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How can i use the hell cannon efficiently?
Topic Started: Jun 23 2014, 04:34 PM (3,132 Views)
GeneralofChaos42
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The Puppet Master
combined with Doom & Darkness, it's a nasty combo.
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Berghofer
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The Undivided
Colobos
Jun 24 2014, 06:32 PM
...Ok sarcasm aside, try making the frontage 150mm and the depth 100mm rather than the other way around.

No rules to say you cant do it, and it give's it a wider arc for shooting, and makes it harder for cannons to hit it - given it's depth is less.



Should it also be allowed to turn crushers to have a wider base, or your marauder horsemen, to give better cover?

Then, why is it ok to turn the Hellcannons base the wrong way araound just to get an advantage it doesn't even need?
Edited by Berghofer, Jun 24 2014, 11:12 PM.
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R3do
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The Warptongue
It is not right to turn bases. Even if it is not said anywhere which bases to use, it doesnt give you option to make them different. If this would be allowed, I could use 20mm bases for Skullcrushers or 100x150mm for one warrior.

There has to be sense in all of this :)
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Skigaist
Warrior of the Chamber
Hellcannon has never done much for me...that is until my last match vs Skaven. I centered the template over his General, got a strength 10 hit with 6 wounds and sent half his army running off the table. Game won, round 1.

I almost felt bad, but then again.. Skaven :)

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Jofarin
Clanlord
R3do
Jun 24 2014, 11:35 PM
It is not right to turn bases. Even if it is not said anywhere which bases to use, it doesnt give you option to make them different. If this would be allowed, I could use 20mm bases for Skullcrushers or 100x150mm for one warrior.

There has to be sense in all of this :)
He uses the base that the model comes with and actually where is written you have to face uneven rectangles to the short side?
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R3do
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The Warptongue
Jofarin
Jun 25 2014, 01:11 AM
R3do
Jun 24 2014, 11:35 PM
It is not right to turn bases. Even if it is not said anywhere which bases to use, it doesnt give you option to make them different. If this would be allowed, I could use 20mm bases for Skullcrushers or 100x150mm for one warrior.

There has to be sense in all of this :)
He uses the base that the model comes with and actually where is written you have to face uneven rectangles to the short side?
You are right. There is no base rules for 8th. BUT there has been some base size rules in the past (like in the 7th Warriors book) so it doesn't mean there is no base size rules at all. Also here is few things what you should look into when playing GAME which require sportsmanship.

Better rules of thumb:

This is a points-based, model-driven game. You can look at the models and (most of the time) buy them in stores. You see what bases they come on.
Then consider that a models effect in the game is affected by what base it is on, and if you change that, up or down, without changing the points you are paying for it, you should reasonably realise something is wrong.
It is a permissive rule-set; The rules tell you what you can do, not not what you can't... There is no rule allowing you to freely choose bases.
Don't listen to inevitable smartassery about going around "The base it was bought with" by giving your friend the model and then buy it back for 0.01 local moneys...
Don't go looking for loopholes, and don't abuse stuff... If you find that you get an advantage (or disadvantage) from a base size the stock standard model don't have, you are doing something wrong.
If you are planning on attending tournaments, check if the organizers have prepared a base chart like the old one from 2003. Quite a few use the French GT one, google for that.
Some concrete rules of thumb:
Small humanoid (elf, goblin, human) = 20mm,
Large humanoid (Orc, Chaos Warrior, Saurus warrior =25mm,
On a horse or rougly shaped like a big dog = 25*50mm,
Is it a wagon of some kind, or would a person not familiar with the game call it "a Dragon" ? = Chariot base
"Small" monster, (Pegasus etc) = 40mm base
"Big" monster (Griffon, Manticore) = 50mm base
Is it a War machine? They don't have bases...

Like the last states, War Machines really do not have base size. So when they come with base, you can put them like you wanna them to have without problems. But do not think you can do this with other models.

Also if you look at GW page from Hellcannon

LINK

You see from the picture and the info text that it comes with 100x150mm base. Not with 150x100mm base. So if you have sportsmanship then you put it that way. If you do not have, I donno why play this game at all.
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Jofarin
Clanlord
Nobody is talking about chosing a different base or trying “I bought it from my friend bullpoo. I neither plan on going to tournaments, nor switching the base of my hellcannon. Having a larger front has the disadvantage, that more enemy models can attack you on that side and with a free pivot before the shot, you only have a really small amount of charge arc you gain.
So I neither see the big damage that is done, nor a current rule that speaks against it. I think it`s a horrible mistake that GW is so sloppy in writing rules, but that`s a general problem. If someone would face me with this or other turned bases, I had no problem with it.
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Berghofer
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The Undivided
@R3do: +1. Agree with all you said.

@Jofarin: so, is it ok to turn horsemen on the bases to make them very wide while still looking forward? or dogs?
Edited by Berghofer, Jun 25 2014, 03:32 AM.
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R3do
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The Warptongue
I didn't say that someone is thinking to change base sizes. I just pointed out different base sizes in order to show that there is different base sizes also which has no rules of which size they would have. I do not have big problem if someone comes with different base size or has changed the "right base" to wider way. My point was that there should be some sportsmanship among us. If GW clearly states the size of the base to something like the new Hellcannon base, you really should use it that way.
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Jofarin
Clanlord
Berghofer
Jun 25 2014, 03:28 AM
@Jofarin: so, is it ok to turn horsemen on the bases to make them very wide while still looking forward? or dogs?
Sure.
5 horsemen based wide are a front of 200mm. They lose out on attacks against a 5wide opponent and eat every attack of a horde from the front. And you can`t even really hit the flank, but from a spot where you probably couldn`t have charged at all if based normal. Their rear is now huge compared to their flank.
What a stupid decision would that be???
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Jofarin
Clanlord
R3do
Jun 25 2014, 03:32 AM
If GW clearly states the size of the base to something like the new Hellcannon base, you really should use it that way.
Where do they clearly state that 100mm is the front?
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Ninth
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Warrior of the Chamber
Where do the rules clearly state that I can't reach across the table and smash my opponents models with a hammer if I don't like them?

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Jofarin
Clanlord
Ninth
Jun 25 2014, 04:03 AM
Where do the rules clearly state that I can't reach across the table and smash my opponents models with a hammer if I don't like them?

No one said they do.
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R3do
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The Warptongue
Quote:
 
Where do they clearly state that 100mm is the front?

If the 100mm is said first and if it is not the front then all the cavalry bases should be 50x25mm

I think you should start posting with sportsmanship and common sense what has been used since this game was invented.
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Benaiah
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The Chosen
I have to say that I feel like people are just trolling here. This has kinda sorta lost the point. It's obviously MEANT to be that the narrow end goes first on cavalry, otherwise I'd argue modelling for advantage even if it's not clearly stated anywhere.

Now back on topic:

I like to bring as many Hellcannons as I can to a fight. I own 3. I also don't own any skullcrushers... I just prefer my chaos warriors/heroes/knights/dragon ogres/trolls to be covered by magic and artillery as they make their way across the table.
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