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The future of miniature wargaming; How will 3D printing change the landscape of our hobby and Games Workshop?
Topic Started: Jan 29 2014, 04:01 AM (357 Views)
LORD VOKUL'NAX
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Corrupted Slann
Hello

I came across this article and thought it would make for an interesting discussion...

http://www.tested.com/art/makers/452866-how-home-3d-printers-are-disrupting-miniature-gaming/


Once the technology refines itself and the cost comes down could this be the downfall of Games Workshop? As suggested by the article, will other new competitors take centre stage? Or can GW shrug it off like the movie industry and torrented films? As a hobby in general, will this be for the better or the beginning of the end?

What does everyone think?
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Vantraxx
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The Thrice Cursed
Great read, i can't wait to get my hands on one!
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LORD VOKUL'NAX
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Corrupted Slann
I thought more people would get in on this discussions. I really think it will have huge ramifications (positive, negative or otherwise) on our hobby within a matter of years.
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NoisyAssassin
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The Chosen
Eh, it's really going to be one of those "wait and see what happens scenarios". Either 3D printing will become good enough and super popular, or it won't.
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GhostWarrior
Slave
[ * ]
It would seem to me that the best thing for GW to do is to lead the way in developing awesome 3D-printer designs, and sell those to shop owners with 3D printers or individual consumers.

Likely though, they will suffer from the classic 'innovators dilemma'. They're in a situation where they are probably the best suited to figuring out ways to make this technology work for miniatures, but providing such a product would cut into their profit margin in the short term.

They even have a great way to start testing the success of this technology - with terrain or game pieces (templates, markers and such).

If GW leads this innovation, then it will ultimately be better for them long term.

I guess we'll see. ;)
Edited by GhostWarrior, Jan 31 2014, 01:56 AM.
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LORD VOKUL'NAX
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Corrupted Slann
NoisyAssassin
Jan 31 2014, 01:16 AM
Eh, it's really going to be one of those "wait and see what happens scenarios". Either 3D printing will become good enough and super popular, or it won't.
I have no doubt that the 3D printing technology will be more than "good enough" in a few years. Once that level of quality is achieved and the price of the technology drops it will be very popular. 3D printing is going to be huge. I believe the question is how will our hobby respond/change.
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Khornefed
Exalted Guardian
The question is what happens when 3D printing becomes affordable for the average gamer. It will never replace molded production for commercial purposes because its too slow. You would have to have too many printers, and still charge a fortune for the maintenance and materials.

If it becomes affordable, even at the "upper economic tier" of the individual war gamer, then the question becomes one of design. It becomes the same question of sculpting yourself vs. doing recasts. And the equipment available for scanning a 3d object with sufficient detail to then reproduce it is another (currently) expensive piece of tech.

I client of mine recently spent $30K on a complete setup to do very simple 3d capture and reproduction. It works really well. But the systems he tested for anything less produced crap results. This was for a machine shop that specializes in reproduction of discontinued/obsolete parts. They still have to take the "printed" parts and machine them to get things to fit together at the needed tolerances.

I think we are a LONG way from seeing 3D printing replace miniature manufacturers.
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LORD VOKUL'NAX
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Corrupted Slann
Khornefed
Jan 31 2014, 11:39 PM
The question is what happens when 3D printing becomes affordable for the average gamer. It will never replace molded production for commercial purposes because its too slow. You would have to have too many printers, and still charge a fortune for the maintenance and materials.

If it becomes affordable, even at the "upper economic tier" of the individual war gamer, then the question becomes one of design. It becomes the same question of sculpting yourself vs. doing recasts. And the equipment available for scanning a 3d object with sufficient detail to then reproduce it is another (currently) expensive piece of tech.

I client of mine recently spent $30K on a complete setup to do very simple 3d capture and reproduction. It works really well. But the systems he tested for anything less produced crap results. This was for a machine shop that specializes in reproduction of discontinued/obsolete parts. They still have to take the "printed" parts and machine them to get things to fit together at the needed tolerances.

I think we are a LONG way from seeing 3D printing replace miniature manufacturers.
That's a great point on 3D printing not being able to take over at the manufacturer's level. I completely agree that the cost and speed would not make it worth while (at least for the foreseeable future).

As far as the individual war gamer goes, I don't think it is that far off. Take plasma TV's for example, a few years ago they would retail for $20,000 but now you can pick one up for only a couple of hundred dollars. It went from something that only the upper economic tier could indulge in to something that is relatively easily afforded by many. As far as the scanning 3D scanning goes, it is easily imaginable that it goes the way of torrents for movies and music. It just takes one person to scan and upload.

I think it will boil down to two facters....

1. How fast does the technology evolve to the point that it can flawlessly replicate a model with perfect detail

2. How long before the cost of such an apparatus comes down to below the level of the retail cost of the miniatures (and at the rate that GW keeps hiking the prices this might not be so far off ;) )

I think there is still a bit off time before we reach these milestones, but in my opinion it is definitely not a "long" way off. At the moment the technology is still in its infancy, but the rate of progression is staggering. That's how I feel about it, but I may be wrong. You do raise some very insightful points. I guess only time will tell.
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Terriss
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The Chosen
LORD VOKUL'NAX
Feb 1 2014, 04:00 PM
Khornefed
Jan 31 2014, 11:39 PM
The question is what happens when 3D printing becomes affordable for the average gamer. It will never replace molded production for commercial purposes because its too slow. You would have to have too many printers, and still charge a fortune for the maintenance and materials.

If it becomes affordable, even at the "upper economic tier" of the individual war gamer, then the question becomes one of design. It becomes the same question of sculpting yourself vs. doing recasts. And the equipment available for scanning a 3d object with sufficient detail to then reproduce it is another (currently) expensive piece of tech.

I client of mine recently spent $30K on a complete setup to do very simple 3d capture and reproduction. It works really well. But the systems he tested for anything less produced crap results. This was for a machine shop that specializes in reproduction of discontinued/obsolete parts. They still have to take the "printed" parts and machine them to get things to fit together at the needed tolerances.

I think we are a LONG way from seeing 3D printing replace miniature manufacturers.
That's a great point on 3D printing not being able to take over at the manufacturer's level. I completely agree that the cost and speed would not make it worth while (at least for the foreseeable future).

As far as the individual war gamer goes, I don't think it is that far off. Take plasma TV's for example, a few years ago they would retail for $20,000 but now you can pick one up for only a couple of hundred dollars. It went from something that only the upper economic tier could indulge in to something that is relatively easily afforded by many. As far as the scanning 3D scanning goes, it is easily imaginable that it goes the way of torrents for movies and music. It just takes one person to scan and upload.

I think it will boil down to two facters....

1. How fast does the technology evolve to the point that it can flawlessly replicate a model with perfect detail

2. How long before the cost of such an apparatus comes down to below the level of the retail cost of the miniatures (and at the rate that GW keeps hiking the prices this might not be so far off ;) )

I think there is still a bit off time before we reach these milestones, but in my opinion it is definitely not a "long" way off. At the moment the technology is still in its infancy, but the rate of progression is staggering. That's how I feel about it, but I may be wrong. You do raise some very insightful points. I guess only time will tell.
As someone who's worked in the lab of someone who is designing prototype LCD screens, I can tell you that that swiftness in price change you mentioned is saddled on almost a century of R&D of television technology in general. This is not something that 3D printing has going for it (only about thirty years or so). To say that this technology is in it's infancy is understating the issue.

Do I think that 3D printing will become commonplace to the average consumer? Probably. And probably relatively soon. As a matter of fact, you can find a number of entrepreneurial individuals on kickstarter that are trying to make this a reality today:
https://www.google.com/#q=3d+printer+kickstarter&safe=off

Now many of the sample pictures you see in these kickstarters look pretty intricate (Eiffel tower, namely), but they are NOTHING compared to most GW models (coven throne, anybody?) Currently, 3D printing technology doesn't have the resolution to scan and print models to the standards that any serious tabletop gamer would have to warrant the purchase of such equipment. Could the resolution up itself? In time, but I don't think we'll see it soon.

Now, I don't really see the obvious 3D printer use that everyone is clambering towards in most of these debates (I'll invite my O&G friend over with his army, we'll have a few beers and I'll copy his army for an afternoon). I see 3D printing, once it meets the price and resolution requirements, being an excellent outlet for the hobbyist sculptors. Combined with powerful 3D rendering software, I could see many amateur (and professional artists) literally building their own unique WarHammer army from scratch. Had a different vision for WoC in your head? Now you can make it a reality.

I think it will have a big impact on tabletop gaming, and the hobby as a whole, but I think more than anything, it will shake the foundation of the conversion-heavy community.
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LORD VOKUL'NAX
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Corrupted Slann
That is a great perspective on 3D printers being utilized for conversions. I think that would be a very welcome addition to our hobby.
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Dooley
That guy
Great topic, after reading this I investigated the 3d printing scene in Aus, which knowing current trends is behind by at least a year to Europe and the IS for this type of tech,
So they are printing to 10 microns which would do almost all model, the equipment seems to be still expensive for that res but if the market grows across industries this price will drop very quickly I have linked a quick vid from a reseller Aus with the details
http://3dprintingsystems.com/products/3d-printers/kevvox-3d-printers-overview/
With this type of product you could complete 4 models+ a day using cad so realistically you could make a finely detailed army the same as if you got it from GW with the same accuracy/in accuracy and air bubbles

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Vantraxx
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The Thrice Cursed
That monthly price is nasty! But hey being a fellow Aussie it doesn't suprise me at all... can't wait for this stuff to go mainstream
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