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Fall Hunt a go
Topic Started: Mar 20 2008, 09:00 AM (811 Views)
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Fenelon Falls

OFAH FILE: 842
March 20, 2008
For Immediate Release

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New fall wild turkey hunt a "go"
M.N.R. Minister, staff confirm fall season at O.F.A.H. Annual Conference
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MISSISSAUGA– Before an audience of several hundred outdoor enthusiasts, Ministry of Natural Resources (M.N.R.) Minister Donna Cansfield announced that there will be a fall wild turkey hunting season in designated Wildlife Management Units in Ontario, beginning this year.

The Minister gave the welcome news on March 14, during her speech to the delegation of the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters (O.F.A.H.) 80th Annual General Meeting and Fish and Wildlife Conference. Several key M.N.R. staff were on hand for the Minister's presentation to O.F.A.H. members.

"The O.F.A.H. is delighted that Minister Cansfield chose the O.F.A.H. Conference to confirm that there will be a fall wild turkey hunt, as promised last year by former Minister Ramsay," said O.F.A.H. Executive Director Mike Reader. "Our members and other outdoor enthusiasts are pleased that the M.N.R. is moving ahead with the regulations in time for a 2008 fall season. We are also pleased that three additional Wildlife Management Units will enjoy spring wild turkey seasons this year."

The M.N.R. posted the long awaited wild turkey management plan and regulations to the Environmental Bill of Rights (EBR) registry for public comment in mid-January. On March 14, new spring wild turkey hunting seasons in St. Joseph Island, Bracebridge and Minden were announced on the Ministry's website.

Wild Turkey Facts:

* The O.F.A.H. initiated the highly successful program to bring back the extirpated eastern wild turkey to Ontario more than twenty years ago.
* There has been a hunting season since 1987, and during that time wild turkey populations and hunting opportunities have continually increased. Moderate estimates place Ontario's turkey population at well over 70,000 birds.
* The wild turkey is a popular game bird, even though hunters require special training and certification to obtain the designation on their hunting licence.
* Since 1987, the O.F.A.H. has trained 78,300 turkey hunters in seminars held across Ontario.
* Last year, wild turkey licence sales contributed $936,789 to provincial revenues.

With over 83,000 members and 655 member clubs, the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters is the leading fishing, hunting and conservation organization in Ontario, and the voice of anglers and hunters.
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Thats why i only bought 1 tag this spring, i'm not sure how they will run it?
What units?
I know we were on the proposed list where i hunt, but to be honest unless it still stays at a total of 2 turkeys, i really don't think the population in my area is good enough yet. I'm not sure where they got there counts from but its not in my township.
1 tom in spring and 1 either sex in the fall would be nice.

Bryan
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Should make for an interesting fall hunt near deer season? If its open that late in the fall that is.
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I don't think we really needed a fall season for turkey. Lots of other seasons in the fall to keep everybody busy. The only reintroduced game in Ontario and we need 2 seasons? And if shooting hens is going to be part of this then the population will slow its growth big time.
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It better not be right near the rut when i'm out with the bow, i'll tell you that!!
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onmedic,l think they were talking the last week of oct. and the first week in nov.
two weeks only.
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I read somewhere it was proposed for the last two weeks of October right up to the weekend before the controlled shotgun season for deer (first full week of Nov). I'll have to check.
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Sorry guies im not in favor of a fall hunt here.
in the fall i can litterly walk up to flocks of 70 birds and i know what some guies are going to do.
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Fall for DEER hunting all the MNR is thinking of is $$$$$$$$$$$$$
They are just hoping that people will buy tags thinking there going to shoot a bird from there tree stand. Good luck drawing on them.
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:allright: l agree, turkeys look up,it would be hard to draw on them. :allright:
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Your right, it all comes down to $$$$$$$$$$$$
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I'm also not in favour of the Fall hunt as of yet. Some people are just going to take advantage of the large flocks. As for it running in conjuction with the bow season for deer the deer will soon learn that they are not the targets. Also as far as I know the fall season is for bow only but I might be wrong ( please correct me if I am). I'm sure not going to be brother this year or any other for that matter.

Everything with the MNR always boils down to the $$$$$$$.

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Are you freaking kidding me. Thats the sweetest time for bowhunting around here. That week right before the shotgun shoot is the best, i take that week off just for bowhunting.
Its always our best time to see big bucks, really come to calling then. I"m going to be pissed if thats right. Then again, it should push all the deer to my properties, we are the only ones allowed on.
Still, that is just stupid.
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I'm not in favor of a fall turkey hunt either.

It's just trouble waiting to happen, if you ask me.
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LoneWolf
Mar 20 2008, 10:41 PM
I'm not in favor of a fall turkey hunt either.

It's just trouble waiting to happen, if you ask me.

For sure, especially if its the same time frame as deer. It leaves the door wide open for an increase in accidents.
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i can see the new law now, hunter orange to and from your stand while bowhunting for deer because there is a gun season going on :bang:
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Leave it to the goverment to screw bow hunting up. :crazy: Maybe it should be the last 2 weeks of September so we can get warmed up!!!!!!! :archer: -Crazy 8
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Don't forget the best part.....turkey hunter's will be allowed too use DOGS....so all them wmu"s that you were not allowed to hunt deer in with dog's will now be over run with loose dog's looking for turkey's...YA RIGHT!!!...i like to know what the MNR was thinking when they allowed that.. :crazy: ..and right at a time when the pre rut/rut is about to begin...and i'm sure we all believe that this turkey hunt is suppose to help controll the #'s(at least that is what i think we were led to believe...i think)...but now i'm hearing/reading that it is not going to have any effect on the pop's..atleast that is what a few in the know are saying at another forum alot of us frequent ....i think a fall hunt is all about the $$$$...and evan though its extra hunting opertunity's for some (and i'm all for more opertunity's to hunt)...i think a fall hunt is going to be disaterous for the hunter that only has public land to hunt.....


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Quote:
 
i think a fall hunt is going to be disaterous for the hunter that only has public land to hunt.....


That's why I'm glad that I have my own woodlot as well as my lease to hunt on. I don't see many birds on my woodlot because it gets kinda wet in there during, and after the spring thaw and sometimes even in the fall if we get alot of rain. I never got a picture of a turkey on my trail cams for 4 fall seasons (since I've owned trail cams). Sure, we do have turkeys in the area, but you gotta hunt the higher land as well as close to farm fields, and I don't have farm fields on, or anywhere near my properties and I can honestly say that I'm glad for that.

I'll be the first to say that when it comes to turkeys I still have alot to learn. But as mentioned above, I feel for those that hunt public property. I have had my share of problems with a certain group of hunters during the deer hunt while hunting one of my favorite public properties I sometimes bowhunt cause it's close to home. Now we will have these same guys in the woods totting shotguns while there are bowhunters in treestands bowhunting for deer, and that's what really scares me. Like I said, I'm glad that I own and lease my hunting properties.
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Terrym
Mar 20 2008, 01:47 PM
I don't think we really needed a fall season for turkey. Lots of other seasons in the fall to keep everybody busy. The only reintroduced game in Ontario and we need 2 seasons? And if shooting hens is going to be part of this then the population will slow its growth big time.

yes terrym, I have to second that opinion. When things are getting good. Someone has to screw it up.
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Look at it the other way though. If everyone is deer hunting, because it is so close to the rut, who is going to be turkey hunting? If no one is turkey hunting during the fall season maybe they will have to look at the date and make some changes.
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I'd be a glass half full kind of guy to if i had your two bucks in the bag :sick:
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onmedic, how have you survived bow season with the duck, goose, bird, rabbit (with dog), coyote, and groundhog hunters out there??????

These fall turkey hunters sound like real nasty guys!
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Man, I hope they don't put it near the last week of Oct! Hopefully I don't see flocks of birds on my properties at that time! I certainly don't need the gunners running around hunting birds because they don't want to pick up a bow and be patient.
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I just feel that turkey hunters already have a nice long season that doesn't conflict with anything else, a liberal bag limit of 2 birds already. Who asked for a fall season anyway? The turkey program was working perfectly with more and more units opening up as they expanded their range, if you start shooting hens in the fall that will grind to a halt. Typical MNR meddling. If it works , leave it alone instead of trying to justify your salaries. Deer range is the same as turkey range. I guarantee you that there will be incidents because of this.
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Terrym
Mar 22 2008, 10:59 AM
I just feel that turkey hunters already have a nice long season that doesn't conflict with anything else, a liberal bag limit of 2 birds already. Who asked for a fall season anyway? The turkey program was working perfectly with more and more units opening up as they expanded their range, if you start shooting hens in the fall that will grind to a halt. Typical MNR meddling. If it works , leave it alone instead of trying to justify your salaries. Deer range is the same as turkey range. I guarantee you that there will be incidents because of this.

I think the theory is that if you keep shooting all the males, all that is left is an inbalance in the population and the fall season is to balance things out. But can't that be done in the spring too? btw I dont think there will be many hunters doing this fall hunt at all. There simply are too many things going on at that time so really it is just an extra dollar grab. If you do the full deer hunt, are you really wanting to go out the week before and be running through the woods?
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kind of an unwritten rule that you don't shoot a nursing doe. Shooting a hen in the spring when she is possibly tending to a nest of up to a dozen eggs isn't good as well. Also because she is sitting on that nest and could more easily be bushwhacked while doing so doesn't make it very sportsmanlike. Same concept as sows when we still had a spring bear hunt.

As far as fall hunting tactics go there is pure ignoarance on that as well. I mean why doesn't onmedic or billert wait a week and shoot a deer with the gun? Well becuase they choose to have a "HUNT" whihc is enjoybale to them. I think the us vs. them on "gunners" versus bowhunters is just as ridiculous. But in any event while you may be able to sneek up on a big flock occasionally and blast away why would you? Can you not duck hunt by sneaking up on a pond edge and blast a bunch of sitting ducks? Why don't duck hunters employ that tactic? It's the traditions of the hunt and how it's done that makes it enjoyable for those who CHOOSE to do it.


I've never fall hunted and so I can say my experience gives me squat as far as knowing what it's really about. That's whay when I sit in a rural garage of S.E. Ohio in the spring after a morning of turkey hunting, speaking with a room full of die hard bowhunters, I ask them. Most of them admit that they do very little fall turkey hunting as Billert eluded to might be the case. They also laugh at the controversary and say it is a non-issue. They are happy and proud that there is a tradition of fall turkey hunting. This is from one of the most well repected big buck hunting ground in North America. Again, these are diehard bowhunters.

Why is some of us here in Ontario who know sqaut about it so quick to b!tch and complain about getting an additonal hunt opportunity?

Aren't we still b!tching about losing hunting opportunities?
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If you came and hunted on the public property I'm talking about for a day or two, you would know what I'm talking about.

Sure there are some guys that hunt there who respect other hunters, but then there's also a certain group that hunts in there who don't care if they sit 15 feet from you, and they do that when they want and every chance they get. Once again, I'm not talking about ALL the guys who hunt in there, just this certain group who don't care that there are other hunters already hunting a trail or field.

I have put my treestands up watching a trail, and these guys know very well that I am there. What do they do, they cut other bowhunters off and hunt the same trails other hunters are watching.

If guys want a fall turkey season in their areas, all the more power to them. Like I said, I'm happy that I don't have fields on my properties.

Would I sign a petition to stop the fall turkey hunt... No, that I would not do.

Like I said, I'am glad I own hunting property.
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Would I sign a petition to stop the fall turkey hunt... No that I would not do


You are not AGAINST a fall hunt then. That is great.

What you described has nothing to do with fall turkey hunting. What you decribed has everyhting to do with idiots who also hunt. That's why the deviseness between hunters who choose to hunt different species or use different tactics such as gun or bow is so harmful to our sport.

I hunt all kinds of public land for deer, turkey, birds and now bear. I know excatly what you're talking about Lonewolf. Some of the private properties I hunt are even worse because the competition is concentrated. Agin, this is everyhting to do with idiots and nothing to do with fall turkey hunting....
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Quote:
 
turkey program was working perfectly with more and more units opening up as they expanded their range, if you start shooting hens in the fall that will grind to a halt. Typical MNR meddling. If it works , leave it alone instead of trying to justify your salaries. Deer range is the same as turkey range. I guarantee you that there will be incidents because of this.



Not sure how you can say it will grind to a halt? How do you know this? In other regions where there is fall hunting it's not the case? In any event the MNR has declared the wild turkey fully populated across all it's original habitat and beyond. They do not have an interest right now in expnading hunting opportunities in new WMUs. They do it as the birds dictate but the stop of trap and transfer confrims this. They are backtracking on Manitoulin it seems, they will not introduce any further north then where they are now.

In your original post you siad it will "slow" growth big time. That means it will still grow but just not near as fast. We went from 35,000 birds to 80,000 birds in a few years. Man, is slowing that down a bad thing????
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OntGobbler
Mar 22 2008, 01:47 PM
Quote:
 
turkey program was working perfectly with more and more units opening up as they expanded their range, if you start shooting hens in the fall that will grind to a halt. Typical MNR meddling. If it works , leave it alone instead of trying to justify your salaries. Deer range is the same as turkey range. I guarantee you that there will be incidents because of this.



Not sure how you can say it will grind to a halt? How do you know this? In other regions where there is fall hunting it's not the case? In any event the MNR has declared the wild turkey fully populated across all it's original habitat and beyond. They do not have an interest right now in expnading hunting opportunities in new WMUs. They do it as the birds dictate but the stop of trap and transfer confrims this. They are backtracking on Manitoulin it seems, they will not introduce any further north then where they are now.

In your original post you siad it will "slow" growth big time. That means it will still grow but just not near as fast. We went from 35,000 birds to 80,000 birds in a few years. Man, is slowing that down a bad thing????

Good post. You make sound arguments. I also would not stop the fall hunt if asked but surely would not have voted for it. As for shooting hens I do stick to that and have no desire to start taking a 10lb bird that in some cases I could have killed with a rock. I also feel that reducing the hen count would slow down the expansion of the herd. I don't really care if we are at original range limits, the geography has changed greatly since they last lived here and there is now more suitable range to be filled. My vote would be for a larger herd, more range and Spring hunting oppurtunities over a second hunt.
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Gotta agree that you do have some good points, OntGobber.
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Thanks guys, I appreciate your open-mindedness (is that a word? lol)

I agree about increasing ranges. I am not so sure they know what the natural range of the wild turkey should be. I wonder if they weren't run out back at the turn of the century but managed the way they are now, would I have native wild turkey here in the North Bay area? They were supposedly not native to wmu 53 but we have a hunt there this year. Birds seem to find thier way there and prosper.

Snow levels in Barrie area year after year confirm they are fine with that issue. There's plenty of good habitat around the near north regions. I also think more trap and transfer from existing huntable wmu's would be good as well.

It's about the hunt for me and not how much meat I get. I know guys who goose hunt for the fun and enjoyment and don't eat the meat. Geese are like big pigeons now there is so many. Most people don't take issue with guys going out for a good goose shoot even though they may not want to eat them. For me I look forward to a fall hunt for the different style it brings. I have had a flock come by me in the deer stand kee keeing and purring. It would be something to bust up a flock, sit down, start calling and evenatually have that flock calling back as they re-assembel to your location. Waiting for the right shot with all thos eyes coming in and the noise level rising as every bird sounds his or her way in from different directions. Extremely exciting I am told.

I wouldn't be doing that if the guy I share the property with is in bowhunting anymore than I would go in bowhunting if his truck is there already. One guy camoflauged against a tree calling a bunch of turkeys is no more pressure to those deer we are hunting either. The deer are used to hearing turkeys. The one shot from my gun is far less that the dozens I hear from the duck and goose hunters a few hundred yards away at the feild or river edge. No issue with fall turkey hunting my deer properties.
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I think if we were to pull your socks down we would likely see 2" spurs right? :cheers:

I think the MNR not relocating flocks has more to do with no funds than any management goal. I also think its a shame that they aren't seeding Manitoulin as its ideal range. My understanding of that is its being opposed by anti hunters who use the "traditional range" as their argument which I guess is working. I also don't think they really know what the actual range was accurately. We are now hearing of birds up at my deer camp near Dunchurch ( WMU 49) and they are pushing further North I hear. I think they can live anywhere a deer does and eventually will. Nature hates a void and fills it quickly. Good luck this spring .
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Thanks Terry. I was just thinking of that scenario again and the comment made against using dogs.The concept as it was explained to me in this:

You come up on a flock feeding in a feild. You could 1. get in front and wait for them to feed by and balst a bird. effective but maybe not as much fun as the alternative of busting them up and calling them back. Problem is you try running out into the feild to scatter them and instead as soon as you take off they all run togther or fly in the same direction. Argh! Now you have them still all togtehr just not where you are. A good tukrey dog will do this for you. The dog will run out and bust the flock. More likely it can be done to send the birds running and flying in every direction. Now they are all broke up and want to get back together.

using dogs like this is hardly like running digs "pushing" the bush and tonguing away. It's a controlled scatter that might take a few seconds. Once that's done I believ they put the dog in a blind or bag (kind of like a duck dog) and it's job is done other than to sit still and quiet.

Oh and my spurs are only 1 1/4 at most! :cheers:
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OntGobbler
Mar 22 2008, 01:33 PM
Thanks Terry. I was just thinking of that scenario again and the comment made against using dogs.The concept as it was explained to me in this:

You come up on a flock feeding in a feild. You could 1. get in front and wait for them to feed by and balst a bird. effective but maybe not as much fun as the alternative of busting them up and calling them back. Problem is you try running out into the feild to scatter them and instead as soon as you take off they all run togther or fly in the same direction. Argh! Now you have them still all togtehr just not where you are. A good tukrey dog will do this for you. The dog will run out and bust the flock. More likely it can be done to send the birds running and flying in every direction. Now they are all broke up and want to get back together.

using dogs like this is hardly like running digs "pushing" the bush and tonguing away. It's a controlled scatter that might take a few seconds. Once that's done I believ they put the dog in a blind or bag (kind of like a duck dog) and it's job is done other than to sit still and quiet.

Oh and my spurs are only 1 1/4 at most! :cheers:

You have some good points, but I still don't want turkey hunters in my bush when I am bowhunting deer. Just look at the technique described above. How is that conducive to bowhunting deer? It's absolutely NOT conducive at at all! From my experience most hunters are nice and most of them are jerks (protective, territorial - and yes I know that statement makes no sense), I'd just rather see less of them in the bush and I think most hunters would agree with that. I don't like the increased odds of seeing hunters at all and I do realize that there are coyote and small game, etc. but they just don't appear to be as tempting as a flock of turkeys wide open in a field to most hunters. Plus they are new and people wont know how to hunt them at the start. So you're going to see increased problems with trespassers and run and gunners in addition to the ways in which you describe and all the other junk that comes with a new season.

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Terrym
Mar 22 2008, 01:18 PM
I think if we were to pull your socks down we would likely see 2" spurs right? :cheers:

I think the MNR not relocating flocks has more to do with no funds than any management goal. I also think its a shame that they aren't seeding Manitoulin as its ideal range. My understanding of that is its being opposed by anti hunters who use the "traditional range" as their argument which I guess is working. I also don't think they really know what the actual range was accurately. We are now hearing of birds up at my deer camp near Dunchurch ( WMU 49) and they are pushing further North I hear. I think they can live anywhere a deer does and eventually will. Nature hates a void and fills it quickly. Good luck this spring .

Yes I can see them as far as North Bay, they'll have plenty of great habitat if they can endure the snow and that would be one of the best places to hunt some dandy gobblers, in the big woods.
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