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| Final Fantasy; The Greatest RPG Ever Made | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 11 2005, 06:39 PM (2,537 Views) | |
| Trippy Skippin Tomato | Jan 28 2009, 04:44 AM Post #101 |
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TOTALLY SEXY GAMER DEMON GOLFER
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FFFFFF You have Tactics Ogre? Do you mean the one on GBA or the one on PS1? Because if it's PS1, you have no right to have played that when I haven't, and I DEMAND you send me your copy. |
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| Slappy | Jan 28 2009, 09:51 AM Post #102 |
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New and Improved
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Well it's my cousin's, but yes the one on PS1. I loved that game. I beat it twice I think. I'm sure he still has it somewhere, but the case got sat on, same thing happened with his Breath of Fire 3 case... He's clumsy. CD is fine I think. I haven't played it in years. Oh, and yeah I meant Tactics Ogre haha, it was late when I posted. |
![]() Xantar: And for your information, I didn't call on any minions. They got into this on their own, and they seem to be having a blast. Marci: Screw you too, I'm not your minion. Xantar: Also, Makokam is not my minion. Just thought I'd point that out.
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| Skaerin | Feb 13 2009, 10:34 PM Post #103 |
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Summoner
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Inserts love for Final Fantasy XI!!! I'm so obsessed with that game. |
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| Malagossa | Feb 28 2009, 08:11 PM Post #104 |
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Eternally Dreaming
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Ok going to try to put this into words here. I love final fantasy 7. Like shamelessly, like a fan boy. Fuck whatever you have to say about it. I really don't care if you think less of me for it. If you feel like my choice for my favorite final fantasy is in poor taste. Regardless its the only one that leaves a real lasting impression to me. I love it despite the plot holes, fruit loops, character designs. When it came out I was in the 7th grade and it was the most amazing game I ever played up to that point in time. It was "dramatis personae". Its so freaking epic from the music to the motorcycle chase. To the evil villain lurking around the corner, and the enveloping omnipresent government eye. The confused main character, melodramatically spazzing out. I love all that shit. I ate it hook, line, and sinker. I love how retro it is in hindsight, full of cheesy one liners and awful character animations. Anyone playing that game without knowing about Aeris' death was shocked to hell it happened. Then I mourned her loss deeply....on a video game character! We can talk about whatever games are better. Even games that came out before, or even influenced this one. But the game should be judged by the other games. The idea is to hit your stride late in the game right? So these games should be improving/evolving over time. I think FF7 is the best one, and it put the bar pretty high with the story. I can't think of another FF where a character so central to the story dies in such a way. Edited by Malagossa, Mar 1 2009, 11:32 AM.
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| Xantar | Mar 1 2009, 11:41 AM Post #105 |
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Not Jeff Probst
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Well, since you've given me permission, I think I will do just that. Especially since you've just admitted that your taste in art and videogames hasn't evolved since 7th grade. Seriously. You're like an abused wife. "It has plot holes and bad character animations and really cheesy writing and some of the gameplay mechanics are kind of a step back from games that came before. But when it hits an emotional note, it's soooooo gooooooooooooood! *weepy eyes*" Clearly, anything else I might have to say to you about the series is just a waste of electronic letters, so I'm going to move on. Did you guys hear that they're releasing the sequel to FF IV on the Wii? FF IV, you will recall, is the one that was known as Final Fantasy II on the SNES over here in the United States. It had Cecil the black knight who later became a white knight (or maybe he was a paladin. I forget). Anyway, Square made a sequel for it on mobile phone released only in Japan. And now it's coming to the Wii. Which leaves me with three general reactions: 1. A port of a mobile phone game? Ewwwww... 2. I didn't know FF IV had room for a sequel. 3. If it's any good, I'm getting it. FF IV was one of the better in the series. |
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PureVideoGames — Made From Only the Finest Ingredients Launched September 12, 2004 Xantarcube: Dragon, I need you to render a thief. She should be a 15-year old girl with ninja-like abilities and a knife. Try to give her a badass pose, too. Dragon of DTT: Ok. How's this? http://www.purevideogames.net/images/Character_Art/thief_full.jpg Mortal Kombat: Dragon. Wins. L33tality! Dragon of DTT: Don't complain. Buy a hooker. Xantarcube: What am I going to do with a hooker? Dragon of DTT: Wii Sports. Shadyshark: but adrienne may be pregnant Shadyshark: or have cancer Shadyshark: she's hoping for cancer Seriously. Even I'm in my signature. Fix yours. | |
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| Malagossa | Mar 1 2009, 05:59 PM Post #106 |
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Eternally Dreaming
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I'll give you that one Xantar...touche. I normally wont hit a sentimental note, but I was feeling particularly nostalgic last night. Guess it must of been my time of the month |
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| Trippy Skippin Tomato | Mar 4 2009, 04:20 PM Post #107 |
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TOTALLY SEXY GAMER DEMON GOLFER
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I liked FF7 the first time I played it, back in 9th grade or so. Then I looked back at it about a year later and wondered what the fuck I had been thinking. I will buy FF4: The After if it's halfway decent, because I liked FF4, and still like it. If it's anything like that terrible fuck remake for the DS, I'll avoid it like Black Plague though. |
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| Malagossa | Mar 4 2009, 06:15 PM Post #108 |
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Eternally Dreaming
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I've played FF7 within the past year or so and found it mostly enjoyable. Again there is some retro sentimentality at work here that makes me feel partial to this particular title. I tried to put it into words before, but it still came out all wrong. Lets just say that FF7 isn't merely the sum of its parts. Almost any aspect of the game play can be taken out of context, and that scrutiny is to the games detriment. Xantar said it best though
I think therein lies some of the things that makes this title so distinctly different. The characters mattered and had substance. Every main character after (in my opinion) is merely an understudy of Cloud. Squall was distant, emotionally challenged, and not easily relatable to the player. I didn't enjoy following his character until late in the game. Which brings us to Zidane, Tidus, and Vaan. All of these characters equally androgynous. Personally I'd rather these main characters to have been girls. I think they all could have used a small dose of gumption. Again, they also bear striking resemblance to Cloud. In the parlance of our times however, Cloud is cooler than the rest. I will add a little more to these thoughts later.... Oh yea and Xantar in hindsight. I still think what you said was funny and kind of on point. I was feeling a bit zealous and moody in my opinions. But I want to know how it feels to call someone an abused housewife for expressing his favoritism for a certain video game? Maybe I am a bit old for these games. But I do love a good internet trolling sometimes. Nothing like trying to ruffle some feathers, eh ol boy? Edited by Malagossa, Mar 4 2009, 08:03 PM.
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| Slappy | Mar 4 2009, 07:47 PM Post #109 |
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New and Improved
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I won't reiterate my favor toward FF7 because its unneeded. I will reiterate that I feel like if Sony remade this game for PS3 or Xbox or even managed to put it on the PSP they could fix so many of the problems people have found with it, which are mostly pointed toward translation errors which resulted in some plot holes and the such. There were also just some plot holes in general which maybe they realize now and could fix, or have already fixed with all the amendments to the game they've released. I can't argue against the people who dislike FF7 for those reaosns because they're right, I simply overlook them now because I couldn't comprehend them when I was younger, but I think a lot of problems could be solved with a remake that fixed things. That's just my opinion. |
![]() Xantar: And for your information, I didn't call on any minions. They got into this on their own, and they seem to be having a blast. Marci: Screw you too, I'm not your minion. Xantar: Also, Makokam is not my minion. Just thought I'd point that out.
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| Malagossa | Mar 4 2009, 08:54 PM Post #110 |
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Eternally Dreaming
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Agreed Slappy. I don't see a little problem with a bit of praise for FF7. I mean honestly, the guts of the game are good. The character concept designs, the neo-modern world environment, and the ambitious plot line all had loads of depth and real substance. Besides the CGI movies, I think the FF7 spin-offs are very sub par. If there were to be a remake, it would have have to be better than the original in every single way. Better Plot Better Graphics Better Music Better character design Let me stress every facet of the game play should be dramatically improved. Mostly to even remotely justify doing such a thing, let alone impressing diehards enough to promote the game. Plus the fact remains that a lot of content would have to be added. The game as a remake wouldn't ever mirror the original title (although that would be neat). Furthermore we're going on the incentive that we are fixing whats broken. But what was so broken besides the graphics? To make the generational platform jump you'd have to introduce voices, and things like open environment real time combat, to really open up the graphical performance. Its a vast undertaking to do it the right way. The wrong way is much more likely, and not to mention easily achieved. Edited by Malagossa, Mar 4 2009, 08:55 PM.
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| Xantar | Mar 5 2009, 08:55 AM Post #111 |
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Not Jeff Probst
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Well, for one thing the materia system was pretty stupid. I'm actually not one of those people who immediately hated FF VII, but the more I played and got into it, the more I realized that it was fundamentally very flawed. And it took me a long time to come to grips with that because I was a long time fan of the Final Fantasy series and I LOVED FF VI (still do. I just played it and found it to be just as good as I remembered). Anyway, I was talking about the materia system. The thing is I thought it was a brilliant system for the first six hours or so. But then I realized that it went way too far. Even fundamental abilities like "Steal" were made into materia. Think about it. Yuffie the thief is inherently incapable of stealing unless she has the right materia. Meanwhile, you could make Barrett steal stuff from monsters if you really wanted to. So basically, the characters were just walking materia slots and the only difference between them was their limit breaks and the strength of the Fight command. The materia system was kind of a neat idea, but it went way too far. You want another example of something broken in the game? The golden chocobo quest is probably the most poorly designed quest in RPG history. In case you don't remember, this involved breeding the right kind of chocobos with each other to produce different colored ones. The problem was even with the right pairing, you only had a random chance of getting the correct one afterward (1 out of 7, I think) and you had to go through three rounds of breeding to get the golden chocobo (if your chance at each round is 1 out of 7, that means your chance of a golden chocobo is 1 out of 343). So what happens if your chocobo breeding produces the wrong color? You had to start all over again by either capturing new chocobos or (more likely) restarting your game to try again. Any game mechanic that relies on that level of trial and error is fundamentally broken. And the worst part about it was the whole point of getting the golden chocobo is to go find one materia which is conveniently placed in such a way that not even the airship can get to it (I think it was the Bahamut materia). I can go on (and don't even get Skippy started). But here's my point: whenever I or anybody else points out these flaws in the game that are pretty much inarguable, the response from fans is always something like, "Yeah, now that I think about it, you're right. That gameplay mechanic was dumb. But it's so emotional and the story meant so much to me when I first played it in middle school." Normally, I wouldn't mind if somebody liked a game for its story despite massive gameplay flaws. I'm a fan of Killer 7, for crying out loud. But think about what it means to say that a story is great because it moved you when you were in seventh grade. You know what else moved me when I was in seventh grade? Robocop 3. But now I look back at that movie and realize it was utter trash. You just can't evaluate a piece of art or entertainment based on how it made you feel when you weren't even a legal adult yet. I wonder whether you liked Advent Children. I seem to remember reading somewhere that you didn't like it, and that makes me wonder whether you would like FF VII if you played it for the first time today. You think Cloud was kind of a whiny, self-involved bitch in Advent Children? Well, he was in FF VII too. You think the plot was confusing and didn't seem to have been well thought out? It wasn't any better in FF VII (in fact, Advent Children directly contradicts FF VII in some respects which is weird because they were both written by the same man). You can call me a troll if it makes you feel any better, but all I'm doing is pointing out what I think are some fairly obvious and indisputable facts. I've done this criticism of FF VII before, and I find it interesting that the response has always been to essentially acknowledge that I'm right but then proceed to ignore me and continue to rhapsodize about their favorite story which moved them so much when they were kids. You know who else does that? Religious fundamentalists. Think about that for a second. |
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PureVideoGames — Made From Only the Finest Ingredients Launched September 12, 2004 Xantarcube: Dragon, I need you to render a thief. She should be a 15-year old girl with ninja-like abilities and a knife. Try to give her a badass pose, too. Dragon of DTT: Ok. How's this? http://www.purevideogames.net/images/Character_Art/thief_full.jpg Mortal Kombat: Dragon. Wins. L33tality! Dragon of DTT: Don't complain. Buy a hooker. Xantarcube: What am I going to do with a hooker? Dragon of DTT: Wii Sports. Shadyshark: but adrienne may be pregnant Shadyshark: or have cancer Shadyshark: she's hoping for cancer Seriously. Even I'm in my signature. Fix yours. | |
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| Makokam | Mar 5 2009, 09:06 AM Post #112 |
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Apostate
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my favorite final fantasy was 9. It's also the only one I ever finished. Is it my favorite `cause I finshed it? Or did I finish it `cause I just liked it so damn much? As for FinalFantasy 7.... uhm.. I could never finish it. I've tried it at least three times. Each time I get little further, but I inevitably end up yelling, "Fuck this game!" and blowing all the characters heads off with a 45 a'la the Nostalgia Critic |
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THIS is my side, THIS is the demiltarized zone, and THAT is your side. "Good and Evil" is too complicated. I prefer, "Us and Them". ![]() Xantarcube: *Throws Makokam down on the bed* Dalmar: Dalmar runs from no man! ... Bees, on the other hand... ![]() Join the Dark Side If you ever wonder what to do in life, ask What Would Jack Bauer Do, because what Jack Bauer would do sure as hell will get things done faster than what Jesus would do. | |
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| Slappy | Mar 5 2009, 11:04 AM Post #113 |
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New and Improved
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Well though I only tried the Golden Chocobo once and gave up quickly, you actually can land the airship on that peninsula, its just tough as hell. You have to find the right spot and keep trying to land around there over and over. Its a glitch, but still works. And its the Knights of the Round Materia. I do agree on the materia thing, but I think that materias like Steal were influenced by things like agility and whatnot. Can't be sure on that. I do like the idea of the materia system, and enjoyed it more in Crisis Core, but I agree that Steal and things like that are strange things to make Materia. I actually still enjoy playing FF7. I understand it a bit better than I did when I was younger and I notice the plot holes and such, but I still enjoy it. Not sure really if its mostly nostalgia or not, I haven't played it in maybe two years. I'll try again sometime this year maybe and see what I think. |
![]() Xantar: And for your information, I didn't call on any minions. They got into this on their own, and they seem to be having a blast. Marci: Screw you too, I'm not your minion. Xantar: Also, Makokam is not my minion. Just thought I'd point that out.
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| Malagossa | Mar 5 2009, 11:37 AM Post #114 |
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Eternally Dreaming
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Xantar I haven't seen Advent Children. Its not that I haven't wanted to either. I just haven't. I never was good at, or a big fan of the chocobo breeding in FF7. I also think the fundamental "flaw" with the materia system is really more about gamer preference. It was extremely flexible, which isn't really consistent with the way the other games were done. However, that being said a lot of the "equipment" systems in the other games are a lot like the materia system in that its maybe overly flexible. Look at the sphere grid in FF10, or the license system in ff12. Both of those took the character "jobs" out and left it to the gamer to customize who had what, or to forego the whole "job" idea if they chose to do so. But you're right, for continuities sake, the abilities shouldn't have been materia based, but character based. At least it would have brought more tactical relevance as far as which "party" you take into battle. But I believe we will need to agree to disagree. My "favoritism" for ff7 goes beyond the simple nostalgia of a mixed up teenage youth. I don't think any of the games that followed ff7 would have been what they are without the influence of ff7. You also can't deny the general broad appeal it has, and the amount of "gamers" it has taken into the rpg fold. Lastly dear Xantar I wasn't calling you a troll, just merely pointing out that you "trolled" me. There is a small difference. You specifically targeted me when you said I was like an abused housewife for liking FF7. I haven't said anything likewise about you in any rebuttal. I also have supported my opinions as much as you have supported yours. I was also pointing out the line you used was creative and funny. At least I thought it was comical. So I am in no way offended about what you said. I was just again pointing out that it was a bit "trollish" in that it was mostly unsolicited. Edited by Malagossa, Mar 5 2009, 12:30 PM.
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| Trippy Skippin Tomato | Mar 5 2009, 02:06 PM Post #115 |
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TOTALLY SEXY GAMER DEMON GOLFER
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IIRC the skills worked the same for everyone, aside form damage dealing ones like Deathblow. And please, don't get me started on this one. It won't be pretty. |
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| Slappy | Mar 5 2009, 02:36 PM Post #116 |
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New and Improved
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I definitely agree with materia kind of taking away any tactical meaning to your party. I know that when I first played it I put in Cloud, Valentine, and Red because I "thought they were cool." Haha, my cousin put in Cloud, Tifa, and Yuffie because he's a perv. It simply didn't matter who you had in because everybody could do anything. I liked it then but it is kind of dumb. I didn't like FF10's grid system very much. I liked the freedom it appeared to give you, but really you didn't have a lot of freedom because Tidus was never going to be as strong as the blue cat could be, or Auron. So really you had to go a certain direction for an effective team. But I think it was much more solid in that you would specialize certain people and switch your party according to what the people were good at. I also really liked the party switching in battle they added. Plus Blitz Ball was the greatest mini-game in any of them in my personal opinion. |
![]() Xantar: And for your information, I didn't call on any minions. They got into this on their own, and they seem to be having a blast. Marci: Screw you too, I'm not your minion. Xantar: Also, Makokam is not my minion. Just thought I'd point that out.
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| Trippy Skippin Tomato | Mar 5 2009, 10:19 PM Post #117 |
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TOTALLY SEXY GAMER DEMON GOLFER
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False. Talking about just FF, Triple Triad is where it's at. I only advanced the plot in FF8 to gain access to new cards and better players/rules. Also: Tidus, Wakka, and Lulu are the most powerful characters in FFX, and after you reach Omega Dungeon there is no reason to ever use anybody else. They're the only characters capable of more than 199,998 damage. As for the Sphere Grid: I was ok with it, but at the endgame it fell apart. But for just normal playthroughs where you'd probably finish one path and maybe half of another, it was pretty cool. It kept you to the class system while still allowing you to dick around a little bit and customize, without making everybody into the same character(until the end, where the whole thing falls apart, as I've already said). |
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| Makokam | Mar 6 2009, 08:43 AM Post #118 |
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Apostate
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On raising Golden chocobos: I was talking to Dalmar last night, and he said he was able to make them flawlessly. It had to do with their rankings and the races. He said, "If you breed to champion chocobos you get a gold every time. if you breed crappy chocbos it does becomea statistics game and you get crappy gold chocobos." I don't know the full thing `cause it was just kind of mentioned in passing. He can explain the process himself if he wishes. |
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THIS is my side, THIS is the demiltarized zone, and THAT is your side. "Good and Evil" is too complicated. I prefer, "Us and Them". ![]() Xantarcube: *Throws Makokam down on the bed* Dalmar: Dalmar runs from no man! ... Bees, on the other hand... ![]() Join the Dark Side If you ever wonder what to do in life, ask What Would Jack Bauer Do, because what Jack Bauer would do sure as hell will get things done faster than what Jesus would do. | |
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| Xantar | Mar 6 2009, 11:19 AM Post #119 |
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Not Jeff Probst
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And you know very well none of that has anything to do with whether the game is actually any good. Otherwise the original Friday the 13th movie would be a masterpiece (it's really popular, has influenced all the slasher movies that came after it, and it brought in a whole new group of horror movie fans, didn't it?) I'm going to just pretend you didn't say this sentence.
Here's another small difference: a troll is someone who knowingly starts an argument based on either false facts or faulty reasoning (ad hominem attacks, straw man, illogical conclusions etc.) I did none of those things. What I said was actually just plain true. You even said so. And if you're not offended, that's fine. It would be nice if you actually read and responded to what I said, though. Then again, truth be told, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
No, you haven't. I gave two very specific criticisms of FF VII, neither of which you denied. I can do a lot more if you want. In return, you have not offered any points in favor of FF VII other than "it was popular and influenced lots of games that came after" (which is meaningless) and "I liked it a lot when I was in 7th grade and you are right to say it was so emotional *weepy eyes*" (which isn't even really an argument in FF VII's favor). I find it interesting that you keep protesting that your reasons for liking FF VII don't just have to do with nostalgia and yet in five separate posts you never actually tell me any of those reasons (I went back and read them just to check). You certainly haven't tried to praise it on the basis of its graphics (actually, you've acknowledged they are kind of ugly) or its storyline. So WHY do you like FF VII so much? And WHAT exactly makes it a good game? Can you come up with anything better than "I just like it" or "It was really influential"? Right now, I read your posts and I don't see a fan. I just see someone with a major, alpha-grade case of denial. All of the above, just to make this clear, is not trolling or gratuitous insults for the sake of being insulting. It's all just reasoned out argument, and if it happens to imply that you're an idiot, that's not my fault. And if you want to deny of it, try actually denying the specific points I make instead of just flailing emotionally about like (once again) an abused housewife. |
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PureVideoGames — Made From Only the Finest Ingredients Launched September 12, 2004 Xantarcube: Dragon, I need you to render a thief. She should be a 15-year old girl with ninja-like abilities and a knife. Try to give her a badass pose, too. Dragon of DTT: Ok. How's this? http://www.purevideogames.net/images/Character_Art/thief_full.jpg Mortal Kombat: Dragon. Wins. L33tality! Dragon of DTT: Don't complain. Buy a hooker. Xantarcube: What am I going to do with a hooker? Dragon of DTT: Wii Sports. Shadyshark: but adrienne may be pregnant Shadyshark: or have cancer Shadyshark: she's hoping for cancer Seriously. Even I'm in my signature. Fix yours. | |
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| Dalmar | Mar 6 2009, 03:55 PM Post #120 |
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Arcane Swordsman
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I find it amazing that people still talk about FFVII with all the other Final Fantasy's out there. It was hailed as a masterpiece when it came out but if it were reviewed today it would probably get a 7.5. When the game came out it was unlike anything most people had ever seen. It was mind blowing and was the most awesome thing to have ever been created. We were on such high from the amazing graphics, cool spiky headed protagonist and the platinum haired awesome villain that we failed to see the flaws that are now glaringly apparent. We didn't care back then, hell, most of us didn't even understand the story we just thought it was awesome. Ah to be a teenager again... I've played and beaten FFVII ten times am I an FF junkie? Perhaps but it's more like I'm an RPG junkie, that and I just get bored and replay all my games. Anyway FFVII was an amazing game when I was teenager and was for most teenagers but something happens to us as we become older and wiser. We look back on things and wonder why we were ever interested in something like that. The only answer I can come up with is at the time we simply didn't care. Now about the Gold Chocobo, the first time through the game this can be a frustrating task mainly because you haven't a clue what to do. When I started I used to think it wasn't worth the time because the chances seemed so slim but then I started to delve into the breeding process and found it to be pretty easy. You simply need a Black S Class and a Wonderful S Class (Yes the Class matters) and the proper nut a Cerub if I'm not mistaken (it has been a while) that's it and you are guaranteed a Gold Chocobo. I know people that had a harder time getting Tifa's Final Heaven than getting a Gold Chocobo. Of course there was always the alternative method to getting that golden bird, which was to defeat Ruby also a fairly simple task. It's all a matter of knowing what to do. Mini Games: Trippy hit the nail on the head. Triple Triad rules! It was a well thought out game that required strategy, deep thinking, knowledge of basic math and sometimes dumb luck. Each region offered different rules so the game never lost its challenge and the rules would eventually stack making for one hell of an experience add in the trade rules and catchy music and you have one of the most addicting mini games ever created. In fact its one of the main reasons I continue to play FFVIII today. Blitz Ball seemed like the best mini game at first. I originally thought it was a fantastic game till I really started to get into it. After a while the game looses its challenge and is no longer fun. It was just a means to get Wakka's Reels. The problem with Blitz Ball is it's a statistics game. If your stats are higher than the opposing team you'll win. What really got me is one player could make a world of difference. My team sucked until I recruited one player then all of a sudden I start winning games, my character's stats start to rise and soon there isn't a single team that can pose a challenge. There was one other mini game I did find enjoyable however and that was FFIX's Chocobo Mini Game. It wasn't really a challenge but it was fun and the rewards were worth it. Plus playing this game will unlock the hardest boss in the game. I have yet to defeat said boss but I have only played the game once. When I'm finished with Dragon Quarter I will probably go through IX again with the intent to defeat both hidden bosses that kicked my ass the first time through. |
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