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| How can i use the hell cannon efficiently? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 23 2014, 04:34 PM (3,125 Views) | |
| Arfie | Jun 23 2014, 04:34 PM Post #1 |
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Slave
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Hi guys! Well i come here with a question regarding the hell canon... I played it twice for the moment (I'm new to the game, well came back recently in fact after 20 years...) and it didnt do anything in thlse 2 games... So i am wondering, am i doing something wrong or should i just give up with it and use those little skull crushers that seems really efficient ? I used the cannon as a rock lober, not as a monster btw.... |
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| Vantraxx | Jun 23 2014, 04:40 PM Post #2 |
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The Thrice Cursed
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Basic tactics would be put him on a flank, fire for a few turns and then get stuckin. He's unbreakable, has an AS, ward and the monster handeler save. Problem is with any shooting... the randomness is hard to deal with. I've had them 1 shot dragon riders, panic hordes off the battle and hold up units for entire games but like you have seen sometimes they totally suck because they miss, become enraged, misfire etc... i run either 2 or none. Give me skullcrushers any day... |
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| Wchumor | Jun 23 2014, 05:00 PM Post #3 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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I've used the Hell Cannon as well and it is very random when you shoot it. first the leadership test and then the artillery dice roll (witch in my case allways misfires ;) ) In my experience it works best when you shoot at large blocks of models or if the army you're playing against is a very compact army. It is a threat to your opponent because of the possibility of a large template s5 hit, and it is hard to kill, so he will at some point have to deal with it, because at some point it will hit something important. (or fail a leadership test and run off the table) I like it because I like to have a Shooting threat and because it allways draws some attention. And I think it is a funny concept the whole "MAD DEAMON TRAPED IN STUPID CHAOS DWARF CANNON" thing. But it is not the most reliable unit, and it costs 210 points. So if thats what you're looking for, I would not recomend it. Skullcrushers is a good alternative. No shooty, but very killy once they're in CC. :) |
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| Arfie | Jun 23 2014, 05:50 PM Post #4 |
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Slave
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Hmmm just to be sure... it uses the small round template, right? Cause you just said large template and then i could understand the 210 points... If it is the small one i think the skullcrushers are better, and dont understandnwhynits almost twice the price of the daemon skullcannon... |
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| R3do | Jun 23 2014, 06:05 PM Post #5 |
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The Warptongue
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It is SMALL template S5 and middle hole is S10. I use hellcannon almost in every list. Sometimes it is very effective and sometimes it is not. I use it mainly just to put my enemy into move and make him come to CC faster. It is really scary for opponent because it can make much damage when it hits. Also -1LD panic test after hit is no joke for low LD troops :) All in all, Hellcannon is definitely cheap for what it does as Stone Thrower and as Monster. |
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| Wchumor | Jun 23 2014, 06:38 PM Post #6 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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You are right. Typing error. I apologies :-) |
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| Jofarin | Jun 23 2014, 06:43 PM Post #7 |
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Clanlord
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Look at the profile... Skullcannon: T5 W4 3+ 5++ vs. Hellcannon: T6 W5 4+ 5++ 3*handlersave, unbreakable, terror The skullcannon is quite durable, the hellcannon is straight out unkillable. I had one hold 4 rounds against a doom wheel (3 shots with S(artillery dice) multiple wounds D6 and 2D6 S2 attacks per turn). Maybe a little bit luck was involved in this but besides a hortennse maybe I don't know of anything that could withstand that barrage of attacks for 210 points. And you don't even have to take break tests... |
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| guardian angel | Jun 23 2014, 07:01 PM Post #8 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Umm, gotta disagree with this....... nothing is unkillable! Especially if the dice don't favour you. Mine has died several times in tournament play, mainly due to being shot by other warmachines or poisoned to death. |
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| Jofarin | Jun 23 2014, 07:37 PM Post #9 |
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Clanlord
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Yes, nothing is really unkillable. It's as unkillable as the "unkillable tzeentch lord". And you have to focus A LOT on it: You can easily survive 4 cannon shots. Misfire, scatter, ward save, handler save->56% chance to not even hit once, and even if you hit once, you'll have to roll 5 or 6 for damage to kill it. With a little luck you can survive way more than that. And then the question arises "Why is no one stopping the cannons from firing?"... Poison is 1/6 for rolling a 6 to hit, 1/2 pass armor, 2/3 pass ward and 2/3 pass handler save, so statistically 135 attacks. Ok you'll have normal attacks too, but even with perfect to hit you'll probably need 6+ to wound, so less than the same amount of wounds, so at least 74 attacks, more realisticly 100+. |
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| Berghofer | Jun 24 2014, 05:38 AM Post #10 |
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The Undivided
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One of the keys is to know when it is better to move than to shoot. Is there a target easy enough to hit (block of x), and thretening enough to be worth it? yes? take the chance and FIRE! Maybe, or clearly no? Move it towards something that you want to hold up, while your other guys kill the other stuff. It can die, but you have to be actually unlucky for it to die to something worth less than 210 points.. Cannons first have to not misfire. Then hit, then wound, the you have 5++, then you have 5++, then he needs to roll 5+ for it to die... If that happens the first shot, you are just unlucky, and you could have been unlucky with your hortennse BSB as well ;) I run 2 Hellcannons most of the time. With "EDIT" 2! I meant 2, not 3!, they often do well, you are fairly sure that something will be hit by a S5(10) templatem and it will die. Or run of the board(I got 50 orcs incl. Lord, Lvl 2 and bsb once, on rerollable LD 8 after the -1!!!) It is random yes, but so is every stonethrower. I have had it hold a flank against 10 pegasus knigths who got the charge, and deal more damage than it took. I wasn't even that lucky. Often I also find them in combat during turn 3-5, stomping and holding whatever they are fighting, often killing it, or holding somethin important or expensive up for a good while. Sometimes they are unlucky though, but so is every other unit in my army, so no news there. 1 is a little too unreliable to me though, but I would still take it for the chance of hitting, and for using it as the SUPER monster that it is. Use it well, and it ROCKS! Edited by Berghofer, Jun 24 2014, 11:04 PM.
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| Arfie | Jun 24 2014, 04:45 PM Post #11 |
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Slave
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Why twice 5++? Isnt it a single ward save? |
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| R3do | Jun 24 2014, 05:07 PM Post #12 |
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The Warptongue
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They are speaking of randomise shots between Hellcannon and the crew. 1-4 is hit on Hellcannon and 5-6 is hit on crew so basically crew is second 5++ save for Hellcannon :) |
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| Colobos | Jun 24 2014, 06:30 PM Post #13 |
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The Chosen
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"How can I use the hell cannon efficiently?" Use it in a Chaos Dwarf army with re-rolls. |
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| Colobos | Jun 24 2014, 06:32 PM Post #14 |
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The Chosen
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...Ok sarcasm aside, try making the frontage 150mm and the depth 100mm rather than the other way around. No rules to say you cant do it, and it give's it a wider arc for shooting, and makes it harder for cannons to hit it - given it's depth is less. |
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| Vantraxx | Jun 24 2014, 08:53 PM Post #15 |
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The Thrice Cursed
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That does seem a little dodge but it is such a good idea. With my CD's they protect the flanks of my block of IG, larger width would be quite an advantage.... does seem dodgy still, i don't think it is in the spirit of the rules. Do real hellcannons even have bases? I scratch built my ones so i don't really know. I use an old movement tray made up as a base for my ones ;) |
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