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game shopping; the thread that should never end...
Topic Started: Oct 17 2005, 03:55 PM (21,704 Views)
sheath
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
16bitman
Oct 15 2006, 01:02 PM
Call of Duty- Xbox
I understand Sheath's compulsion to buy games you will never
regularly play. I try to make up for it by shedding junk games
more regularly. It is odd tho' A polished game like LA Rush turns
out to be trash while a rough-cheapo shooter like Classified- The
Sentinel Crisis turns out to be a lot of fun.

Yeah, and I'm only really getting games I know I will want to play again at some point. I just don't play them straight through anymore.
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bluecrabfive
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Traded Burnout 3 (XB) and Strike Force Bowling (PS2) and picked up the following:

Mortal Kombat: Armegeddon (XB - new $40) Nice, the Konquest mode is alot different, the Kart Racing is fun and different than most. I'm not sure how I like the air throws and stuff, maybe it will grow on me.

Street Fighter EX3 (PS2 - $13) - Always wanted to try one of these 2d games gone 3d

King of Fighters: Maximum Impact (PS2 - $15) - Ditto

AMF Extreme Bowling 2006 (PS2 - $13) - Seemed OK, better than Strike Force Bowling, but I think I may have liked the previous AMF game better it looked like it had more of an overhead viewpoint I would like more. This may get traded for that one instead.

Burnout Revenge (XB - new $20) - Was a little skeptical but I liked a couple of things better than BO3, you start out with better cars and that annoying announcer dude is changed to a less annoying chick voice.
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Belpowerslave
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sheath
Oct 15 2006, 07:55 PM
Yeah, and I'm only really getting games I know I will want to play again at some point. I just don't play them straight through anymore.

I still play straight through stuff, it just takes so long because I have so much to choose from. Stuff like The Punisher(Xbox), The Suffering/Ties that Bind(Xbox), any given PC FPS, etc. I'll just sit there and play until I beat. My only problem with it all is that because I have so much, even if the game is great, I have trouble going through it again because I know I have so much waiting in the background to be played... :(

Bel
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Belpowerslave
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Mortal Kombat: Armegeddon (XB - new $40) Nice, the Konquest mode is alot different, the Kart Racing is fun and different than most.  I'm not sure how I like the air throws and stuff, maybe it will grow on me.


I think the Motor Kombat will be my most played game online, and the rest will be split between Konquest mode and arcade mode offline....once I get it, that is.

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Street Fighter EX3 (PS2 - $13) - Always wanted to try one of these 2d games gone 3d


I've got the first one on PSX, it's pretty hip. I'm not sure I like a lot of the changes they made to the gameplay(the super-in-super stuff, etc) but I still dig it. If I can find Ex2 I'll pick it up...

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King of Fighters: Maximum Impact (PS2 - $15) - Ditto


Let us know how this one is, I've always wanted to try it.

Quote:
 
AMF Extreme Bowling 2006 (PS2 - $13) - Seemed OK, better than Strike Force Bowling, but I think I may have liked the previous AMF game better it looked like it had more of an overhead viewpoint I would like more.  This may get traded for that one instead.


There's always Alley 9 Bowling on PC/Mac...;)

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Burnout Revenge (XB - new $20) - Was a little skeptical but I liked a couple of things better than BO3, you start out with better cars and that annoying announcer dude is changed to a less annoying chick voice.


I need to look into this one at some point, but I'm not even remotely done with the offline game in 3.

Bel
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Belpowerslave
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Well, I graduated, and now I find myself as a TA in the history department of Sam Houston.  I'm getting paid quite a bit more than I was working 10 hours a week, that's for certain.  To be honest, I had no idea I was spending so much on games, I just wanted to get some stuff going that I had put off for a long time, and it kind of exploded in my face.  Fortunately, I actually did have the money, I just probably should have spent it more wisely.  ;)


I've noticed that whenever I go game shopping, I either find nothing...or I find a shitload, there's no real middle ground. ;)

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It is!  Now that I've played the Lynx and SNES versions, which are a joke, I really appreciate it.  I played the hell out of the arcade version back in the day, it used to give me whole arm cramps I was mashing buttons so hard.  I should break out the joystick and play this one the same way!


A lot of people were pissed about how small the characters were and whatnot, but man, in the arcade/MAT version they are *too* big and the way the screen had borders on it made things even worse. On the Genesis version, you have the space and screen estate to move about, making it much better imo.

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Man, I can't play fighting games with an Xbox or PS2 controller, I'm just too used to the older six button pads.  Besides, MK CD isn't actually all that bad in comparison to the Genesis and SNES game.  It's not great, sure, but it's not bad either. 


Well, at least they added a lot more of the animation in as well as the soundtrack...but still, just such a shit-effort by shithouse Probe. What kills me though? As shitty as MK CD is, it's the complete opposite of Samurai Shodown CD.

MK CD - Adds in more animation for the characters, some background detail than the Genesis version had.

SS CD - Actually removes a lot of animation the Genesis version had, as well as a lot of stuff from the backgrounds.

How the hell JVC fucked that one up, I don't know. The only redeeming value of SS CD is the fact that they've got the entire Neo Geo soundtrack redbooked on the disc(unfortunately, though, some stages have their sound effects *in* the actual music track, thus killing just listening to the music).

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If I hadn't blown so much cash, I'd be snagging SFII and some avenue 6 pads as we speak.  Instead I'm left with playing SF2:SCE on my Genesis and Magic Engine for SF2 CE, and let me tell you, I don't think there's really all that much of a difference.  I think that the TG16 game suffers the most in parallax, but only by one layer in some scenes.  Aside from that, it's got better digital samples than the Genesis game and much nicer colors.  It'd be fun to actually play it on the TV some time.


I don't know, it seems to lack a lot of character animation as well. The music is almost midi-like too, which is a huge step down from the Genesis version. I do agree though, that the sound samples and color are far better. :)

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Transformers is the game that pushed the PS2 to the max, it's made by Melbourne House of Le Mans fame.  It plays like a first person shooter and a mech game in one.  FPS in that it uses Dual Analog, mech in that the bots are somewhat slow to get moving and hard to stop (they slide). 


Hmmm, interesting. Planning on doing any videos?

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When it came out, I mentioned in the Sony group that I thought it was pretty good evidence that Halo could have been done on the PS2 with this graphics engine (not Halo's mind you).  Since then I have noticed the insane amount of aliasing in the game, and I'm pretty sure it's doing the PS2's typical line doubling low res thing to achieve the high polygon counts.


I think pretty much anything on the Xbox could have been done on PS2, they'd just have to dumb some of it down to accomodate the system's limitations.

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Everything is very well thought out, and the boss fights are epics.  There's even a fight against a giant Decepticon which puts Eiji's favorite game to shame.  The only thing that people bitch about is that this game is insanely hard, especially in the boss fights.  I mean, I don't think that the Dual Shock 2 was made for action games, and aiming precisely is very difficult, but required by this game.


It sounds so fucking cool!

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There will be a movie up at the following link within the hour:
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/Miscmovies/TFPS2001p.avi


Oops, and there's my answer to the video question. ;) Downloading now...

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It's tough, but yeah it was the first game I bought.  I waited and waited for it to come out on the Dreamcast, at least it came out somewhere without downgrade (as was the case with Soul Reaver 2).


I hear part 2(Chaos Bleeds) wasn't nearly as good...that's depressing, but expected I guess.

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Yeah, I already had two 5 port Pelican and one 4 port Gamespot label pelican switcher boxes on my TV set.  Now I have three 5 ports on the TV and one on my computer.  They're all the same box, so they look really nice stacked next to one another vertically, and I've even made custom labels for the old school stuff so everything's labeled.  I think I mentioned elsewhere that I'm obsessive about keeping all of my systems hooked up at all times and easy to access.


I can dig it. About the only system I don't have hooked up right now is the original NES. I may go ahead and pop it out at some point, maybe when I start up the Nintendo section on WAG...

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Bonk 1+2 and Bomberman (I'm not sure what year, but it runs and looks nicer than Super Bomberman) are on the US release of Gate of Thunder's disk.  It's a sweet deal!


Wow, that is sweet!

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Valis I was terrible on the Famicom and whatever else it came out for too, they remade it for the Genesis and then the TG16 CD (best version apparently but Jap only).


Yeah, I've seen pics of it on the Famicom...it makes me want to cry. So the Genesis and TG16 are completely redone versions of the Famicom original?

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Syd is actually a goofy remake of Valis II with slightly better level design than the TG16 CD version.  The TG16 Valis II sucks, all of the levels have single backgrounds including the foreground, the animation sucks, the attacks suck, the cheap shots suck and the boss fights are lame.


That's too bad, I had high hopes after playing Valis 1 and 3.

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Nope, after I took the time to resolder the battery so I can save, I played it for like 2 hours straight, couldn't put it down.  Then I never picked it up again, just like everything else I've been blowing cash on.  :(


Man, wait until you get towards the end...those fucking bosses! Man, I swear you'd think it was a 32X game!

Bel
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David J.
The other pallet swapped ninja
I got 16bitmans games in the mail.

And tommorow afternoon, I get to take my mom's new SUV for a spin.... can't wait to take it on dates and stuff. ;)
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sheath
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Well, at least they added a lot more of the animation in as well as the soundtrack...but still, just such a shit-effort by shithouse Probe. What kills me though? As shitty as MK CD is, it's the complete opposite of Samurai Shodown CD.

MK CD - Adds in more animation for the characters, some background detail than the Genesis version had.

SS CD - Actually removes a lot of animation the Genesis version had, as well as a lot of stuff from the backgrounds.

How the hell JVC fucked that one up, I don't know. The only redeeming value of SS CD is the fact that they've got the entire Neo Geo soundtrack redbooked on the disc(unfortunately, though, some stages have their sound effects *in* the actual music track, thus killing just listening to the music).


I did a comparison of SS CD with the NEO GEO ROM earlier this year (when I got SS CD), and I didn't notice any loss in animation. The Genesis game doesn't even have all of Haomaru's moves, especially his fierce strikes, but the Sega CD game has everything but the judge in the background. The sprites themselves in the Sega CD game are actually identical to the NEO GEO game, as opposed to bein super scaled down (as in the SNES game) or just totally redone smaller versions (in the Genesis game). The only area I've noticed the Sega CD game suffers is in color counts, as it's stuck below 50 colors to the NEO GEO original's 150 simultaneous.

http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/SamshoComp.htm


As for Light Crusader:
I can't wait to play through my older RPG and Action Adventure games sometime. I just never get the time to actually do it lately. I really want to see Golden Axe Warrior. Light Crusader would be close to the top of that list as well.

As for SFII CE for Turbo:
I don't see what you mean about the animation here either, the characters animate in the same way in all three versions, from what I can tell, and no moves look like they animate differently. I would actually suspect that all three versions are using the exact same sprites, and they just adapted the game's backgrounds to the systems and redid the music and sound. Which characters are missing animations?
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David J.
The other pallet swapped ninja
Come on paypal! Going to hopefully be snagging Columns Arcade collection, and both of the Puzzle And Action games, and then take a breather from Saturn import action, as I'll have almost all of the imports I want for that system.

*phew*
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Belpowerslave
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I did a comparison of SS CD with the NEO GEO ROM earlier this year (when I got SS CD), and I didn't notice any loss in animation.  The Genesis game doesn't even have all of Haomaru's moves, especially his fierce strikes, but the Sega CD game has everything but the judge in the background.


Yeah, I do like that they brought that back. I didn't mind the double strike they replaced it with in the Genesis version, but the original has more distance.

I think the SCD version is also missing that guy who runs by and throws shit out onto the playing field as well. I swear there are some other background details missing, but I've been so off lately, I could very well be wrong on that. I played it a small bit after getting it in the mail a while back, and was disgusted by the load times and the lack of voice(no more "Ippon", etc), just like I was years and years ago when I bought it(new)...then returned it the same day. I don't know, I need to give it another shot.

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The sprites themselves in the Sega CD game are actually identical to the NEO GEO game, as opposed to bein super scaled down (as in the SNES game) or just totally redone smaller versions (in the Genesis game).  The only area I've noticed the Sega CD game suffers is in color counts, as it's stuck below 50 colors to the NEO GEO original's 150 simultaneous. 


Man, I don't know what the hell happened with the SNES version. It's like they wanted to add in scaling(like they did for AoF on SNES), but then just decided to go with the super-scaled out version and just left it at that.

Hmmmm, I didn't notice that the Genesis sprites were completely redone, that's wild.

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As for Light Crusader:
I can't wait to play through my older RPG and Action Adventure games sometime.  I just never get the time to actually do it lately.  I really want to see Golden Axe Warrior.  Light Crusader would be close to the top of that list as well.


It's damn good...the puzzles, like in Land Stalker, are damn hard at times, but still it's worth a single play through.

Quote:
 
As for SFII CE for Turbo:
I don't see what you mean about the animation here either, the characters animate in the same way in all three versions, from what I can tell, and no moves look like they animate differently.  I would actually suspect that all three versions are using the exact same sprites, and they just adapted the game's backgrounds to the systems and redid the music and sound.  Which characters are missing animations?


You know, I gotta apologize. I've been real off lately, and have just been going by memories....which with my incredibly short memory span, isn't the best idea. I guess I was just thrown back by the wallpaper backgrounds and midi-music, and didn't give the game much of a chance past that(when I first played it months ago). Sorry about that.

Still, I wonder how they managed to do it. I mean, even with the music scaled down, and the lack of parallax scrolling, how did they manage to fit SF2:CE into 6 megs? The Genesis version was 24 megs and the SNES 20(I believe). You wouldn't think the added parallax scrolling would take any more space, and the though the music would, I wouldn't think it'd take 14 or 18 more megs. The Turbo version has got to be missing something...I guess I just assumed it was the animations. Maybe it's character size?

Bel
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sheath
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I did a comparison of SS CD with the NEO GEO ROM earlier this year (when I got SS CD), and I didn't notice any loss in animation.  The Genesis game doesn't even have all of Haomaru's moves, especially his fierce strikes, but the Sega CD game has everything but the judge in the background.


Yeah, I do like that they brought that back. I didn't mind the double strike they replaced it with in the Genesis version, but the original has more distance.

I think the SCD version is also missing that guy who runs by and throws shit out onto the playing field as well. I swear there are some other background details missing, but I've been so off lately, I could very well be wrong on that. I played it a small bit after getting it in the mail a while back, and was disgusted by the load times and the lack of voice(no more "Ippon", etc), just like I was years and years ago when I bought it(new)...then returned it the same day. I don't know, I need to give it another shot.



Yeah, the original Haoumaru fierce strike was his chief move, his stance (Haso-Gamae) is adapted to fool with the distance because he's leaning back. It's basically one of the few relatively authentic kenjutsu techniques in the game, and without it, I just couldn't play the Genesis version.

You're right though, the SCD game is missing all background characters besides the two fighters. What I think this is though, is a result of the Sega CD's RAM limitation of 768KB (6Megabit) per level. In copying the exact NEO GEO levels and character sprites and animations, even with 1/3rd of the colors on screen, they just maxed out the RAM per level. I think the original NEO GEO ROM is only 24 or 32megabits.

As for Mortal Kombat CD, I did some comparisons for my own purposes, and your assessment is the same as mine. It's the Genesis game (exact backgrounds) with more animation in the characters. When I first popped it in I thought that it looked pretty good, and my extremely negative recollection of the Genesis version had me thinking they had changed up the backgrounds and sprites, but they didn't. I don't have time right now to put all of the pics up online, but I suspect that the SNES and Arcade pics will look the most similar, and then the Genesis and Sega CD pics will be identical to one another, and I'll have to show a movie file to demonstrate the Sega CD versions animation increase (and far superior audio).

The Genesis and Sega CD games are running below 45 colors simultaneous, the SNES game is at 130 simultaneous, and the arcade game is over 256 somewhere with a much higher screen resolution than either home version and much larger sprites.

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As for SFII CE for Turbo:
I don't see what you mean about the animation here either, the characters animate in the same way in all three versions, from what I can tell, and no moves look like they animate differently.  I would actually suspect that all three versions are using the exact same sprites, and they just adapted the game's backgrounds to the systems and redid the music and sound.  Which characters are missing animations?


You know, I gotta apologize. I've been real off lately, and have just been going by memories....which with my incredibly short memory span, isn't the best idea. I guess I was just thrown back by the wallpaper backgrounds and midi-music, and didn't give the game much of a chance past that(when I first played it months ago). Sorry about that.

Still, I wonder how they managed to do it. I mean, even with the music scaled down, and the lack of parallax scrolling, how did they manage to fit SF2:CE into 6 megs? The Genesis version was 24 megs and the SNES 20(I believe). You wouldn't think the added parallax scrolling would take any more space, and the though the music would, I wouldn't think it'd take 14 or 18 more megs. The Turbo version has got to be missing something...I guess I just assumed it was the animations. Maybe it's character size?


Naw, I was just wondering if I was completely missing some aspect of the animation, because I've never really seen a huge difference in the animation between the SNES and Genesis games either, and people usually say the Genesis game has a bit more. The TG16 ROM I have is 2,561 MBytes, which would be 20.5 Megabits. That's about 512KB, or 4 Megabits, smaller than the Genesis game, but it is missing all of the digital music instruments of the Genesis game (which caused the Genesis sound chip to choke on the simultaneous voice samples anyway).

That's actually one of the more interesting aspects to this comparison that I want to display. The TG16 and Genesis sound chips are analog only, with one digital channel, while the Genesis chip can do four more analog channels than the TG16 can. So, that means that the Genesis can have more instruments and better stereo sound. In this case they tried to push it past its limits with digital musical instruments and digital voice samples, and it resulted in the much maligned garbled voice samples. The TG16 game uses all analog instruments, and so the voices are much more clean (and the file size is noticably smaller) than the Genesis game's.

As far as I can tell, the sprites are all identical between the three system's versions, being ported from the SNES. The SNES game only used 16 colors per sprite character, and so do the Genesis and TG16 games, and they are scaled down from the arcade original. I haven't noticed any difference in the animations for each system's various iteration.

http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/SF2CEComp.htm
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/SFIIT.htm
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bluecrabfive
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I think the Motor Kombat will be my most played game online, and the rest will be split between Konquest mode and arcade mode offline....once I get it, that is.


Its pretty sweet, I think you either get 8 or 10 characters to start out with. The big difference between this and most other kart racers I have played is this one is not so big on drifting corners.

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There's always Alley 9 Bowling on PC/Mac...


How old is it? Playable on a modern PC or is it a DOS box only game?

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Burnout Revenge (XB - new $20) - Was a little skeptical but I liked a couple of things better than BO3, you start out with better cars and that annoying announcer dude is changed to a less annoying chick voice.


I need to look into this one at some point, but I'm not even remotely done with the offline game in 3.


Played this a bit more last night, first thing, don't delete your save from Burnout 3 like I did; manual says you get an extra car if you have a save on your hard drive (theres also a Madden 2006 vehicle if you have a save from that). They pushed the arcadish envelope even farther in this (beyond the almost unlimited amounts of boost in BO3) by letting you take out any car from the rear or sides. The only thing that screws you up other than a head on collision is running into a semi.

The crash mode has another wrinkle in it as well, kind of a golf swing meter type of thing when you start out to give you a speed boost. Kind of a pain in the ass at the moment. Crash mode almost seems a little over done too that way, too many things to think about in a way. Still BOR seems pretty good, looks a hair better than BO3 too.
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Yeah, the original Haoumaru fierce strike was his chief move, his stance (Haso-Gamae) is adapted to fool with the distance because he's leaning back.  It's basically one of the few relatively authentic kenjutsu techniques in the game, and without it, I just couldn't play the Genesis version.


Hmmmm, that's interesting. I don't know about it being unplayable on the Genesis or anything like that, but...;)

Quote:
 
You're right though, the SCD game is missing all background characters besides the two fighters.  What I think this is though, is a result of the Sega CD's RAM limitation of 768KB (6Megabit) per level.  In copying the exact NEO GEO levels and character sprites and animations, even with 1/3rd of the colors on screen, they just maxed out the RAM per level.  I think the original NEO GEO ROM is only 24 or 32megabits.


Oh yeah, I'd definitely agree with you, due to the added frames on animation on the characters, I'm sure they didn't have anything left for the judge guy or that other guy that comes running by. Not a big deal or anything, but I do miss them.

Quote:
 
As for Mortal Kombat CD, I did some comparisons for my own purposes, and your assessment is the same as mine.  It's the Genesis game (exact backgrounds) with more animation in the characters.  When I first popped it in I thought that it looked pretty good, and my extremely negative recollection of the Genesis version had me thinking they had changed up the backgrounds and sprites, but they didn't.  I don't have time right now to put all of the pics up online, but I suspect that the SNES and Arcade pics will look the most similar, and then the Genesis and Sega CD pics will be identical to one another, and I'll have to show a movie file to demonstrate the Sega CD versions animation increase (and far superior audio).


Thing is, if I had to make a guess as to what actually happened: I'd say Probe did their usual half-assed effort on the Genesis version, and it got published unfinished. They then finished it up and then put it on the SCD. I mean, like we've both said, the only thing different is the character animation. There are a few slight differences in the background, IIRC(I think the floor in Goro's lair scrolls differently, or has a different texture), but that's about it past the animation.

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The Genesis and Sega CD games are running below 45 colors simultaneous, the SNES game is at 130 simultaneous, and the arcade game is over 256 somewhere with a much higher screen resolution than either home version and much larger sprites. 


The SNES version has really scaled down backgrounds which make the characters look bigger than they actually are. The Genesis version didn't scale them down, which is why the already-smaller characters on the Genesis looked even smaller than they really are.

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Naw, I was just wondering if I was completely missing some aspect of the animation, because I've never really seen a huge difference in the animation between the SNES and Genesis games either, and people usually say the Genesis game has a bit more.  The TG16 ROM I have is 2,561 MBytes, which would be 20.5 Megabits.  That's about 512KB, or 4 Megabits, smaller than the Genesis game, but it is missing all of the digital music instruments of the Genesis game (which caused the Genesis sound chip to choke on the simultaneous voice samples anyway). 


Man, I could have sworn that the Turbo version was only 6 megs...I don't know why though. Man, a 20 meg card game, that's bad-ass! Is that the biggest one to ever make it to card form? With that in mind though, only being 4 megs smaller than the Genesis version, I can totally see how they did it now, scaling down the music could easily shave off 4 megs.

Quote:
 
That's actually one of the more interesting aspects to this comparison that I want to display.  The TG16 and Genesis sound chips are analog only, with one digital channel, while the Genesis chip can do four more analog channels than the TG16 can.  So, that means that the Genesis can have more instruments and better stereo sound. In this case they tried to push it past its limits with digital musical instruments and digital voice samples, and it resulted in the much maligned garbled voice samples.  The TG16 game uses all analog instruments, and so the voices are much more clean (and the file size is noticably smaller) than the Genesis game's. 


How did they do it on Genesis SSF2? Was the music not digital anymore, thus allowing thus allowing the sound samples to be much clearer?

Quote:
 
As far as I can tell, the sprites are all identical between the three system's versions, being ported from the SNES.  The SNES game only used 16 colors per sprite character, and so do the Genesis and TG16 games, and they are scaled down from the arcade original.  I haven't noticed any difference in the animations for each system's various iteration.


You could very well be right. From your pics, there is very little difference in the character size. From what I'm seeing it's more about those black borders that all versions seem to have...

Bel
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Belpowerslave
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Its pretty sweet, I think you either get 8 or 10 characters to start out with.  The big difference between this and most other kart racers I have played is this one is not so big on drifting corners.


Man, sounds pretty hip! I wonder how many people it supports for online play?

Quote:
 
How old is it?  Playable on a modern PC or is it a DOS box only game?


That I am unsure of. I know it's a Mac/PC hybrid disc, and I'd probably just play it on the Mac anyway. I see it from time to time, I'll pick up next time I come across it and see how it runs on the PC. It may be one of those games you luck out on, and just have to use the compatibility tab to get working.

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Played this a bit more last night, first thing, don't delete your save from Burnout 3 like I did; manual says you get an extra car if you have a save on your hard drive (theres also a Madden 2006 vehicle if you have a save from that).  They pushed the arcadish envelope even farther in this (beyond the almost unlimited amounts of boost in BO3) by letting you take out any car from the rear or sides.  The only thing that screws you up other than a head on collision is running into a semi.

The crash mode has another wrinkle in it as well, kind of a golf swing meter type of thing when you start out to give you a speed boost.  Kind of a pain in the ass at the moment.  Crash mode almost seems a little over done too that way, too many things to think about in a way.  Still BOR seems pretty good, looks a hair better than BO3 too.


Definitely sounds interesting. Maybe when it hits Platinum I'll pick it up. :)

Bel
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sheath
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Belpowerslave
Oct 17 2006, 03:56 PM


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Yeah, the original Haoumaru fierce strike was his chief move, his stance (Haso-Gamae) is adapted to fool with the distance because he's leaning back.  It's basically one of the few relatively authentic kenjutsu techniques in the game, and without it, I just couldn't play the Genesis version.


Hmmmm, that's interesting. I don't know about it being unplayable on the Genesis or anything like that, but...;)

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You're right though, the SCD game is missing all background characters besides the two fighters.  What I think this is though, is a result of the Sega CD's RAM limitation of 768KB (6Megabit) per level.  In copying the exact NEO GEO levels and character sprites and animations, even with 1/3rd of the colors on screen, they just maxed out the RAM per level.  I think the original NEO GEO ROM is only 24 or 32megabits.


Oh yeah, I'd definitely agree with you, due to the added frames on animation on the characters, I'm sure they didn't have anything left for the judge guy or that other guy that comes running by. Not a big deal or anything, but I do miss them.


Yeah, I can't say that I didn't play the Genesis version when it was all that I had either. Once I got the Sega CD game though, and since I've been able to play the original on a buddy's NEO GEO, I just haven't been able to go back. The Sega CD game has the exact gameplay and AI of the original, it's really just flawless in these two aspects. Then the Sprites themselves look identical, and with the 32X or X'Eye I can't even tell the backgrounds are lower color. The only things missing are the announcer and the miscellaneous background characters, which would have been nice (hell, it would have been nice if Sega made a RAM upgrade for the SEGA CD too).

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Thing is, if I had to make a guess as to what actually happened: I'd say Probe did their usual half-assed effort on the Genesis version, and it got published unfinished. They then finished it up and then put it on the SCD. I mean, like we've both said, the only thing different is the character animation. There are a few slight differences in the background, IIRC(I think the floor in Goro's lair scrolls differently, or has a different texture), but that's about it past the animation.

The SNES version has really scaled down backgrounds which make the characters look bigger than they actually are. The Genesis version didn't scale them down, which is why the already-smaller characters on the Genesis looked even smaller than they really are.


That sounds reasonable to me, knowing friggin Probe (shoulda been Analprobe;). I agree about the Sprite sizes too. I've got it on the TV while I'm fooling around today, and I keep looking up and thinking "Damn, those sprites are huge" and then the next time I look up I think they're too small. It's definitely the backgrounds fooling with my eyes, because if I look at the size of them in relation to the set itself they aren't changing.

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Man, I could have sworn that the Turbo version was only 6 megs...I don't know why though. Man, a 20 meg card game, that's bad-ass! Is that the biggest one to ever make it to card form? With that in mind though, only being 4 megs smaller than the Genesis version, I can totally see how they did it now, scaling down the music could easily shave off 4 megs.


Considering the Genesis game had to be 8 megabits bigger than the original SNES game or Turbo, just to get all of the sounds in there as they were, I think that the lack of digital instruments in the TG16 game more than covers the 4Megabit difference between it and the Genesis. The SNES's digital-only sound chip had some kind of audio compression routine for all of those digital samples to fit on a cart, the Genesis and TG16 just had to have them on the cart raw or compressed along with the rest of the level data to be decompressed at load time. This shows up again in that the SNES version of SSF2 was only 32Megabits to the Genesis version's 40Megabits.

I don't know whether SF2CE was the biggest PCE game, it's definitely one of the few that got that big though. What's amazing to me is how much the system shines when it's got more memory (especially in the Super CD-ROM or Arcade CD-ROM games). I mean, it's still got the background layer limitation in relation to the Genesis, but it doesn't look bad in comparison, once the ROM size limitation is greater than 4Mb.

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That's actually one of the more interesting aspects to this comparison that I want to display.  The TG16 and Genesis sound chips are analog only, with one digital channel, while the Genesis chip can do four more analog channels than the TG16 can.  So, that means that the Genesis can have more instruments and better stereo sound. In this case they tried to push it past its limits with digital musical instruments and digital voice samples, and it resulted in the much maligned garbled voice samples.  The TG16 game uses all analog instruments, and so the voices are much more clean (and the file size is noticably smaller) than the Genesis game's. 


How did they do it on Genesis SSF2? Was the music not digital anymore, thus allowing thus allowing the sound samples to be much clearer?


I think so, that and the game is 16 Megabits bigger with only four new characters and backgrounds. The first link below is SCE and the second is SSF2 on the Genesis. I think I can hear even through my laptop's speaker that the first game has digital drums as well as other digital instruments playing simultaneously with the digital sound effects and voices. SSF2's music still has digital drums, but no longer has the other odd digital instruments (like the weird treble "cricket" sound in the first game). Instead, SSF2's audio depth for the main analog instruments is much greater, which is normally achieved by playing two or more analog instruments at once, and then there is one more instrument line in SSF2's music that isn't in SCE's. What would be awesome is if emulators could seperate each sound channel and you could turn each on and off in order to do a comparison. ;)

http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/ssf2files/Streetf2gen2.MP3

http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/ssf2files/Supersf2gen.MP3

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Belpowerslave
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Yeah, I can't say that I didn't play the Genesis version when it was all that I had either.  Once I got the Sega CD game though, and since I've been able to play the original on a buddy's NEO GEO, I just haven't been able to go back.  The Sega CD game has the exact gameplay and AI of the original, it's really just flawless in these two aspects.  Then the Sprites themselves look identical, and with the 32X or X'Eye I can't even tell the backgrounds are lower color.  The only things missing are the announcer and the miscellaneous background characters, which would have been nice (hell, it would have been nice if Sega made a RAM upgrade for the SEGA CD too). 


Man, imagine if that Backup RAM cart they put out was a dual memory and RAM upgrade for the SCD!

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That sounds reasonable to me, knowing friggin Probe (shoulda been Analprobe;).  I agree about the Sprite sizes too.  I've got it on the TV while I'm fooling around today, and I keep looking up and thinking "Damn, those sprites are huge" and then the next time I look up I think they're too small.  It's definitely the backgrounds fooling with my eyes, because if I look at the size of them in relation to the set itself they aren't changing.


They did that with Genesis MK2 as well, though that time they really did scale down the characters quite a bit...and with the regular sized backgrounds, they looked horribly small. The 32X seemed to get the character size back up to around the SNES sizes(though the SNES's scaled down backgrounds make the characters look larger).

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Considering the Genesis game had to be 8 megabits bigger than the original SNES game or Turbo, just to get all of the sounds in there as they were, I think that the lack of digital instruments in the TG16 game more than covers the 4Megabit difference between it and the Genesis.  The SNES's digital-only sound chip had some kind of audio compression routine for all of those digital samples to fit on a cart, the Genesis and TG16 just had to have them on the cart raw or compressed along with the rest of the level data to be decompressed at load time.  This shows up again in that the SNES version of SSF2 was only 32Megabits to the Genesis version's 40Megabits. 


Yeah, you're probably right on that. Man, 40 megs...I still can't believe it! Wasn't SSF2 just $50 like everything else when it came out, I mean, they didn't try to charge $70 because the cart size was so big?

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I don't know whether SF2CE was the biggest PCE game, it's definitely one of the few that got that big though.  What's amazing to me is how much the system shines when it's got more memory (especially in the Super CD-ROM or Arcade CD-ROM games).  I mean, it's still got the background layer limitation in relation to the Genesis, but it doesn't look bad in comparison, once the ROM size limitation is greater than 4Mb.


It really is incredible, no way around it. I'd like to see some of the Neo Geo conversions, I'll bet they were bad-ass!

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I think so, that and the game is 16 Megabits bigger with only four new characters and backgrounds.  The first link below is SCE and the second is SSF2 on the Genesis.  I think I can hear even through my laptop's speaker that the first game has digital drums as well as other digital instruments playing simultaneously with the digital sound effects and voices.  SSF2's music still has digital drums, but no longer has the other odd digital instruments (like the weird treble "cricket" sound in the first game).  Instead, SSF2's audio depth for the main analog instruments is much greater, which is normally achieved by playing two or more analog instruments at once, and then there is one more instrument line in SSF2's music that isn't in SCE's.  What would be awesome is if emulators could seperate each sound channel and you could turn each on and off in order to do a comparison.  ;)


You ought to suggest that to one of the emulator forums, like Kega Fusion or Gens, they may just be able to do it. I mean, some Genesis emulators were only really built with the express purpose of ripping sprites out, etc, so asking for something like that wouldn't be that far of a stretch.

Very interesting info on the audio, I had no idea how most of that stuff worked out. BTW, though, I liked the cricket sound! ;)

Bel
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16bitman
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Ate a steak,bought some firelogs and....
Apex- a B-racer with nice graphics. I dislike most
A-racers for X-box so I might enjoy it! : -)

Psi-Ops- I hear it has wide open gameplay with a lot
of opportunities to mess around.
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Belpowerslave
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16bitman
Oct 17 2006, 07:59 PM
Psi-Ops- I hear it has wide open gameplay with a lot
of opportunities to mess around.

People were raving about that game back in the day...I played a demo of it, and that's about it. I liked it...

Bel
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Just bought Columns Arcade Collection, and the other two Puzzle And Action games from Japan.

I just put $70 in my paypal a few days ago, and right now I'm down to $10!
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David J.
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Just bought Batman Returns Game Gear!

And at a good price... none of that $15+ bullshit. If you loved the GG Shinobi games (Bel) This is the same game... they even use the same engine and share some of the same music it appears. Another great Yuzo soundtrack...
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Belpowerslave
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Yeah, I've played the rom version of it on GG and SMS, and love it. I want to pick it up at some point, but GG stuff is hard to come by around here. :(

Bel
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