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| A few thoughts | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 15 2006, 11:00 AM (1,252 Views) | |
| The one | Jan 15 2006, 11:00 AM Post #1 |
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Newbie
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Well all of sudden Ive realized some things... What really is a webstandard? what are the minimum requirement of knowledge in codes do you need inorder to be capable of designing a decent website? Many noobs to the webindustry as freelancers ask themselves these questions. I for one admit my lack of knowledge in most coding, although I do have a decent amount of knowledge in HTML. I think we should analyze our selves and wonder were are we in the webmedia talent? Are we Good? Fair? Poor? Awesome? a Guru? I plan to create a series of articles having to do with this subject. I certainly believe my self to be a completely ignorant noob, Ive only designed about 3 websites, 2 of which were html which had very bad coding, and a good one that was basic flash. But I have all of sudden become quite hungry to learn more about organizing my skills. This may seem odd to some of you, possibly not, but in reality im not skilled at all, Im just a beginning webdesigner. And above all, Ive realized that webdesigining has alot to do with organization. The way our workspace is organized reflects alot about our media capabilities.... Do you just get on frontpage or dreamweaver and slap on a few GIF or PNG images? or do you take your time in working the image first then carefully coding it? Well that is all |
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| + Bird-E | Jan 15 2006, 05:53 PM Post #2 |
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Dedicated member
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Hmm, I didnt know if you wanted people to reply or not, or if this was kinda like a retorical question. In answer to your questions- I used to be the type of person that would just hop on frontpage, pop up photoshop and do a quick job of a website. That was only really because I never took webdesign seriously. Last year my work began to show some sort of professionalism, so I made it my goal to learn how to hand code. I learnt about web standards and why we need them, and realised how unorganised and butchered my old webpages seemed (created in frontpage). It really becomes quite easy with practice. My process is as follows- I go straight to my sketchbook, no photoshop, no graphics. Here I plan out the site, whether it be the design, page transitions, graphic ideas, whatever. I usually start with a flow chart of the site- what links are connected to what, and where they lead to, with little comments describing what each page holds. I then begin to work out the design, which usually is more time consuming. As i'm creating the design, i'm visualizing how I can utilize css to construct it (div boxes). I know it sounds corny, but its become second nature to me, and it doesnt take much time. After that, I work on transitions and effects (if its a flash site), but now that I understand the basics of javascript, i'm looking to incorporate moo.fx, some javascript effects. Once the planning has been completed (and I have a solid understanding of what I want), I open up photoshop and begin to flesh it out. I try to put much of my visual design (colour) into div boxes. I see many people make the mistake of opening up photoshop when they're first starting something. If you find that you're asking the question- "I opened up photoshop ready to do some work, but what should I make/do?", then your not 'designing' as such. This question is mostly asked by sig designers, so whether a signature actually requires designing or not, the nature of the work probably allows them to skip the planning stage. I know its a bit brutal, but if you only have a vague idea of what you want, build on that first, instead of stabbing blindly at it with photoshop (and never being able to get it to look right). Finally I code it, incorporating what graphics I need. whoops, I also plan out/add content at this stage. Why do I do it now? Because I type much faster than I handwrite, so I prefer to skip planning it out in my sketchbook. Technically, I have only made websites using pagebuilders like geocities (in my early days), and since then I have never made a complete website. That doesnt make me any less experienced or skilled though, for I have made possibly hundreds of web pages, but not websites. I can also use flash proficiently, both to create websites and to create multimedia presentations, even though I have not made any official sites. sorry if this post dragged on, I kinda have a habit of doing that. |
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| Zeerus | Jan 16 2006, 08:36 PM Post #3 |
Spank My Monkey!
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my workspace during the design process, hehe: http://flickr.com/photos/zeerus/86122627/ pretty messy, but it allows me to expand my creativity, by having all of my references spread out. I've mastered HTML, know a large amount of XHTML, and have memorized almost all of CSS, except for hacks and workarounds. I am efficient in Photoshop, but have basically no experience in Flash, which I desperately need to learn. According to a web design magazine I own one of the most desired skills in freelancing is ActionScript, not the actual Flash designs, but the coding that powers them. some companies hire two separate Flash designers, one to designt he graphical elements, and another to script it. this is something I desperately need to learn, but I'm perfectly content with working with XHTML/CSS and outsourcing for Flash work until then. luckily I've been able to disuade recent clients from using Flash for lack of usability |
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| + Bird-E | Jan 16 2006, 09:32 PM Post #4 |
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Dedicated member
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aheheh nice. Interactivity is definately a big thing which I offer. I was shocked the other day when I realised that I could code actionscript fairly well, even though I have never really touched it. The syntax is very similar to Javascript, so it wasnt much of a drama figuring it out. Once I get my head around some more things, im hoping to start building a game which will go with my animation series. I also dont know much about css hacks or workarounds, so im hoping that I will be able to cover this through cross browser stylesheets. If I ever get around to it, I want to go and pick up some good webdesign/graphics/multimedia magazines from my local newsagent. It would be great to be able to read about topics that im interested in. Off topic: God.. I have the WORST shift in an hour. 8 hours of stocktake. Once I get off work, im just gonna crash, but then its full steam ahead for projecthybrid. :^_^: |
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| Zeerus | Jan 17 2006, 07:56 AM Post #5 |
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Spank My Monkey!
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don't worry about learning hacks and workarounds. The IE7 team has announced that they will no longer work, and has fixed most of the major display problems, so most designers will have to use Conditional Comments to serve up a different style sheet for IE6 and older (I'll write a tutorial on this sometime soon) The IE7 team has also announced that IE7 will pass the original ACID test, but not the ACID2 test. hey, it's better than nothing. I'm still hoping for tabbed navigation. At least their will be built in RSS icons for websites thats upport it. |
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| The one | Jan 18 2006, 07:57 AM Post #6 |
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Newbie
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Right...when it comes to Java, i have no clue how to code it or what is for.... I dont see the difference between java and flash to be honest. Maybe some one could explain it to me, my friend(25) took out a majors in Computer science and he learned the following: C++,Java,Pearl,ColdFusion,XML,DHTML,Actionscript...And im not talking about him knowing just a bit of each...he knows those codes like we know how to read and write english...the guy is a wiz.... I asked him if he had is own site but he told me after working on websites all day long for a Time share company he has no will to come back home and work some more.... But this guy is like a huge idol for me (in webdesign) he doesnt know much about the actual designing part but he knows the codes... I plan to learn Java within the next year (2007), but this year Im focusin on CSS and HTML, then after im done with those, Im gonna head for XML... also while doing that my other friend whos a design freak and also the owner of Hostnetdirect.com is a flash professional so hes gonna come over and show me the ropes on flash and stuff... like how to create a complete site on flash..... which would be cool. So yea...many of you are probably wondering when our portfolio site will be done, for now nothings certain...Im gonna atleast learn CSS and HTML before I start anything. O yea one more thing.....check out this site..its quite a work of art...the most beautiful layout and color pallete Ive seen by far...It makes you feel like eating it up..lol www.cssbeauty.com this will inspire anyone. |
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| + Bird-E | Jan 18 2006, 06:35 PM Post #7 |
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Dedicated member
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we code javascript, unrelated to java (by micro sunsystems or whatever that company is). From what I gather, Java is a very powerful programming language, in the same class as C++. If flash was a replacement for java, then I would have no need to learn anything. But unfortunately thats not the case. I see you've stumbled onto a css site. It does have a nice colour palette. Dont go jacking the style though, its one thing to copy, its another thing to be able to do the sh*t. |
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| Zeerus | Jan 20 2006, 11:16 PM Post #8 |
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Spank My Monkey!
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No offense to any of you, but it gets on my nerves when I've been on these sites like CSS Beauty for about three years now, and then other people come along and introduce it to me like it's their own site. I've had CSS down for quite some time now, so these gallery sites are no big news for me, I'm a regular reviewer and news contributor over at http://stylegala.com and I'm among the top twenty posters on the forums. It's a really great resource if you get stuck. Anyway, Java is pretty dead if you ask me. Stick with C++ for major programming, but if you want to focus on the web then start learning JavaScript and PHP, they're pretty easyt o learn and use in most situations. |
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| + Bird-E | Jan 21 2006, 12:01 AM Post #9 |
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Dedicated member
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Ahahah I know where you're coming from Zeerus. I have this friend who's supposedly really tech-savvy, but he only has his reputation because he goes onto cnet and reads up on new stuff. So anyway, cnet posts a review of studio 8 pretty late after its release, and he's like 'bird-E (he used my real name), did you know that macromedia has released a new flash and software suite?', speaking as if he knew the whole time but he had really just read it then (we were in the computer lab). I was kinda speechless, thinking 'man, wtf, of course I f#%king know, dont go trying to prove your dominance over me'. Or something along those lines... i forget. |
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| Zeerus | Jan 21 2006, 12:05 AM Post #10 |
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Spank My Monkey!
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lol. the bad thing about being so far ahead of other designers my age, who are still mostly using tables, is that I seem to inspire them to start their own business and compete with me. I then enjoy stealing their clients away. the problem with web design for most teenagers is that most online or physical design courses teach students how to use tables for layout, and if they continue this they'll never be professionals. CSS is the way of the up and comers, and no designer can afford not to be an up and comer, don't you agree? that's the whole thing about being that guy is that you always have to be learning something knew, you're always up and coming because your skills are always evolving into something new |
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| + Bird-E | Jan 21 2006, 12:12 AM Post #11 |
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Dedicated member
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Its like you're reading my thoughts, or at least some of them. People my age (specifically the guy I mentioned in my previous post) always try to 'challenge' me, saying how im nothing special and that they can make a website in frontpage. <sarcasm>OH yea, packing heat with a butchered table-based webpage.</sarcasm>. Strangely enough, whenever I hear talk of people creating cross-browser stylesheets, it always seems to 'look fine in FF, but look like cr#p in IE', where as with me its the reverse. I dunno if im being arrogant in thinking the following, but I always feel that I have to keep improving, or keep expanding my knowledge, so that people who doubt me (and try to cut me down) will only be able to dream of catching up with me. |
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| Zeerus | Jan 21 2006, 12:21 AM Post #12 |
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Spank My Monkey!
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I'm the same way. It's not that I'm standoffish, or enjoy making people feel inferior to me, I just hate it when they talk a big game and having nothing to show for it. About the IE/FF thing, it's the same with me. As IE currently holds over 70% of the browser market I begin all my pages by making them work in IE first, then I start making it look right in FF. If I was using hacks it would be the other way around, but since I use my browser dependant CSS on almost all sites now, it's easier for me to make two different versions and compare them "oh yeah, hey Kevin, have you heard about this thing called CsS? iz like so for ze l33t designer's, you goatse try this stuff yo. it r0xorz my sox0rz. word?!?" that's all I seem to hear is incoherent babble from design posers, so tiring at this point. my usual response is something like this: "You dumb freakin retard. I've been using CSS for years now,w here have you been. Oh yeah, I know, stuck coding in Microsoft Word. Just because you can use some mySpace page generator doesn't make you a designer. Especially when you have white text on a disturbing white and black bg image. Moron" |
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| + Bird-E | Jan 21 2006, 12:29 AM Post #13 |
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Dedicated member
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ahah man, we must think alike or something. I usually just have a no comment sort of approach, but im just burning up inside. I dont want to seem arrogant or cocky. I was talking with my multimedia teacher once (trying to convince her that I didnt need to learn photoshop again), and one of my friends rocks up and begins saying how 'hard' it is, and the way he said it implied that I had agreed previously with him. Kinda like saying 'me and bird-E reckon its hard'. I just snapped (on the inside) and just felt like blurting out 'speak for yourself, you dont even know what im capable of'. You probably could've seen my face go red, I could sure feel it. In the end my reputation was lowered to that of his, so I had to sit through the photoshop teachings. I remember I was burning up, kinda stressing about how I was going to prove that I knew how to use photoshop and flash, and that I wasnt a 'n00b' like the others my age (no arrogancy implied). Now i've learned to just not let things bother me, and just get even later on. |
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| Zeerus | Jan 21 2006, 12:37 AM Post #14 |
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Spank My Monkey!
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They'll realize that they've been doing it all wrong their entire life when we, the second generation of web designers, who actually bothered to learn about standards, are running the succesful design firms pulling in six figures yearly (not sure what the AU conversion rate it, so six figures in the US may only be 5 figures in AU). It all comes down to your success in the end. clients are going to look for the most experienced designer with the most impressive resume. You can have a list of all the programs you've mastered, but it does no good if you don't know the language or syntax behind it. And that's the reason I hate where most teen designers are going right now. Sure, anyone can slice and code a Photoshop design, but they're never going to learn from it if they let PS do the coding for them. |
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| + Bird-E | Jan 21 2006, 12:45 AM Post #15 |
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Dedicated member
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very true. Well anyway, getting back on topic, I managed to get my html website to look just fine in IE and FF using my javascript method. I know its unorthodox, but I know next to nothing about servers, PHP, setting up mySQL databases, etc (seeing as I have never had paid hosting), so I'll replace the javascript with PHP as soon as I purchase hosting and get up to scratch. (that active content warning sure does annoy me). It would be pretty kool if we were friends at the same school, a nice change from incompetent assholes that are supposedly my 'friends'. We (my friend and I) were meant to have like this mutual agreement that we wouldnt annoy each other in terms of 'what we do' (he wants to do IT stuff or something and I want to do web/graphic stuff). So far he's ticked me off around 5 or 6 times, so looks like he needs a wake up call. i dunno what im gonna do yet. |
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| Zeerus | Jan 21 2006, 12:48 AM Post #16 |
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Spank My Monkey!
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I've got this little video running through my head of you and me showing up at school and going crazy on all the tech posers. I'm talking kicking computers off desks, beating people with laptops, tying up the kids with mice and USB cables. yeah, that's right, run in fear, for the AV admins are coming, mwuhahahaha once I get my Dreamhost account set up I'll give you some free hosting with a subdomain, email, PHP, and all that junk. |
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| + Bird-E | Jan 21 2006, 12:54 AM Post #17 |
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Dedicated member
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ahahah! that would make for some awesome watching. |
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| Zeerus | Jan 21 2006, 12:57 AM Post #18 |
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Spank My Monkey!
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sure would. well, it just hit 1 AM here in Florida, and I've been up since 7 AM yesterday morning, so I'm pretty tired. I'm going to clean the kitchen and then go to sleep. I'll return to this tomorrow, hopefully. it's so far spawned a ton of blog post ideas for Textonic |
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| + Missingo | Jan 21 2006, 09:46 AM Post #19 |
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Dedicated member
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Wow....that was a great conversation to read...lol yea that would be funny if you two went to the same school and went on a computer beating spree...lol Yea I used to use all that table crap on frontpage...but thanks to this book....those days are over. I just started working on a practice site and stuff.. and its looking well... it will be CSS, and possibly XML valid. I cant wait to learn everything there is. I usually created my sites on Flash that why I never bothered learning webstandards. But now that I want to create a plain site, I realized...I CANT. Im almost ready to create a site from scratch that will be CSS and XML valid. By the way I got ungrounded sinced I Aced all my midterms....including English 4 AP. YAY FOR ME.... lol....*Bird-E* yea the whole PHP thing on the Mysql has got me at my wits end...I just dont get it. the other day I was spoofing a page for my friend...(if thats what its called*) Me and a friend (A REAL ONE) needed to create a register page, but it had to be quick until he could have the time to do it. So I went to the login page and saved it to my comp, then I edited the code so it would send all username and passwords to that persons email and to Jerek(my friend) But it had to be in PHP.... so I got everything working...except I dont know how to make PHP work on servers... When people registered the password would not go to there email...or when existing member logged in..it would work....and take them into the member area...but Jerek would recieve no count on how many members entered.. So Im having a bit of problems with that... k I gtg.. peace |
| Its too late its too late....they wont let go...they wont let go...follow my foot steps through that open door...open door....It must be very under the heart that makes this place so insane youll find in time that the gates have been upon | |
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| Zeerus | Jan 21 2006, 01:52 PM Post #20 |
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Spank My Monkey!
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PHP is very difficult if you have no knowledge of general web coding. BTW, its XHTML not XML. XML is a language used to create backend programs and RSS feeds. anyway, back to PHP. I suggest installing it and mySQL ony our local machine, and try using some of the tutorials on P2L |
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11:07 AM Nov 8
