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OTS and Choir; how do you play it?
Topic Started: Jul 27 2014, 11:52 AM (269 Views)
Vantraxx
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The Thrice Cursed
Greetings all, i had a hearty debate with my mate in our last battle. It arised from my Slaanesh Dp chargeing his phoenix guard in the rear. I cast choir in the magic phase and proceeded to roll 11 dead elves. He was about to roll his ward saves when i informed him of the other tricksters shard... this is where it gota bit sticky. My perspective was all the elves need to reroll because they are in b2b. This was probably unfair and i should have just said the ones in b2b when the spell is cast. He proceeded to outplay my cheese with an awesome idea: spells are distributed like shooting so he can pick elves that are not in base to base with him.... bam. It was at about 2am when this came up (4k battle that started around 9pm) so we wern't thinking too straight. We rolled on it and in the end just the guys in immediatw b2b were effected by OTS... anyway how do/would you play this?
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MonkeyMadness95
Warrior of the Chamber
The other tricksters shard brings up questions in my group too, as we don't know what happens to units with a ward save (daemons) when the tricksters shard is in base to base, do they have to re-roll the number of wards that the shard is in contact with? And what of the models that are I'm base contact with the enemy unit that are also in base contact with the shard, are the ward saves caused by them needing a re-roll too (sorry if I've worded this weirdly) :p the way we have been playing it is that all the wounds the character with the shard inflicts on the unit, those wards would need re-rolling, I'm unsure if that's the right thing to do, if anyone knows how to do it properly then please tell me :) concerning your situation, I would say that they should re-roll their wards as your in base to base with the unit, and in the rear so I think the wards should be re-rolled :) hope this helps, the tricksters shard is a weird and very interpretive item
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Nongor
The Chosen
Its not clear but the way I play is models in base to base only re-roll. So if I cause five wounds on a unit from cc attacks and three models were in base to base, only three dice would need to be re-rolled. Same with stomp attacks. It does make it difficult with attacks 'distributed as shooting' but i still play models in base to base re-roll. I can't back this up with an FAQ or errata though, its just my interpretation.
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RasputinIII
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The Chosen
I'm 97.5% sure it works like this (100% on the combat bit, 95% on the ranged bit):

In CC if you're attacking rank and file and some models are in B2B then all wardsaves must be re-rolled, since the controlling player (woc) can choose to allocate all attacks on models in B2B and thus effected by OTS.

In the case of ranged damage, the controlling player (unit taking damage) can choose to allocate the damage as it wishes and thus no one will have to re-roll wardsaves. This will only change if EVERY model in the unit is in B2B with the character with OTS.

The important thing to understand is that in combat its the attackers choice on how to allocate attacks. When hits are distributed as from shooting its the unit being shot that chooses who gets hit. I don't have page numbers, but I'm pretty sure its in there. Also, you're an arse hat if you try and argue that a unit of PG have to re-roll all their wardsaves from choir because 4 of their number is touch a DP. If you tried that on me in a tourney I'd zero your sports score immediately.
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Vantraxx
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The Thrice Cursed
RasputinIII
Jul 29 2014, 01:27 PM
I'm 97.5% sure it works like this (100% on the combat bit, 95% on the ranged bit):

In CC if you're attacking rank and file and some models are in B2B then all wardsaves must be re-rolled, since the controlling player (woc) can choose to allocate all attacks on models in B2B and thus effected by OTS.

In the case of ranged damage, the controlling player (unit taking damage) can choose to allocate the damage as it wishes and thus no one will have to re-roll wardsaves. This will only change if EVERY model in the unit is in B2B with the character with OTS.

The important thing to understand is that in combat its the attackers choice on how to allocate attacks. When hits are distributed as from shooting its the unit being shot that chooses who gets hit. I don't have page numbers, but I'm pretty sure its in there. Also, you're an arse hat if you try and argue that a unit of PG have to re-roll all their wardsaves from choir because 4 of their number is touch a DP. If you tried that on me in a tourney I'd zero your sports score immediately.
So what about Choir then?

I have OTS.
Choir is a spell so we distribute like shooting.
It is cast whilst i am in base to base with a unit.
We decided only the guys in immediate b2b had to reroll.
Are you saying noone has to reroll?

Also my disclaimer should have been clear. I play warhammer in my backyard. I'm not here to be a rule douche or to win at any cost. I am certainly not an arse hat. You will be happy to know you will never have to "zero me for sportsmanship" hahahaha! My brand of Warhammer is very different from yours... noone to cry to when things get sticky.... also noone to mark me down for an unfair army selection or unfair rules or any crap like that. It's just mates having a blast. All that is left is dead models, broken pride and a good laugh between good mates that have been at it for over 20 years... We fight the long war and we regularly get rules muddeled up from past editions and different game systems ;)

It made sense at the time because i was in hand to hand i was thinking the spell was distributed like in hand to hand. It was a simple mistake, no need to mark down my sportsmanship levels hahaha

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RasputinIII
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The Chosen
Vantraxx
Jul 29 2014, 04:58 PM
We decided only the guys in immediate b2b had to reroll.
Are you saying noone has to reroll?


Yeah, no one has to re-roll since choir is distributed as per shooting, so as long as he has 1 model not in B2B then he doesn't have to re-roll any saves.

Apologies if that came off harsh. I actually didn't read the first post, just the latter ones, so I wasn't aiming my comment at you specifically. I just meant that trying to claim OTS on choir it is pretty crummy thing to do in a game. I don't mean you're an arsehat because you weren't sure what to do in a rare situation, but I meant someone actively trying to do it is pretty low on the sports - tournament or friendly (more so the latter than the former).
Edited by RasputinIII, Jul 29 2014, 05:19 PM.
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Vantraxx
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The Thrice Cursed
RasputinIII
Jul 29 2014, 05:19 PM
Vantraxx
Jul 29 2014, 04:58 PM
We decided only the guys in immediate b2b had to reroll.
Are you saying noone has to reroll?


Yeah, no one has to re-roll since choir is distributed as per shooting, so as long as he has 1 model not in B2B then he doesn't have to re-roll any saves.

Apologies if that came off harsh. I actually didn't read the first post, just the latter ones, so I wasn't aiming my comment at you specifically. I just meant that trying to claim OTS on choir it is pretty crummy thing to do in a game. I don't mean you're an arsehat because you weren't sure what to do in a rare situation, but I meant someone actively trying to do it is pretty low on the sports - tournament or friendly (more so the latter than the former).
Yeah, reread my post and i guess i did come across a bit like an arsehat hehe
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Mungojerrie
The Chosen
No one will have to reroll if there are five or more rank and file left. If there are less the controlling player needs to allocate the hits evenly and therefore some models would get sharded if the amount of hits are enough.
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kris_kapsner
Clanlord
Yep, it is a gray ruling on the surface. But, any time you allocate hits "as shooting", then the rank and file take the hit. Allocations are in the hands of the player receiving the damage. So, as long as they can allocate hits on models that are not in contact with your DP, then they wouldn't have to re-roll.
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