Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Whip Ass Gaming Forums!


You're currently viewing the forums as a guest. The only limitation on guests, here at WAG Forums, is that you simply cannot contribute posts/pics/whatever. You can view all forums, all pics, all member profiles, everything. If you're just here to lurk, feel free continuing to do so...there is no reason to sign up for an account. However, if you would like to contribute then go ahead and start the registration process!


Join our community!


NOTE: I have no idea why the board defaults to centering everything when you're lurking/not logged in. Once logged in, it aligns everything to the left(as it should be).

If you're already a member...log in:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Kinect-ing thoughts; All things Kinect - Get it, Love it, Want more of it!
Topic Started: Nov 11 2009, 10:24 AM (1,105 Views)
DarcSeven
Member Avatar
I'm gonna sing the DOOM Song.
$80. I expected that to be way higher. If this is the case, then Microsoft might just pwn (yeah, I said it ;)) for the rest of this gen. This is good information for my upcoming speech too.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/104/1044267p1.html

Natal for November 2010
14 games and low price at launch for Microsoft's motion controller.
by Martin Robinson, IGN UK

UK, November 11, 2009 - First precise details on the launch of Microsoft's Natal technology have emerged with the motion controller slated for a November 2010 release, to be supported by 14 launch games and to retail under 50 GBP (80 USD).

Details come courtesy of MCV and have emerged from a recent Microsoft tour of UK studios. Some 5 million units are also said to be being prepared for the release.

Natal was revealed at this year's E3 and is Microsoft's first serious move into a market that's become dominated by Nintendo since the launch of the Wii. There's no word on what the 14 launch titles will be, but it has already garnered the support of several key development studios, and is looking to rejuvenate the Xbox 360 console.

We went hands-all-over-the-place with it at Gamescom this year – head here to read our thoughts.
Just call me Steve. ;)
Twitter Page
http://ds7gamestalk.blogspot.com/
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/21474/Project-Natal-Recognized-by-TIME-Magazine/

Right as Time Magazine proclaims it as the "Invention of the Year" too...

To me, the award should have been more like "The One Pheripheral that MS isn't going to rape you on" or something. ;)

Still, what a slap to the face for Sony...they do their very best to copy it only to play second fiddle in front of all of America. Gotta love it.

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/21610/Natal-Details-to-Surface-at-Gamesfest/

More info...

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
This is cool

http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-01/exclusive-inside-microsofts-project-natal

Exclusive: Inside Project Natal's Brain
CES 2010
The artificial intelligence behind Microsoft's Xbox 360 motion-sensing game controller
By Jill Duffy Posted 01.07.2010 at 1:40 pm 16 Comments

It Sees You: Microsoft
Deep in Microsoft's lairs, the Xbox 360 team is working on more than just a new video-game system. They're actually trying to solve an incredibly difficult problem in artificial intelligence. Their prototype Project Natal lets you control a game just with your body movements—no buttons or Wii-like wands—by watching you with a 3-D video camera. Sounds simple enough, but most cameras just snap images without having any idea what they're looking at. To make Natal work, Microsoft has to teach its camera to understand what it sees.

Here at CES, Microsoft announced last night that Natal will go on sale "by the holidays." Before the show, we were given an exclusive look at the smarts that make Natal tick.

For a closer look at how Natal learns, launch the gallery
The Brain

The part of Natal that players see looks like a webcam. (Microsoft's not divulging details about this hardware yet, presumably because the release is many months in the future, but we do know that it measures relative distances using a black-and-white camera sensor and an near-infrared beam.) But it's the software inside, which Microsoft casually refers to as “the brain,” that makes sense of the images captured by the camera. It's been programmed to analyze images, look for a basic human form, and identify about 30 essential parts, such as your head, torso, hips, knees, elbows, and thighs.

In programming this brain--a process that's still going on—Microsoft relies on an advancing field of artificial intelligence called machine learning. The premise is this: Feed the computer enough data—in this case, millions of images of people—and it can learn for itself how to understand it. That saves programmers the near-impossible task of coding rules that describe all the zillions of possible movements a body can make.

The process is a lot like a parent pointing to many different people's hands and saying "hand," until a baby gradually figures out what hands looks like, how they can move, and that, for instance, they don't vanish into thin air when they're momentarily out of sight.
How To Teach A Machine To See

Microsoft is currently training and improving the version of the brain that will ultimately go into the final product. How? By painstakingly gathering pictures of people in many different poses, and then running all this data through huge clusters of computers (as shown in the gallery) where the learning brain resides.

The process of gathering the data actually requires a lot of manual labor. First, reps went into homes around the world and recorded people moving in front of a specially built rig. The images captured are real people moving the way any ordinary person would. But those recordings can’t tell the computer anything useful about joints and limbs on their own, so programmers dive into the raw data and hand-code it to label each body part (at each frame!).

Microsoft also uses professionally staged motion-capture scenes, which provides similar data but without all the manual labor of coding by hand (since the systems use sensors that mark individual body parts). And Microsoft has a mini mo-cap studio of its own, where staff can make a quick recording when a new chunk of data is needed.

All of these marked-up images comprise tens of terabytes of information. Microsoft's computer farms sift through this huge data set, letting the brain come up with probabilities and statistics about the human form. Once the brain is done learning, it and its stats get packaged into the Natal system. An early version is now making the rounds of trade shows, and later, more-accurate versions will eventually show up in your living room. Next, read about how it applies its hard-earned knowledge to decipher your game-playing moves.
Inside Natal's Thought Process

What's the Brain Thinking?: What's the brain thinking as it watches you jump around, swinging imaginary bats or head-butting imaginary soccer balls? As you stand in front of the camera, it judges the distance to different points on your body. Then the brain guesses which parts of your body are which.

What's the brain thinking as it watches you jump around, swinging imaginary bats or head-butting imaginary soccer balls? The above screenshot shows what's going on in it's head—the different images represent different stages of Natal's computational process. Here's the step-by-step:

Step 1: As you stand in front of the camera, it judges the distance to different points on your body. In the image on the far left, the dots show what it sees, a so-called "point cloud" representing a 3-D surface; a skeleton drawn there is simply a rudimentary guess. (The image on the top shows the image perceived by the color camera, which can be used like a webcam.)

Step 2: Then the brain guesses which parts of your body are which. It does this based on all of its experience with body poses—the experience described above. Depending on how similar your pose is to things it's seen before, Natal can be more or less confident of its guesses. In the color-coded person above [bottom center], the darkness, lightness, and size of different squares represent how certain Natal is that it knows what body-part that area belongs to. (For example, the three large red squares indicate that it’s highly probable that those parts are “left shoulder,” “left elbow” and “left knee"; as the pixels become smaller and muddier in color, such as the grayish pixels around the hands, that’s an indication that Natal is hedging its bets and isn’t very sure of its identity.)

Step 3: Then, based on the probabilities assigned to different areas, Natal comes up with all possible skeletons that could fit with those body parts. (This step isn't shown in the image above, but it looks similar to the stick-figure drawn on the left, except there are dozens of possible skeletons overlaid on each other.) It ultimately settles on the most probable one. Its reasoning here is partly based on its experience, and partly on more formal kinematics models that programmers added in.

Step 4: Once Natal has determined it has enough certainty about enough body parts to pick the most probable skeletal structure, it outputs that shape to a simplified 3D avatar [image at right]. That’s the final skeleton that will be skinned with clothes, hair, and other features and shown in the game.

Step 5: Then it does this all over again—30 times a second! As you move, the brain generates all possible skeletal structures at each frame, eventually deciding on, and outputting, the one that is most probable. This thought process takes just a few milliseconds, so there's plenty of time for the Xbox to take the info and use it to control the game.

(If you want to get into more details on the science, check out the machine-learning papers of Microsoft researcher Andrew Blake, on whose work Natal is partly based.
www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/21840/Natal-What-Weve-Learned-This-Week/

This is also good news, though I hear the haters are already stating it to be the downfall of the add on. OMG, you mean that without its own processor it *may* have to use a whole core of the 360's triple core processor!? Oh nos!

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
Are they actually saying a whole core? I've only heard 10% of the system resources at maximum. Something around 7% of the system resources seems to be the average guesstimate. Since Microsoft has announced already that Natal will not be supported by previous releases, and that they are going to focus solely on entirely new experiences, I would suspect that people like you and I aren't going to like it much.

There is a possibility that, as an exception to the entire history of video games since the 1970s, Microsoft (of all companies) will come up with entirely original ideas that don't suck. Since I have a suspicion that most of Sega of America's former talent is now working for Microsoft this is a possibility.

The very existence of Natal makes one imagine infinite possibilities. That will be Microsoft's downfall if they don't actually deliver the stars, moon, nebulae and whatever else people want (probably sexual pleasure at the same time).
www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/industry-shows-overwhelming-support-for-project-natal

Industry shows overwhelming support for Project Natal

Microsoft's Project Natal is the most anticipated technology to be released this year, according to a survey of games industry professionals.

49.8 per cent the GamesIndustry.biz Network members taking part in an exclusive poll backed Microsoft's motion control device, due for release around the Christmas season this year.

In comparison, only 6.9 per cent of respondents voted for Sony's PlayStation 3 motion controller, while a further 4.5 per cent highlighted motion control technology in general as a significant step forward for the industry this year.

Publisher support for Project Natal has been more significant, although notably very little software has been shown publicly. Activision, Capcom, Konami, Bethesda, Disney, Square Enix and Sega are all on board, and Ubisoft has said that it has twice as many games in development for Natal than for Sony's peripheral.

THQ has pledged day-one support for both devices, and in an interview with GamesIndustry.biz today, EA's Jens Uwe Intat said that EA Sports Active – originally a Wii exclusive – will "extend to the other two platforms."

The PlayStation motion controller – rumoured to be called Arc – has been confirmed for a worldwide autumn release this year, meaning both systems are likely to go head-to-head during the Christmas sales period.

While only two 3D console games were released last year (Ubisoft's Avatar and Namco's Invincible Tiger), the future of stereoscopic gaming also piqued interest in the annual survey (7.1%), as did the future possibilities of cloud gaming services such as Gaikai and OnLive (3.8%).

Other technology mentioned included the rumoured Wii HD, a true successor to the DS console, the evolution of gaming on Facebook and other social networking sites, DX11 for PC gaming and games built using Crytek's CryEngine 3 console engine.

The GamesIndustry.biz Network currently consists of 11,414 members.
www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
Quote:
 
Are they actually saying a whole core?

No, just rumoring...that's what makes it so funny. ;)

Quote:
 
Since Microsoft has announced already that Natal will not be supported by previous releases, and that they are going to focus solely on entirely new experiences, I would suspect that people like you and I aren't going to like it much.

Well, honestly, I *am* ready for something new...something more interactive, but the Wii's gimmicky attempt just drove me off. I mean, it had such potential...but once in motion, it's nothing more than using a fucking air mouse to play games with. Natal has promise though...those two demos just blew me away(the paint one was a joke though). We'll see how it goes...like I said, if it doesn't deliver I am going to sell off the 360, keep the wired controller and replace all its games with the PC versions(and enjoy them on the HTPC).

Quote:
 
The very existence of Natal makes one imagine infinite possibilities. That will be Microsoft's downfall if they don't actually deliver the stars, moon, nebulae and whatever else people want (probably sexual pleasure at the same time).

It's true...they better fucking deliver on it...or, at least, hope that Sony doesn't. Honestly, I think Nintendo is the only one who needs to be worried...even if both MS and Sony fail to deliver on what they've promised, both new addons will still whip the fuck out of the Wii's gimmicks...and people ARE going to notice that.

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
Is it going to be another Natal E3?

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/full-natal-line-up-due-at-e3

Full Natal line-up due at E3

Microsoft is due to unveil its "full line-up" of Project Natal games at E3 2010 in June, according to comments made by Mindy Mount, CFO of Microsoft's Entertainment & Devices division.

Speaking at the Jefferies Annual Global Technology Conference in the US, as reported by website IGN, Mount claimed that the company's best designers were working on the platform.

With Microsoft's stable of first party developers having shrunk considerably in recent years it was unclear which developers she was referring to, although Rare are known to be heavily involved with the project and Lionhead Studios are implementing Natal features in Fable III.

Smaller first party teams such as Spawnpoint Studios and BigPark are also believed to be involved in creating Natal titles.

"We have very strong first and third-party developer support for [Natal]," said Mount. "Needless to say, we're putting some of our best people on coming up with great game ideas for this, and we're going to have some great stuff."

In January of this year Microsoft's Robbie Bach claimed that 70 to 80 per cent of games publishers in the world are committed to releasing Natal-based games.
www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
The Kinect Tour is going to show up at the Texas State Fair from Oct 14th to the 17th!!!! Who is going with me!?

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
Damn, this is looking good. Microsoft is spending 500 million to promote the connect launch, all preorders are supposedly filled, and there are seventeen fairly interesting looking casual titles at launch. Unless Microsoft screws the pooch and launches the next Xbox in six months, this is looking to be the 32X the way things should have gone.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010-10-18-microsoft-announces-kinect-release-line-up

Microsoft confirms Kinect release line-up

Larry Hryb has announced the full line up of seventeen US Kinect launch titles on his Major Nelson blog, with an announcement on European games due later today.

The full list features nine sports, dance and fitness titles, a number of minigame compilations and a few traditional games, including Sonic Free Riders and Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

Fitness games due on release day are Your Shape: Fitness Evolved, The Biggest Loser Ultimate Workout, EA Sports Active 2 and Zumba Fitness. Sports games include Kinect Sports, MotionSports and Deca Sports, and the two dancing titles are Dance Central and DanceMasters.

Also available at launch will be first-party releases Kinect Adventures, Kinectimals and Kinect Joy Ride, joined by Game Party: In Motion, Adrenalin Misfits and Fighters Uncaged.

Hryb was also keen to highlight the fact that some retailers have been reporting that pre-order allocations of Kinect have sold out already.

"I am getting reports of many retailers being sold out of their Kinect pre-order allotment, so if you have not placed your order yet you may want to take care of that," Hryb told Major Nelson readers.

Elsewhere, the New York Post is reporting that the marketing budget assigned to Kinect is $500 million, equal to that of the original Xbox.

"Kinect is the largest, most integrated marketing initiative in Xbox history, bigger than its launch," Xbox global marketing communications manager Robert Matthews told the NYP. "We are going to be spending millions to launch this globally."

The article also indicates that Microsoft has founded advertising partnerships with Burger King, Pepsi and Kelloggs and that Kinect will be staging a takeover on YouTube's homepage for the launch.
www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
Similarities between Kinect and the 32X continue. Now you can play Kinect - Controller hybrid games. We will see if this results in a "split market" as critics of add-ons persist.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010-11-03-kipman-hybrid-control-games-on-way-to-360

Kipman: Hybrid control games on the way to Xbox 360

Alex Kipman, the brain behind the development of Kinect, has told GamesIndustry.biz that there are games on the way to the Xbox 360 which will feature hybrid control methods, utilising aspects of Kinect and traditional controller technology.

Speaking in a two-part interview, the director of incubation spoke at length about the future for both Kinect and controller-based input, despite stating adamantly that he felt the controller to be the "greatest single barrier between the consumer and gaming."

"We'll continue to have controller-only games. We love controller-free games, we love Kinect experiences and we'll continue to grow our set of those as well. What we haven't really talked about, but exist, are hybrid games," offered Kipman.

"Games that are using the controller, which we know and love, and pieces, if not all, of the Kinect experiences to again make those experiences more immersive, more fun and more emotionally connected."

Earlier in the interview, Kipman said that he stood by the statement about controllers being a barrier to entry for new consumers.

"I couldn't stand behind that statement more strongly. As I look at technology I find people in my genre of work are busy putting more gadgets and more gizmos in your hand. In this world you're having to take more time to learn technology and you become essentially enslaved to it," claims Kipman.

"Our world is a world that's trying to turn that on its head. A world that starts to say, 'hey, I can make you the centre of this experience'. I can create technology which fundamentally understands you. I can switch from you having to understand technology to technology understanding all of us."

In the interview Kipman also admitted that some of the technology used to showcase Kinect when it was first unveiled has been scaled back or dropped - Lionhead's ambitious Project Milo "was never really a product" according to the technologist.

And the option of scanning in objects to be used in-game - as demonstrated in the initial E3 Project Natal reveal video - was one of his ideas that consumer feedback deemed pointless, leading him to conclude that sometimes "you have to admit that you're stupid."

The full interview with Kipman can be read here, and the first part published yesterday is available here.
www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
If the 32X argument is going to be brought up...then Nintendo's fucking ass needs to enter in to the discussion. Have you seen how many fucking add ons the Wii has!? My God, to properly play Punch-Out they want you to have the Wiimote, the nunchuck and the fucking balance board! Then you've got the stupid-ass pulse monitor thing...the Zapper thing and about 1,000 other add ons.

I really think the Wii's time is coming to an end. With Sony's blatant attempt to perfectly copy the Wiimote, a lot of people are going to migrate to the PS3 because they want something more than GameCube games with shitty controls. Others will go the full mile and grab Kinect. The Wii was already old hardware when it hit...but now it's really showing its age.

I think Grimshade has Kinect already...need to see if I can swing by and try it out. That fighting game looks fucking awesome!!!

I've already told PK that that Wii is getting sold so we can get Kinect. I'll miss online Mario Kart Wii...but playing it via the Dolphin emu, offline...I can live with it. ;)

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
It looks like living rooms are going to be the pet peeve of bloggers at the least.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/04/kinect-vs-our-living-rooms-a-survey/

www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
I think people with smaller living rooms are going to be the ones complaining...and, granted, MS should have considered that not everyone has that huge-ass, wide living room they show people playing in on the ads. Still, though, moving a coffee table should just be a common practice with all the Wii's sold here in the US...

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
http://blog.games.yahoo.com/blog/138-kinect-101-making-room-for-the-future?nc

Man, I was at Target this morning...they had *two* Kinect units left...I wanted to grab one so fucking badly.

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
Hmm, I have 7ft from my TV to my couch. I'd have to put Kinnect in my entertainment cabinet at the back to get to 8-9ft for 2-player games. Meanwhile there are Wiiware games that I have been keen on trying for a while now. How much do you want for your Wii?
www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
I'm not entirely sure, but keep in mind that I'm going to try to sell *all* of it at once(the Wii, all add ons and all games). I'll try to do an inventory of it this weekend and see what we've got.

Keep in mind you can play those WiiWare games on the Dolphin emu as well...though not exactly legally. ;)

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sheath
Member Avatar
I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
Is Dolphin even stable yet? I don't recall it running well on my Athlon X2 system last time I tried, or was it just low compatibility.

Either way, there is no way I could buy everything you have in one lot right now, so by all means find someone who will. ;)
www.gamepilgrimage.com
Buy the games of yore before they are no more
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belpowerslave
Member Avatar
Administrator
People are playing games at full speed...you just need power to do it. I can play that Capcom vs Tatsudsoafuasdkgheasroiuqwerijasdf;lkansgfl';iesu[we;lskfjsladkfj;sladfijs;adlfkjsdlafkje'qroiuweqproiujweq'rkijhf'lkhdfs'lkjh(or however you spell it) at about 50% speed right now...but people can play it full speed too. Mario Kart Wii runs...slowly, but runs. My problem is just the power...which is something that can be remedied. Just hit YouTube(or where ever) and look for "Dolphin emu" videos...

Bel
Whip Ass Gaming
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · The Big, Heavy-Ass Xbox Section · Next Topic »
Add Reply