passed the paperwork on to the OPP in Apsley.
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