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GamePilgrimage request and complaints; Comparisons, Criticism, hopefully facts
Topic Started: Jun 9 2010, 09:43 AM (1,056 Views)
sheath
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
Hello all,

Having recently completed the text portion of the 1991 history section on Gamepilgrimage I thought to myself, "Self, what the hell do people want to see on a website about obsolete old stuff." To which my brain responded, "well, people like movie files a lot, and pictures too." To which my gut responded, "pfft, the movies people like are so horribly contradictory we could never..." my heart interrupted, "listen guys, these games deserve to have a web presence outside of silly databases that only show emulation/compilation shots. People need to know that there is gaming life outside of modernwarfare/noir."

Well, actually this went round and round so many times that I ended up feeling like the whole idea was useless. Since everything today seems intrinsically useless though, Gamepilgrimage will continue on nonetheless! I intend to start uploading new screenshots for games on a yearly basis. I also intend to make comparison movies for multi-platform games, and games from the same genre that are exemplary of each console's capabilities. Lastly, I will be doing so chronologically from now on.

What the hell does that mean?
1) Pictures for games will be added regularly based on their release year.
2) Comparison movies will be added for games based on their release year.

If you're still reading, I am very sorry, but I do need your feedback if you can wipe a little of that spittle off your chin first. I am one hundred times more motivated to capture, crop, review, organize, and post this stuff if somebody has actually asked for it! I know none of us remember what year games came out, and I know some of you weren't even born when these games were released.

What I need is a game or two from each board member (and your friends if you can get them to sign up!) that you would like to see console accurate media for on the Internet. Please focus on 8-bit and 16-bit games for now. If I don't get any responses I will start posting thousands of pictures of *the most* obscure crap I can find and flooding the forum with posts about it.

Altered Beast - Genesis vs DUO CD vs PS2 [Need to Link]

Requests (Organized by user chronologically by system, by genre and by whether I have the games)

Belpowerslave:
Quote:
 

I would not mind seeing:

2D Consoles:
Air Buster - Genesis vs Arcade
Alien Storm - Genesis vs Arcade
Altered Beast - Genesis vs SMS vs Arcade vs NES
Bubsy II - SNES vs Genesis
Castlevania: Bloodlines - Genesis vs Mega Drive
Clay Fighter - Genesis vs SNES
Columns - Genesis vs Arcade
Cool Spot - Genesis vs SNES
DJ Boy - Genesis [vs Megadrive] vs Arcade
Double Dragon - Genesis vs Arcade
Double Dragon II - Genesis vs Arcade
Maui Mallard- SNES vs Genesis
Dynamite Duke - Genesis vs Arcade
Earthworm Jim 2 - Genesis vs Saturn
ESWAT - Genesis vs SMS vs Arcade
F-22 Interceptor vs F117 Night Storm - Genesis
Hard Driven vs Race Driven - Genesis
Gain Ground - Genesis vs Arcade
Ghouls'n'Ghosts - Genesis vs Arcade
Golden Axe - Genesis vs Arcade
Growl - Genesis vs Arcade
Insector-X - Genesis vs Arcade
Joe & Mac - Genesis vs Arcade
Jurassic Park vs Rampage Edition - Genesis
Last Battle vs Fist of the North Star - Genesis vs Mega Drive
Lawnmower Man - Genesis vs SNES
Lost Vikings - Genesis vs SNES
Maximum Carnage - Genesis vs SNES
Mercs - Genesis vs Arcade
MK3 vs UMK3 - Genesis

Mutant Chronicles: Doom Troopers - Genesis vs SNES

RoboCop vs The Terminator - Genesis vs SNES
Rock and Roll Racing - Genesis vs SNES

Sailor Moon - Genesis vs Arcade
Shadow Dancer - Genesis vs SMS vs Arcade
SplatterHouse - Turbo vs Arcade
StarGate - Genesis vs SNES
Super Smash TV - Genesis vs SNES


ThunderFox - Genesis vs Arcade
Top Gear 2 - Genesis vs SNES
Toy Story - Genesis vs SNES
Two Crude Dudes - Genesis vs Arcade


BattleToads - Genesis vs NES
Bubsy - PC vs Genesis vs SNES
Championship Pro AM - Genesis vs NES
The Immortal - Genesis vs NES

Mega Man 1-3/Wily Wars - Genesis vs NES
Micro Machines - Genesis vs NES

Snake Rattle N Roll - Genesis vs NES
Sonic 3D Blast - Genesis vs Saturn

Tetris - Genesis vs NES(Tengen)
Whatever fantasy pinball games showed up on both Genesis and Turbo-Grafx





"Next Level" Consoles:
After Burner II - Genesis vs 32X [vs DUO vs Saturn]
Art of Fighting - Genesis vs SNES vs Neo Geo [MAME] [vs DUO Arcade Card CD]
Brutal - Genesis vs 32X vs Sega CD
BC Racers - 32X vs Sega CD
Samurai Showdown - Genesis vs (optional SNES) vs Sega CD vs Neo Geo [MAME] [vs 3DO]
MUSHA vs Robo-Aleste - Genesis vs Sega CD
Samurai Showdown - Sega CD vs Sega CD 32X vs 3DO
Sol-Deace vs Sol-Feace - Genesis vs Sega CD
Space Harrier - Genesis vs 32X [vs DUO vs Saturn]
Super Baseball 2020 - Genesis vs SNES vs Neo Geo
Terminator vs Terminator CD - Genesis vs Sega CD
Toughman Contest - Genesis vs 32X
WWF The Arcade Game - Genesis vs 32X


Valis - Genesis vs Turbo-Grafx CD
Viewpoint - Genesis vs Neo Geo
Virtua Racing - Genesis vs 32X vs Saturn vs Arcade
Spider-Man vs Spider-Man CD - Genesis vs Sega CD
Chuck Rock - Genesis vs Sega CD
Chuck Rock 2 - Genesis vs Sega CD
Heavy Nova vs whatever it is on the Genesis - Sega CD vs Genesis
Lethal Enforcers/II - Genesis vs Sega CD
Mansion of Hidden Souls - Sega CD vs Saturn
Microcosm - Sega CD vs PC
NightStriker - Sega CD vs Saturn vs Arcade
NinjaWarriors - Sega CD vs Arcade
NBA Jam: TE - Genesis vs 32X
Star Wars Arcade - 32X vs Arcade
Star Trek: Starfleet Academy - Starship Bridge Simulator - 32X vs SNES
Any 32X CD game vs the Sega CD version


Exile - Turbo CD vs Genesis
Fatal Fury Special - Neo Geo vs Sega CD [vs DUO Arcade Card CD]
Lords of Thunder - Turbo CD vs Sega CD
Lunar/2 - PSX vs Sega CD
Off-World Interceptor - PSX vs Saturn vs 3DO

Secret of Monkey Island - PC vs Sega CD

Ys III - Turbo CD vs Genesis


Early 3D Consoles:
Alien Trilogy - PSX vs Saturn
Duke Nukem 3D - Saturn vs PC
Duke Nukem 3D - Saturn vs PS1
PowerSlave - PSX vs Saturn
Wipeout - Saturn vs PS1 [need to link]
Wipeout XL/2097 - Saturn vs PS1 [need to link]
Croc - PSX vs Saturn
Dead or Alive - PSX vs Saturn vs Arcade vs Xbox(DOA1 in DOA Ult Set)

Any of the Psygnosis titles that got ported to Saturn(vs PSX)
Mortal Kombat 3/UMK3 - PSX vs Saturn
Mortal Kombat Trilogy - PSX vs Saturn
Resident Evil - PSX vs Saturn

Three Stooges - PSX vs NES
Twisted Metal 2 - PSX vs PC [?!]
Test Drive 6 - PSX vs DC
Walt Disney Racing - PSX vs DC
Zero Divide - PSX vs Saturn

Any Model 1/2 game that made it to Saturn
Quake - Saturn vs PC(software rendering only)
Scorcher - PC vs Saturn


Later 3D Consoles:
Not possible at present:
Bionic Commando - NES vs XBLA
Any of the Bleemcast games - Bleemcast vs PSX
Any of the Capcom games that got ported to DC(vs PSX) - Resident Evil 2, 3, Dino Crisis, etc
Dead or Alive 2 - DC vs PS2 vs Xbox(DOA Ult version)
Doom 3 - PC vs Xbox
Doom 3: RoE - PC vs Xbox
Enter the Matrix - Xbox(1080) vs PS2(480)
Hal-Life - DC Vs PS2 [need to link]
Half-Life - DC(unreleased beta) vs PC
Halo 2 - PC vs Xbox
HeadHunter - PS2 vs DC
Omikron - DC vs PC(this one would be really interesting!)
Outrun 2/C2C - Xbox vs Xbox
Panzer Dragoon Orta(PD1) - Xbox vs Saturn vs PC
Phantasy Star Online - Xbox vs DC
Resident Evil 4 - Ultimate PC version vs PS2 vs GC
Shenmue II - Xbox vs DC
Slave Zero - PC vs DC
Soldier of Fortune - PC vs DC
Spider-Man - DC vs PSX
Star Wars: Jedi Power Battles - DC vs PSX
Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven - Xbox vs PS2
Trickstyle - PC vs DC
Unreal Tournament - PC vs DC

Other:
Not Possible at Present:
Capt America - GG vs Genesis
Ninja Gaiden - Arcade vs Lynx
Hard Driven - Arcade vs Lynx vs Genesis
Fatal Labyrinth vs Dragon Crystal - Genesis vs GG(same game)
Pit Fighter - Genesis vs Arcade vs SNES vs Lynx
Psychic World - Game Gear vs Sega Master System
Streets of Rage - GG vs Genesis
Streets of Rage 2 - GG vs Genesis


Rastan - Arcade vs SMS


Emulation:
Any of the Genesis hacks vs their SNES or GBA originals
Mega Man X - Genesis hack(rom form only) vs SNES
Midnight Resistance - Genesis vs Arcade
Rolling Thunder 2 - Genesis vs Arcade
Power Instinct - Genesis(completed but unreleased, in rom form only) vs SNES vs Arcade
Sengoku - Neo Geo [MAME] vs Sega CD [Fusion]
Soul Blade - PSX vs Arcade(would kill for this one)
Strider - Genesis vs Arcade



I would love to see some Amiga vs Genesis comparisons, since a lot of Genesis games came from the Amiga. I can provide you with a torrent or DVD with every Amiga game and emu if you want.




...remember, you asked for this...;)

Bel


Drkstlkr7
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Earthworm Jim - Genesis vs Sega CD vs SNES
Boogerman - Genesis vs SNES
Edited by sheath, Jan 12 2011, 12:59 PM.
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DarcSeven
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Does Guardian Heroes count as 16-bit? No, probably not. ;)
I think a good one right now would be Earthworm Jim since it's HD version was released today. (I thought the trial was pretty good too.)
And as an odd request...Boogerman? :D
Just call me Steve. ;)
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sheath
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Great suggestions! Earthworm Jim and Boogerman are both multi-platform and use, I think. the same engines. Since they're all from 1994 and 1995 I will have to put them a little lower on the list, as I presently need to crank out some serious media for 1986-1989, '89-90, and 1991 games. I am also limited presently by the fact that I do not own any version of either game, and need to get a hold of the Genesis and SNES, not to mention Sega CD, version of each before I can work on it. This is not a big deal, but I am limited somewhat by what I presently own (which you can see by looking up the game on gamepilgrimage's library page).

By "the list" I mean the queue I am going to create and post to this thread hopefully this week that should help jog folk's memories on some games they actually would like to see media for.
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sheath
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I am presently massively updating the pages for dozens of 16-bit games from '89-'91. I have decided to primarily stick to the attract modes for each game and to only post screenshots for now. The screenshots are PNG format from the MPEG-2 capture video and the color counts are taken to represent the relative unique colors on screen from the Composite A/V outputs of each system. This method is tested and the numbers are proven to be reliable. That is if I were to take more screenshots from the same scenes using the exact same set up the color counts vary little or not at all.

It is historically true that debate over the importance of maximum color counts affected the 16-bit consoles more than any other generation, just as it is true that game consoles and their games targeted consumers. The vast majority of consumers in the US did not have televisions with RGB or S-Video inputs by 1992. So we can assume that the Composite outputs represent a "best case" scenario for what consumers could actually see at the time.

This approach allows for the subjectivity by which games were, or were not, judged "more colorful" to be measured using standard statistical analysis. As a less pointed side effect one can see how many colors can actually be counted by modern software and subjectively compare that to how many colors are apparent to the human eye. No standard multiple exists between say 45 colors from the chip output to 61000+ colors from the Composite outputs. Based on these numbers however, one of three conclusions may be observed as more software is "polled" for Composite color counts. Each systems' game library may be shown to have roughly the same range of colors actually displayed. Some systems may be proven to generally display more colors than other systems by a consistent multiple. Each system may be shown to display totally different color count ranges with no obvious correlation to other systems.

As it stands today it appears as though the TG16, Genesis and SNES library typically output colors in the same range. Scenes in the low 1,000s represent static screens of mostly one or two colors for text and a flat color background. Whereas screenshots counted in the 100,000s are typically full bore action sequences with detailed backgrounds, more than three character sprites with simultaneous special effect sprites. Most gameplay related scenes linger in the 20,000-80,000 range. No game so far displays more than about 150,000 Composite colors by this method. Other forms of compression, and video filters boost the measurable colors significantly but uniformly. This implies that the Composite outputs of each system did in fact "normalize" the system's color outputs, but further data (not to mention other test methods) may prove otherwise.
Edited by sheath, Jun 18 2010, 08:31 AM.
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sheath
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I've finished the Genesis vs SNES console history page through 1991 and updated dozens of games with screenshots to the end of that year. I find the '89-'90 time frame and 1991 to be very significant to the history of video gaming as it set many precedents. It saw the first entry by an electronics giant to the video game industry and the first "vaporware" campaign in the form of the TG16 and Super Nintendo CD-ROM respectively. This era showed that even a monopoly in the video game industry could be taken back to the point of legitimate competition. Finally, it saw the beginning of a flood of well received software releases and press coverage that changed the gaming industry forever. I can't wait to get into 1992 and '93 now!
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sheath
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I decided to open the Game Comparisons Youtube Channel for the purposes of posting my unedited videos that are used to create the screenshots and comparison movies on Game Pilgrimage. Youtube seemed like the place to do this so I don't have to bog my server down with uncompressed videos of pure attract modes and gameplay.
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Belpowerslave
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Now that you've got the EverDrive...how about a full 32X library comparison vs the Genesis and Sega CD?

Bel
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sheath
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I could do a full Genesis-32X-SNES multiplatform comparison today. I don't own all of the multi-platform Sega CD titles I don't think (I won't put CDRs in my Sega CD 1). That sounds like as good of a place to start as any actually. Can you think of two or three you'd really like to see? I'll get to work on posting that Final Fight comparison just to get it done.
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Belpowerslave
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I wouldn't mind seeing Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure first. I'm thinking all three are going to be great...but will the Sega CD's redbook soundtrack and extra levels beat out the 32X version's higher color count...

Another one, just because I'd like to see if Sculptured Software really did anything with the 32X version, would be WWF: The Arcade Game for Genesis and 32X.

Toughman Contest would be interesting...but I honestly don't think they added *anything* to the 32X version.

NFL Quarterback Club, IIRC, uses some sort of scaling in the 32X version...not sure if it does on the Genesis.

BC Racers is one where they didn't really add anything, but sped up the game so now every fucking track takes less than 20 seconds to complete(man they fucked it up).

Brutal would be one I'd love to see the color count increase on...and I think they actually did make use of that on the 32X version.

You have the MK2 comparison up, right?

I, literally, could go through the entire library and find interest for each one. ;) I wouldn't mind hearing if you find any instances of better or more audio in the 32X versions. Every title seems to tout that, but it seems like they just add more speech to the game...the music is exactly the same as it was back on the Genesis version.

Bel
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sheath
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Ultra belated response time!

I would be very interested in doing a multiplatform 32X themed comparison, as most of the 32X library is multi-platform it just works. Now that I have the capacity to record in Windows 7 with the HVR 1600 I can absolutely get these rolling.

On a side note, I am in the process of adding all of the gameplay videos I used for screenshots this year to the Gamecomparisons Youtube channel. These cruddy flash conversions of my original MPEG-2 captures are also viewable at the bottom of the Game's fact sheets at Gamepilgrimage. So far I have uploaded shots and videos for Final Fight, Final Fight CD, Abrams Battletank, Castlevania IV, Castle of Illusion, Act Raiser, Jewel Master, Contra III, Duke Nukem 3D (Genesis), Formula 1 (Genesis) Street Fighter II Champion Edition (PC-Engine), SFII Special Champion Edition, SFII Turbo, Splatterhouse and Ninja Spirit.

There is plenty more where that came from too.
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sheath
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Oh yeah:

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DarcSeven
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Alright, let's see if I know what I'm talking about with this one. My thoughts from the video:
32X- It looks like it plays pretty well. At least in compairison to the SNES version.
SNES- Speaking of which...Wow, that looks like shit. Like, not even playable. o_0
DosBox- It's perfect. Next. ;) To be honest, I really can't see any problems with running it on DosBox on the video. If there are, I don't see it here.
PS- Looks like it runs well and I think the music's kind of cool in a dark kind of way. But it needs a flashlight or something. It's really dark.
3DO- Cool music, shit everything else. Does it seriously only run in a window?
Saturn- Kind of slow, but at least the lighting's okay.
Jaguar- Awful. Not SNES ugly, but pretty half assed.
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sheath
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That looks like a fairly reasonable assessment to me. Some of the problems I had were with the controller's D-Pads. My 3DO and Jaguar controllers just don't have the D-Pad sensitivity as the Genesis or Saturn (2nd Gen) pads do.

I would definitely not call the Jaguar game ugly, especially in comparison to any of its ports to the rest of the systems. If framerate and responsiveness were my only criteria I would rate the Jaguar in the top half of this comparison.

Dosbox had some issues that are more noticeable while playing. I made significant strides toward fixing it, but whenever an item is picked up both the video and audio skips. Aside from that, yeah, it's technically perfect because it is the original game in emulation. It also plays extremely well with a Saturn pad using Pinnacle Game Profiler.

Again, if framerate and responsiveness were my only criteria I would rate the rest of the games PS1, 32X, Saturn, 3DO, SNES. I do think each of these versions have their own unique merits and problems though. The PS1 game having scenes that are pitch black except for a one frame flash once in a while is a big deterrent to me, and I like the audio of the Saturn, 3DO and 32X games better.
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sheath
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This thread seemed like the best place to post my first 720p comparison video. I had a hell of a time with the second half crashing as I tried to output it. I ended up outputting only 1500-2000 frames at a time and then opening them up in a new project just to put them back together again. That process took about a week thanks to all of the failed outputs. I don't think I'll be making too many videos like this as a result.



I noticed that the Saturn game has a gamma setting after I finished the video, but from what I can tell it doesn't help with the really dark areas anyway.
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sheath
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Samurai Shodown for 3DO, Sega CD, Genesis and SNES comparison video:

View and Download the high quality DIVX video here.
Edited by sheath, Oct 1 2011, 08:51 PM.
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sheath
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Now for Art of Fighting for SNES, Genesis and PC-Engine Arcade Card CD.

View or download in high quality DIVX here.


Unless somebody chimes in with something more interesting, my next video will be BC Racers on Sega CD, 3DO and 32X. Following that, I am attempting to gear up and tackle Mortal Kombat 2 on Genesis, SNES and Sega CD and WeaponLord on Genesis and SNES.
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sheath
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It was past time for a BC Racers comparison. I found this very interesting. For example, the 32X version uses some sort of blending to mask the object pop-in while the 3DO version doesn't, but both have longer draw distances than the Sega CD game while not allowing for camera view changes. I haven't counted the frames or anything, but the Sega CD version just seems the smoothest to me, and I love that soundtrack.

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sheath
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Here is a comparison of Tomb Raider's first level in Dos, 3DFX (using Dosbox), PS1 and Saturn (using S-Video). It should be uploaded in about an hour.

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agostinhobaroners
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Hi, sheath!

Please, is there any chance of a cross-platform Pitfall comparison?

By the way, the Saturn version of Tomb Raider looks way too dark and it shows some bizarre geometric errors while moving... The PS1 steam problem is always disgusting too...
Edited by agostinhobaroners, Dec 4 2011, 11:09 AM.
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sheath
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Hey!

Yes there is a good chance of a Pitfall comparison soon. I only lack access to the Jaguar version at the moment. One way or the other I am looking forward to this one. I usually just do a comparison of the first two or three levels (or fifteen minutes) of a game unless requested otherwise.

On Tomb Raider, I tried to show the first level with as many different gamma differences as were reasonable to show the gamma levels of the various games. This is particularly evident just before the first door in the first level. I increased the gamma and then switched to the PS1 version, which ended up being even darker than the Saturn game for that segment.
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