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| GamePilgrimage request and complaints; Comparisons, Criticism, hopefully facts | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 9 2010, 09:43 AM (1,059 Views) | |
| agostinhobaroners | Dec 4 2011, 08:48 PM Post #21 |
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Kitten
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Yeah but the problem with the Saturn version is not just a matter of gamma or the amount of light, the contrast is waaaaayyy over and THAT is the main problem. Even when you managed to get it brighter than the PS1, the overall luminosity in the scene is still better in the PS1 version. The textures look darker in the Saturn version most of the time... |
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| Pleasure Kitty | Dec 4 2011, 10:37 PM Post #22 |
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Juke Box Hero
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Yeah, but the Saturn version's textures really were darker(this seemed to a real issue with the Saturn, and noticeable across virtually every cross-platform title). I remember when I finally made it to Atlantis, and the dark, horrible textures actually pushed me to the point of just dropping the game. Overall, I find the Saturn version to be an absolute disgrace compared to the PSX version...and both compared to the Open-GL versions of the game on PC/Mac. Bel(using PK's account again) |
| Word to your Mogwai! | |
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| sheath | Dec 5 2011, 08:11 AM Post #23 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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Yeah, the Saturn game is just darker, I agree. I think the PS1 version looking better is an optical illusion created by the full screen dithering and stretched aspect ratio though. The textures are the same, they just turned the blacks to greys. The polygon splitting issue of the PS1 game drives me crazy, I can handle the gamma in the Saturn game by comparison. I hope this video proves that the comparison is a lot closer than people online make it out to be. |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| agostinhobaroners | Dec 21 2011, 05:41 AM Post #24 |
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Kitten
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Steam? NO! Seam. |
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| sheath | Dec 21 2011, 07:58 AM Post #25 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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I knew what you meant my friend from the other end of the equator. ;) My skunkboard shipped yesterday. Provided I wasn't being lied to by one of Sega-16's regulars who insisted it won't play commercial roms, and provided Tursi wasn't lying on various forums when he said that it plays all commercial roms but Raiden. I will probably break it in with a Pitfall comparison video. I finally took the time to, you know, learn how to actually use my video editing software too, so expect this next one to be better than usual. Edited by sheath, Dec 21 2011, 08:36 AM.
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| sheath | Dec 31 2011, 08:31 AM Post #26 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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A glitched and standard definition version of my Jaguar-32X 2D Action-Platformers video will be available in a few hours at the portal below. Hopefully Youtube won't reject it for being 31 minutes long. I am going to leave my computer rendering the 1080p version over New Years, hopefully it will finish by Monday. -edited- The final full HD video is finished and uploaded at the link above. Edited by sheath, Jan 3 2012, 07:30 AM.
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| sheath | Jan 15 2012, 07:25 AM Post #27 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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Jaguar and 32X Fighting games. |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| sheath | May 17 2012, 12:31 PM Post #28 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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Jaguar and 32X racing games: Atari Jaguar (S-Video) and Genesis 32X (Composite) racers. Checkered Flag (0:17), Virtua Racing Deluxe (7:00), Power Drive Rally (21:52), Atari Karts (24:24), BC Racers 32X (27:42), Motocross Championship (37:03), Supercross (41:21), Super Burnout (46:10). Edited by sheath, May 17 2012, 12:31 PM.
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| sheath | Jun 15 2012, 04:09 PM Post #29 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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I started this little project trying to demonstrate my preference, I think the project convinced me I should change the way I play games. |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| sheath | Sep 7 2013, 03:59 PM Post #30 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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Okay first off, do we know each other? I don't know what you thought you would achieve by accusing me of propagandizing dead consoles and lieing right off the bat. I'm used to this kind of emotional response though, particularly from fans of mainstream consoles. The "up to 30%" defective NES is an estimate based on a recent study on defective PS3, Wii and Xbox 360 consoles after the now legendary "RROD" warranty extension. Now for the NES though, 30% is extremely conservative. You are correct that estimate is mine and not based on any source but personal experience. While I worked at retail, and whenever I have found an NES since then, I had to test and either repair or replace the pins for EVERY NES. How many NES owners developed the tendency to blow in their carts and experienced cart read errors the first several times they tried to load a game? I'd wager everybody who has ever owned an NES at one point have experienced this. I could say all NES's are defective based on this alone, but NES fans don't consider that a defect but more of a feature. ;) So, anecedotal evidence of the NES shows that its defect rate is at_least 30%, I was only being generous and assuming that anything higher than that would have resulted in a consumer outrage similar to the 360's "RROD" debacle. That also isn't even getting into the true fact that every NES has a glitch that causes the cells to change color or go blank on one side of the screen while scrolling. This was not repaired in any version of the NES and still shows up in low level emulators.
Both notable game lists are ongoing, but you can feel free to peruse the NES list and find any that have been missed by all gamers polled so far. I will add more games to that list, along with the explanation of why they should be added, based on two gamers taking the time to actually describe the gameplay and why it was either unique or exceptional. You are only taking the same stance all mainstream gamers do in assuming these lists are some sort of race to the finish to prove which system had "the most" or "the best" games. Such lists actually are incredibly stupid pissing contests and not what the notable games lists are about at all. I am also amused by your emphasis on "major releases" for the Master System and "months going by." Let me guess that a "major release" is only some sort of mainstream "hit maker" that results in sequels. You don't even stipulate what qualifies for your_list, or in what years Master System owners would have to wait months for what I presume you mean "good games". Again, the notable game lists, which are actually compiled from online reviews of the gameplay for each game, should be showing you to stop thinking in such simple terms. I am cataloging sources only for the sake of referencing them. The console histories are an expanding canvas of brief reviews of the primary and secondary sources, nothing more.
Your citing Kent or some online source I have only referenced really does show your ignorance. Each of the console history segments will continue to expand their references as I take the time to review the sources and cite them. Whether that changes the tone of any one statement is up to the sources not me. Nintendo invented the exclusive third party licensing contract and made it "normal" in the industry to do so. Nintendo locked down cartridge manufacturing in Japan to the point that even Sony didn't want to get involved in that media (See "Revolutionaries at Sony" for that one). Nintendo also made some of the best games in the industry, though I get the sense that you would only be satisfied with me saying Nintendo or their third parties made all_of the good games. I have also credited Nintendo for having a fairly unique approach to how it handled its sequels and franchises particularly on the NES. Nintendo's approach to franchise making was far superior to efforts by some of its third parties, like Capcom. So even in the NES days you have Nintendo the anti-competitive megacorp and Nintendo the innovative game developer. That's just the facts. If you don't think Nintendo was a monopoly, go back to the court case that ruled them so and overturn it. For the record, the console histories will eventually cite David Sheff's work in line with the rest, I just haven't gotten to that yet. Stephen Kent and Sam Pettus are secondary sources at best and will be treated as such. Kent and Pettus are counter points to my own writing tone. You do know that no matter how objectively a writer sets out his own view of things will inevitably leak into the writing?
Now you get to spout propaganda and still be the objective concerned gamer. How Post-Post Modern of you. Can you tell me which games on the Atari platforms are shovelware? Can you tell me how EVERY game released on the NES isn't shovelware? The notable game lists again should cause you to question this very dim narrative history. Nintendo coming in and saving the history is just a story with no facts to support it. The facts are Nintendo saw a market slump and jumped in with every possible anti-competitive policy to corner their target markets. If you think the NES library isn't padded heavily with "shovelware" you need to look at LJN and Akklaim a little more closely.
Where did you get 65% from? Maybe Sega had that percentage of month to month sales at some point but I have never seen it that high. In 1991 Sega had their hayday of sales, that was pretty much it. Sega's brief lead was gained at the cost of overmarketing. That means spending more than you are earning from sales in the hopes that you will regain the expense later. Sega did not regain the expense later, but they did break Nintendo's dominance and software monopoly in the process.
The few reviews, I am guessing you are looking at the old site now, that I have covered were simply a work in progress. At the time the majority of Usenet and Forum discussions were slavishly dependent on what the mainstream gaming magazines or websites said. Nowadays we are all a lot more cynical. Sonic Adventure virtually unplayable? Prove it. IGN was never objective, they were nothing but fan pages obviously. Not so obviously for most though. Shenmue a tech demo, the obligation is yours mainstreamer to prove it. You_will_fail.
Hah, ahahah, people in general have never shared my interests in anything. How does that help you in anyway. You are just trying to attack me personally. Attempting to do so through anything I say online is simply idiotic. Speaking of idiocy, who ever compared Sonic 2006 to Mario Galaxy? Who even remembers Mario Galaxy today besides Nintendo fans? As for your quantity, quality, diversity argument for gaming. Would you care to comment on controller lag and the problems that emulated ports of Arcade or Console titles introduce? |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| sheath | Sep 13 2013, 08:37 PM Post #31 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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I really do think this problem is all about monopolist capitalism. |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| sheath | Sep 27 2013, 02:27 PM Post #32 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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What exactly does "lasting appeal" mean about the game itself? I am not contesting that Sega games haven't stayed in the public eye. I can see a lot of reasons why that would be the case, their fast twitch Action nature at the forefront. Are you implying that the games you listed above are bad or "unfun" because they failed to become brands of their own? |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| sheath | Nov 7 2013, 07:00 AM Post #33 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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I just finished a Comparison Video for Flashback: The Quest for Identity on Genesis, SNES, Sega CD, 3DO and Jaguar. This one took over a week just to edit because my hard drive(s) were messing up while I was recording the gameplay, what you see in the video is basically all that was left and I had to manually sync the audio by ear. Hopefully between Barone and I we caught all of the remaining glitches. |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| Belpowerslave | Nov 8 2013, 03:25 AM Post #34 |
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Administrator
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I'll definitely dig in to this one! Though I'm not a huge fan of the game itself, I do own it on both Genesis and Sega CD and love to watch it being played. Did you get a chance to try new one on XBLA/PC/etc? I actually really enjoyed it...wouldn't mind picking it up at some point down the line... Bel Good God, I deleted this guy right after reading that. It takes a real Nintendo-dickhead-fanboy to make a statement like that. I challenge *anyone* to find someone who doesn't remember Afterburner or Spacer Harrier... I've gotta start paying more attention to my own damn forum...;) Bel Edited by Belpowerslave, Nov 8 2013, 03:29 AM.
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| sheath | Nov 8 2013, 04:09 PM Post #35 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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Heheh, well, I don't think he was going to support his "argument" anyway. I hope that Flashback video is useful to anybody who wants to look at the game or its console iterations. I enjoyed making it. |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| Belpowerslave | Nov 9 2013, 03:28 PM Post #36 |
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Administrator
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I think all of them look pretty good. To me, the best one is the Sega CD version just due to the soundtrack. Is it just me, or is the Sega CD version the only one that has music constantly playing in the background? You'd think the 3DO version would as well...maybe I just missed it. I own both the Sega CD and Genesis versions of the game, just because it's kind of nice to see the original rotoscoped version of the cinemas. Another great comparison...I really like the sound effects at the beginning, as well as the sound-bit intros for each system when its their turn to show footage. Bel |
| Whip Ass Gaming | |
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| sheath | Nov 10 2013, 11:19 PM Post #37 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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Hmm, I really should find sound bit intros for all of the systems. I think that should be normal. Sega systems are hard to find an identifiable sound for in particular. I refuse to use something like a Sonic ring sound, since they are used in gas station registers all over now. I suppose a random game sound effect, like I use for the GP intro, could work for those. The 3DO is actually silent during boot up, so I have no idea what I would use for it. Flashback on 3DO has no in game music aside from the cut-scenes. Off hand I don't even know if it has in game music in short bursts like the Genesis, SNES and Jaguar versions. I think I have a seen a discussion online about the 3DO not being able to DMA a lot of things from CD with streaming audio. So far though I have not seen that particular glitch/problem/limitation thoroughly documented. |
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| Belpowerslave | Nov 10 2013, 11:26 PM Post #38 |
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Administrator
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Well, for the Genesis, maybe just use the small bit where Sonic shakes his finger and sprinkles the Sega logo with dust from the Sega CD. Either that, or use the "SEGA" from Sonic 1. Or, you could ass-wild and use the "Seeeeeeggaaaaa" from Comix Zone... It wouldn't surprise me to hear anything like that about the 3DO...from what I've gathered it was just such an underpowered system. Then again, perhaps it's like the 32X and was just hard to tap its real power. Are there any actual differences in the various 3DO units, aside from the manufacturers? Bel |
| Whip Ass Gaming | |
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| sheath | Nov 11 2013, 10:30 AM Post #39 |
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I have been, and remain, non-sequitur
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I don't think any of the 3DO units were different, that was kind of the point of the 3DO business model. The CPU is underpowered, I have seen Chilly Willy compare it to the Sega CD and Jaguar's 68ks as nearest neighbors, versus the SH2 or ARM CPU in the PS1 being next gen. The REAL issue (ehehe) with the 3DO is that it is entirely API driven, no low level coding was possible during its life cycle. So what you see in the games is actually only whatever development kits would allow. I would say we have never seen the 3DO's fullest potential, and that it could have held out against the PS1 and Saturn in 1995 and 1996, but probably not much later. Also, I just found the discussion on the 3DO's audio. There really should not be a technical reason for no streaming audio. Maybe Sega had something to do with the Sega CD version's music? Did any other version have that music?
Edited by sheath, Nov 11 2013, 10:33 AM.
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www.gamepilgrimage.com Buy the games of yore before they are no more
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| agostinhobaroners | Nov 11 2013, 08:14 PM Post #40 |
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Kitten
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Hi, Bel! Great so see you alive and kicking again! Well, the new Flashback had some of the original designers and developers involved in the project (I've seen some interviews and stuff like that), so it looks like it isn't your average abortion-like remake. But it's far from being great or groundbreaking as far as I've seen it being played; some of the original atmosphere was replaced with some very generic new-era 3D stuff which I really dislike but it wouldn't hurt to buy it for cheap.
Thank God there's still minded people in this world. Too bad most of the moderators in other forums are far away from that IMO.
Yeah, that CDDA soundtrack is a Sega CD exclusive; all other CD versions (3DO, FM Towns, CD-i and PC DOS) have NO in game music aside from the ones in the cutscenes - yes, no "action segment" tunes like in the Amiga or cartridge releases as well.
Nope, it doesn't have.
There was a glitch with the very first SDK version but that was quickly fixed (by its release date, it was already fixed when the 3DO port of flashback was made) and, either way, it would NOT prevent a game to stream music but it would have some little glitches in the playback. Also, since CD-i, PC DOS CD and FM Towns releases didn't get any in game music (aside from the cutscenes) I think it was somehow a design decision when those ports were made.
The 3DO, as a whole, was quite powerful for the time. The CPU clock was sort of "low" when compared to the rest of the system though, but, still, it was quite capable for 2D, 3D and video playback.
Yeah, agreed. However, regarding the 3DO port of Flashback, the C API driven approach actually worked quite well. The cocksuckers over Tiertex (yeah, that UK company responsible for dozens of "worst ever" arcade ports (read "abortions") on the Amiga and stuff like the atrocious Turbo OutRun on the Mega Drive) handled CD-i, Jaguar, SNES and 3DO versions of Flashback and 3DO's is, by far, the most accurate, less buggy and the only with consistently good framerate of all those versions (even the Jaguar one has slowdowns here and there). So, I think, we may consider it an evidence (along with other "better than the most of the other shit" ports like Primal Rage and Soccer Kid) that the 3DO's API driven development approach allowed for non-atrocious results while very restrictive in terms of pushing the console hardware. Heck, the 3DO version delivers some basic stereo panning in Flashback like no other version and CG cutscenes in full-blown stereo unlike the Sega CD's (wow, ahahaha)...
In theory, no. In reality, hummm, yes... Goldstar units have compatibility issues with some games and/or run some of the games slower than normal and/or with glitches. Some people also claim that the audio quality may vary (to low, hehe) in the Goldstar models. Sanyo Try units are said to be a bit better but some games seem to have compatibility issues as well. Panasonic FZ-1 model has problems with CD-Rs and the laser assembly is said to be not as robust as the FZ-10's model. Also, the Video CD expansions are specific to each model, manufacturer and region; which is a major pain since those devices are already painfully expensive and rare. Some Japanese and Korean games also will not work in non-Japanese console units 'cause they need Kanji support in the console BIOS. Yeah, yeah, quite funky, eh?
As I've said above, it's Sega CD exclusive. I don't know and there's no evidence of Sega's involvement in the game credits (the music composer is a French fella who seems to have been a Delphine Software-related guy) nor any interview saying something about it AFAIK, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Sega Multimedia Studio or just Sega's money was used somehow somewhere somewhat in the process. I'm very used to the audio space/3D audio technologies of the time and the Flashback's soundtrack definitely sounds like have been mixed using some sort of special equipment; it's far superior, in terms of mixing and equalization to 99,9% of the soundtracks you'll find from European developers of the time (aside from the Sony-big-money-feeded Psygnosis which was pushing QSound, Dolby Surround and Roland Sound Space 3D stuff since around 1994) and I tell you that knowing the Commodore CD32 library soundtracks very well. Someone put some good money on that soundtrack production or the single guy behind it is a freakin' genius who had access and knowledge about some very good software for the time. The fact that the Sega CD version of Out Of This World (included in Heart Of The Alien) also has a superb exclusive supremely mastered and mixed soundtrack (far superior to the cheapo 3DO rendition) makes me think that Sega of America might have had some $erious influence in the production values of those games. As a final note about the Genesis and Sega CD versions of Flashback, those are the only ones which have the same lead programmer of the Amiga version; so it shouldn't be all that strange to realize that those versions have some serious advantages over the other ports - actually featuring a lot of extra sound effects and MUCH more music when compared to the Amiga version (it didn't had music for the cutscenes, to begin with). Also, the 12 Mbit Genesis cartridge has several sfx and music tracks more than the 16 Mbit SNES cartridge released significantly later - go figure why people say that Tiertex sucks balls. *There's no info about who handled the great FM Towns Flashback port (the only one in CD with rotoscoped cutscenes and with a unique soundtrack rendition for those); so looks like I'll have to play it to finish to discover something... Edited by agostinhobaroners, Nov 11 2013, 08:17 PM.
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6:26 PM Jul 10