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Dark Northmen - 2,500 points; Lots of suggestions on trial
Topic Started: Nov 3 2011, 04:24 AM (635 Views)
rothgar13
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Clanlord
Hey all,

Here's an interesting list that has been doing some rounds in my head. Let me know what you think:

Dark Northmen - 2,500 points

Core – 1,111 points:
50 Chaos Marauders, Great Weapons, Mark of Khorne, Musician
3 x 5 Chaos Warhounds
18 Chaos Warriors, Full Command, Mark of Khorne, Shields, Standard of Discipline [BSB and Sorcerer Lord go here]
19 Chaos Warriors, Full Command, Halberds, Mark of Khorne, Banner of Eternal Flame [Sorcerer goes here]

Special – 270 points:
6 Chaos Trolls

Rare – 410 points:
2 x Hellcannon

Heroes – 329 points:
Exalted Hero, BSB, Halberd, Mark of Tzeentch, Stream of Corruption, Talisman of Preservation
Chaos Sorcerer, Charmed Shield, Dispel Scroll [Lore of Fire]

Lords – 380 points:
Sorcerer Lord, Armor of Destiny, Infernal Puppet, L4 Wizard, Third Eye of Tzeentch [Lore of Shadows]

Grand Total: 2,500 points

A pretty straightforward list overall, this list has 4 different combat-worthy blocks, the double Hellcannon to guard the flanks, some Dogs to serve general chaff purposes, and arguably the strongest Lore in the game in Shadows. My Scroll caddy gives me a bit of flexibility by allowing me to swipe some spells from my opponent, and my BSB will reinforce what is already a rock-hard unit of Chosen.

Comments and suggestions welcome. :)
Edited by rothgar13, Nov 19 2011, 12:48 AM.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
while I agree with most of the list, I don't see the point of non marking the warriors. Even that razor banner doesn't look good to me.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
D'oh! Forgot to mention the Marks again, apologies.

The reason behind the Razor Banner is that otherwise, this army has no tin can opener - even 4+ armor would otherwise get a save. That -3 armor has proven to be crucial time and time again, against Bretonnian Knights (a sneakily bad matchup for Warriors), Saurus Warriors (nothing sneaky about them, they're just good), or Empire Greatswords. Negating those guys' saves is worth the entry cost IMO, plus it helps the BSB fend off enemy characters as well.
Edited by rothgar13, Nov 4 2011, 05:02 AM.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
I'd rather go with a blasted standard, but it's just my opinion.
I see you are quite confident about all these frenzied unit......in my circuit almost every army has at least 4-5 redirectors sich as harpies ecc., so I see frenzy like a huge risk.........playing shadow I think you could try something different on the warriors, like HW+Shield, or even a 2HW option
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
AHW is strictly inferior to Halberds in most relevant situations, and Shadow is mostly here for the "problem-fixing" spells, like Pit of Shades, which I expect to be 6-dicing with regularity, so I don't see myself really taking advantage of all the cool stuff Shadow can do (not in one given turn, anyway). Additionally, The Enfeebling Foe to keep my Chaos Warriors alive is a better cast than The Withering more often than not, and if it isn't, it means that even S5 isn't getting through regularly, so S4 would be even worse.

Having 3 Frenzied blocks is a bit of a risk, but at Ld8 with a re-roll, I only have a 7% or so chance to fail to restrain. That's a pretty acceptable gamble for ItP and +1A.
Edited by rothgar13, Nov 4 2011, 11:30 PM.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
I am more concerned about forced pursuit/overrun.
BTW, 5 attacks per base model are naaaaaaaaaaaaaasty if backed with mindrazor/withering, but sure that's more like a gamble.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
It's actually 4/model on Chaos Warriors (2 base + 1 AHW + 1 Frenzy), but I see your point. I guess I'd rather have a higher base effectiveness, and that lets me expend my power dice on keeping the fellas alive instead of supplementing their killyness.
Edited by rothgar13, Nov 5 2011, 01:25 AM.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
i was counting the support attack. BTW, I know that casual power dices are hard to deal with. Power Familiar + Homunculus is a good way out
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Yeah, been considering that a lot. Depends on how much mileage I get out of the Scroll or the Puppet - if one of them slips up, I see myself throwing the Power Familiar in there, just to see what happens. Good ideas, man. I appreciate the discussion. :)
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Quote:
 
2 x 5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, Javelins, Mark of Slaanesh, Musician


Not a massive fan of these, I would rather drop them and take 3 units of hounds and save myself some points.


Quote:
 
19 Warriors, Full Command, Halberds, Mark of Khorne, Shields, Banner of Eternal Flame [Sorcerer Lord goes here]
19 Warriors, Full Command, Halberds, Mark of Khorne, Shields, Razor Banner [BSB goes here]


Units are two big, with halberds you only need 18 guys, if it was me and I was using the ironcurse icon I would have the sorcerers units with MoT and banner of rage and give the other unit the banner of eternal flame.

Quote:
 
Rare - 410 points
2 x Hellcannon


I think two is two much, especially with items and spells that can kill them on I tests

Quote:
 
Exalted Hero, BSB, Book of Secrets, Dispel Scroll, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield [Lore of Shadows]


Problem with this guy is he can be sniped from the unit with lore of death very easily and when he ends up in combat he only has a 3+/5+ save, I think I would feel safer with a 3+ ward and a halberd.

Quote:
 
Exalted Hero, Biting Blade, Disc of Tzeentch, Mark of Tzeentch, Shield, Stream of Corruption, Talisman of Preservation


Does he really need a wardsave from more than shooting and magic? would he not be better off with a dragon helm, goldern eye of tzeentch and a halberd, still gives him a 2+ save, increases his strength and can fit another item on if you need it.

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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Yep, he needs every bit of protection he can get, because I'm going to throw him at anything that I feel threatens me, if need be. I'm also expecting to transition into slamming into the flank of a combat that my Warriors engage.

The Warriors are 4 ranks strong for various purposes, one of the more important ones being breaking enemy units - if I have 2 ranks beyond the first after a combat, I have a shot at negating steadfast, and if that's not an option, I can just reform to 6-wide.

I would feel safer with a 3+ Ward on my BSB as well, but while the re-rolls are great, the general utility of the guy is what he's there for. He's a Scroll caddy AND a Miasma spammer AND a BSB. Given that, I'm just going to have to live with his fragility.

The reason that I'm packing two Hellcannons is they make for some of the best flank guards in the game, they provide shooting if they find themselves out of position to fight, and they hurt infantry units pretty badly. It's vulnerable to I tests, sure, but so are Hydras, and they're still worth bringing, and part of that is because nothing else in the army is vulnerable.

I've fallen out of love with Dogs. They fill the dummy drop and screener roles very well, but they're useless for everything else. The MoHorse provide a lot more general utility - I can count on them to not run away, I can count on them to smash war machines with their S5 Flail swings, and I can count on them to get there quickly thanks to M8 and Vanguard. Not to mention that Javelins make them a lot better to pluck out stuff like Fanatics.
Edited by rothgar13, Nov 6 2011, 08:12 AM.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Think is if you worried about ranks then you should take some solid anvil units, problem with khorne warriors is they only have a 4+ save (in combat) so its very easy to knock enough models off so they can break steadfast. Khorne warriors should always be used either 6/7 wide.

The wardsave is more important on the BSB with your leadership of 8, frenzy and if you lose combat, your also giving away extra VP's by not protecting him. You don't need to spam Misama against most armies because your troops already have good stats, I'm not even going to go into the damage the miscast will do, if your only rolling one dice at it then its 33% chance of fail which means you can hardly spam it if he fails a 1/3 of the time.

Yes We all know how good hellcannons are, you still don't need two, this seems very similar to this logic you need two of anything in 40k for it to be any use, sad thing is now we are seeing more and more monsters that are able to deal with these with ease.

With the disc guy I would rather keep my BSB alive than a disc rider, hes more important and golden eye protects him from the main things that will target him while allowing more important characters the protection they need in combat.

You can count on hounds to smash most warmachines on the charge as well, they don't need to cause wounds to break them, the only ones that are a problem are dwarfs, usually they can tie them up until your army is in combat. My experience with hounds is they generally kill a crew or two, the crew sometimes kill one and then the crew flee because of the combat res (usually winning by 2-3). using hounds just means you can save points and buff up your combat units.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
So you would propose taking up the Warrior units to 24 (including character) so that I can do 6 x 4, give the BSB a better Ward save, and swap the 2 squads of MoHorse with 3 squads of Dogs? I guess I can get behind that, though I'd ditch the Disc Rider in that case - I don't feel he's safe on his own without those big saves.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
That sounds much better, I think the disk rider will be fine with golden eye
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Thanks for the comments. I've done some pretty extensive editing to the list - let me know what you think of this one. My main concern is that running two 6 x 3 Warrior blocks may be spreading them a bit thin, and maybe I could be better off running a 6 x 4 and squeezing in a Hellcannon or something.
Edited by rothgar13, Nov 11 2011, 06:20 AM.
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