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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 23 2011, 10:29 PM (2,295 Views) | |
| Kormak | Dec 7 2011, 06:51 AM Post #121 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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Maybe I didn't make this clear, no could be wrong, you are 100% wrong, I have played since 4th ed, daemons came out first, this is why WoC got a WD list for a few months, I remember because I went out and bought the WD list so I could continue to use my Chaos list, daemons have never had a WD list during 7th ed, WoC have.
I'm not wondering, americans are more competitive than english people, goes back to school, everyone is a winner in the uk, even if you come last, magic is a terrible game, now wanna talk battle tech, star wars CCG, star trek CCG, vampire CCG and I might be interested.
Kings of war isn't as stream lined as warhammer, seriously? are joking? you don't even remove models! warhammer does no such thing, erm, have you actually read the rule book? I mean seriously so many rule questions, its designed for fun, not for competitive play, chess is designed for competitive play, warhammer is nothig like chess.
Your being pedantic, monster and handlers allow a 5+ save against wounds inflicted against it, every one of these passed kills a crew member, in effect its a 5+ wardsave. I assume that people understand the rules when I write a post, was I mistaken on this? have you not read the "crew jump in the way save"? thats a standard monster and handlers rules which annoys people to no end. Edited by Kormak, Dec 7 2011, 07:06 AM.
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| Terriss | Dec 7 2011, 07:43 AM Post #122 |
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The Chosen
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Kormak, I do respect your knowledge as someone who has played this game for a very long time, but you speak to others in a very condescending tone. I never claim to know as much as you, and in fact want to learn more from you, but I don't want it to be at the behest of my getting ridiculed. Now, sorry I didn't remember correctly. Like I said, I came in at the end, and have a fuzzy memory that is obviously incorrect. Maybe the store ran out of Daemon stock that day, and that's why I didn't see anything Daemon related... I won't bother continuing the competitiveness discussion further. That's a whole new world of debate and discussion with oppinions even more varied than ones that are expressed in this thread. I never thought that magic was a terrible game. I enjoyed it for the six or so years that I played, then I got into MageKnight and not too long after WarHammer. The games were just more fun to me. I played one game of star wars CCG. It was fun, but I never got into it (nothing against the game, for me it's like saying I like Dr. Pepper but bought a Mountain Dew at the vending machine instead.) Kings of War just felt clunky to me. I dunno, maybe I just had a bad game. I only played one game and watched a second, but it just felt that way. As far as WarHammer in relation to competitive play, for rules questions and so forth, it's all in how often you play the game. Now, I really do not mean that as an insult to you. You said that you've played since 4th edition, that is far longer than almost anyone I know, and I'm sure that you consult the rule book frequently for small rule issues and grey areas. But, like anything, the more you do it, the easier it is. Have you ever played Dungeons and Dragons? In Dungeons and Dragons 3.5, the grappling rules were regarded as far too overly complicated to be even used. My group ended up using grappling so much that we went from the point of spending a good 25 minutes on one turn of grappling, to settling extended grappling combats in less than 8. We did it so much that each stage and each rule came to the forefront of our minds immediately; we knew what to do without the book. It's the same thing with WarHammer. I try to stay away from generalizations, but I'd like to think that the predominance of people playing at grand scale tournaments (like 'Ard Boyz) have had a few years of playing under their belts, and rules come to them very quickly. I've heard the phrase that WarHammer is "chess with dice." The speaker was referring more to the key elements of the movement phase and encouraging your opponent to do what you want them to do, but I feel that it applies nicely here. I aplogize for my pedantry, but it's just how my writing comes out. If it bothers you, I'll try to tone it down. I misinterpreted you when you said "Ward Save." At the table whenever I play, I and whomever I am with always use the phrase "Allocate." The way I read it, it was to simulate the random confusion of close quarters combat around a titanic killing machine; roll a 5-6 and that crew member was in the wrong place at the wrong time. |
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| Kormak | Dec 7 2011, 07:47 AM Post #123 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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Everyone makes mistakes, thing is you continued to discuss the point of what was released first, I'm seriously not messing with you, I remember the order it was released because I had a combined chaos list, the daemon came out first and like many people I was like "what does this mean for my warriors". Its something that has stuck in my mind because its one of the times I felt like GW actually bend me over the desk and gave me a proper shafting. I think people read far to much into what is written online, as I said before I am just blunt (and in the process of sobering up :( ), take offense if you want, thats who I am, you should see me when I'm drunk in a bar lol.
Well I tried magic but I dunno, I could never get into it, its funny because battletech was basically the same system but me and my friends loved it, might be the crowd it attracted (one who is still on my death list for stealing cards from SW CCG collection). I was a massive star wars fan so going round killing people with darth vader kinda appealed to me ;) (I do collect chaos so hardly surprising). decipher certainly made the most interesting games, we also tried the B5 games as well, was ok but needed more than 2 people and always ended with one guy being ganged up on and then the other having a fight, thankgod I had my Vorlons :D :D
Well I read the rules and it felt like warhammer over simplified, hell the rules fitted on a A4 bit of paper!
Played D&D, vampire the masquerade, werewolf the Apocalypse, mage the Ascension ( I used to GM in that, thats a bloody nightmare!!), star trek RPG, west end games star wars RPG, warhammer RPG just to name a few :p. Thing with playing warhammer at tournaments and playing RPG's is you don't have a GM, when you play warhammer in a competitive environment people will try and twist every rule they can just for that extra point, its very sad. When you play a RPG you have a GM who just tells you how it is, wanna hit that guy then roll this, you need 9 on a D10 (more a whitewolf player and used to a D10 system).
Chess is nothing like warhammer, chess has very straight easy to learn rules, chess is however easy to master, warhammer its all about the list you use, completely different to chess, you both have set pieces so and the whole game is about strategy.
I wouldn't worry, I just assumed you where being pedantic, I have seen people go "you don't have wardsave in 40k", I mean its clear as day what someone means and it a very common thing for people online to do. The rule however works against everything so this is why I class it as a wardsave, got a cannon, opps the crew member jumped in the way (I love it when that happen :D), got a silly spell, well crew member really loved his pet daemon. Its a silly rule really and I just assume people understand what I mean ;) If you have ever posted on warseer you would understand why you just assume people are being pedantic ;) Edited by Kormak, Dec 7 2011, 08:12 AM.
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| Terriss | Dec 7 2011, 08:47 AM Post #124 |
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The Chosen
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Kormak, I didn't mean to profess a knowledge that I clearly was lacking in. I was simply trying to clear up my memory and figure out where I got confused. I knew you were right, I was just trying to figure out where my head was. I appreciate you actually taking courtesy to my post. It's rare to find someone online whose willing to just say "no worries, mate!" I apologize for reading too much into your post, and I will try to avoid doing so in the future. Now, don't sober up too fast, my friend! No fun in that! :P In terms of Magic, to each their own. In my area there was Poke'mon and Magic...and that was it. I played both for quite awhile, and then got into Yu-Gi-Oh when it came out (I was 8, don't judge me. :'( ) In retrospect, I thought Yu-Gi-Oh was the best card game (system wise) that I've ever played. The "fluff" just got too over-the-top to me to really continue... LOOK AT THE NEW ULTRA-LASER-DIAMOND-SPACE-CRYSTAL SET! ^o) Mage the Ascension was a very bitter tasting RPG for me...one of those "one and done" deals for me... I have to say that I agree on your point with the DM. Sadly, the closest thing to a godlike figure like that is the referee. Agreed on the vast differences in chess and WarHammer...I still feel that they have some sort of root in how I mentioned earlier, but after reading what you wrote, I guess it makes sense why I'm horrible at chess and good at WarHammer. On the matter of the pedantry...this is my first WarHammer discussion board. I made a post once on Librarium, because I couldn't get a clear answer on a rules question, but beyond that this is my first. I'm still grasping the lingo and the spoken (written) interpretations of the game in terms of it online. That was probably my misconception. Can't say I've ever been on Warseer, so I'll take your word on how they post over there. |
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| LORD VOKUL'NAX | Dec 7 2011, 09:11 AM Post #125 |
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Corrupted Slann
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No judgement... I loved Yu-Gi-Oh! I never played the game with the actual physical cards, but rather on my Nintendo DS. It was/is a great game! Edited by LORD VOKUL'NAX, Dec 7 2011, 09:12 AM.
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| Kormak | Dec 7 2011, 09:15 AM Post #126 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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Terriss. It's cool, no need to dwell on it! Well I wouldn't be home right now but the lady decided I had to wait for my Bday present :( I tried pokemon, we sold it in a shop I worked in, terrible game with a terrible cartoon series, now if you said transformer CCG you might be on to something, I also seem to remember a game called Rage based around wereolves :) Mage was a damn nightmare to play from what I remember, its the rules, so lose, I prefered vampire as you it was more "your vampire has this, he can so this" rather than "you have this sphere, this sphere and this one, can I break the rules of reality like this". At tournaments you do have your judges but its not the same thing, you can easily get caught out with the odd rule, then you have this whole debate as RAW (rules as written) vs RAI (rules as intended), you also have the crowd that insist common sense has no place in warhammer. I will let you off, comes down to people from different back grounds, country's and what not, British middle class tend to use the English language in a very sloppy way (ie me). |
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| Judgex83 | Dec 7 2011, 09:33 AM Post #127 |
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The leech lord
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Rage was a fun game but I dont think anyone playtested it because it had quiet a few combos that if played at the right time you could make your team immune to damage entirely. I will judge you Terris for playing yugioh you should be brought out back and beat with a stick lol JK
Edited by Judgex83, Dec 7 2011, 09:34 AM.
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| Kormak | Dec 7 2011, 09:42 AM Post #128 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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Me and my mates only played a few games of Rage, thats only because we played WoD RPG's, we played more vampire the eternal struggle (need to find someone who plays this!). |
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| DarkChilde | Dec 7 2011, 11:36 AM Post #129 |
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The Chosen
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Kormak, I read the rules package on the link for the Throne of Skulls that you posted. It looks like a real blast. It's not comped, but has a system for player decorum. One thing, that I would like to add that you are correct Americans as a whole are very competitive, and while we don’t have a favorite game/match rule like in Throne of Skulls some independent tournaments and store leagues will have a sportsmanship score to rate your opponent. Thus, if someone is being displaying poor sportsmanship or consistently builds a list you don’t like you can give them a low rating in sportsmanship even though they may have won the game and this sportsmanship score could possibly effect them later like for example if they are tied for winning the tournament with another player, but the other player has a higher sportsmanship score then the player with the lower sportsmanship score could would come in second instead of first place, etc. One point that I would mention on comps is that you stated ideally once all the Warhammer armies are updated for 8th edition then theoretically comps may not be needed. I don’t think this will be the case as 1) It seems like that once all the Army books are nearing completion for an edition GW then releases the next edition of WH (am I wrong in this?), and 2) so far three army books are out and already on the Ogre boards some people and thinking the ironblasters are going to be comped fairly soon, but nothing certain yet. I have a question, seing as how you have been in the game awhile out of the three top armies you mentioned (Skaven, Lizardmen, and Dark Elves) absolutely everyone hates playing skaven, but between the other two Lizardman and Dark Elves as a WOC player which one do you think is worse to face off against? Darkchilde P.S. I'm glad to hear that since I like beer I should do okay in the U.K., and if what you say is true about American women liking British accents I just hope when I get over the Brit chicks like a good ole' Southern (South Eastern United States) drawl. ;) Edited by DarkChilde, Dec 7 2011, 11:45 AM.
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| Kormak | Dec 7 2011, 06:28 PM Post #130 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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DarkChilde, While sportsmanship are a good idea they still don't stop the rules debates, I have never meet a person who goes "you half a inch out, don't worry about it", I usually do that, tournaments make people become very anal about everything, I don't understand why in the UK, most of them don't give prizes! The throne of skulls is ok but something that annoys people is that you can use a really bad army and win the whole thing just because you took a bad army and did better than the other 3 guys! I wouldn't mind going again for a laugh, I will just have to grit my teeth if I play against skaven :( While 9th ed might come out before the finish all the armies (they are however getting redone pretty quickly) judging by past releases the next release of warhammer is more likley to be a tweak of 8th rather than a revamp, in the time I have played I have noticed a pattern. 4th to 5th ed was just tweaking the rules, minor changes but it still felt like the same game, 5th to 6th was a massive revamp, bigger than 7th to 8th, they scrapped all the armybooks (like many felt should have been done with 8th). 6th to 7th was again more tweaks to the rules rather than massive revamp, this is why 6th ed army books still performed fine (until the big 3 got redone). 8th was again a massive revamp, they only do it every few editions to keep the game fresh, I would expect 9th ed to be more like: Tweaks to magic lores - nerf mega spells, I think the army books show they know they took them to far Tweaks of miscasts - Make more deadly Tweak to Cavalry - make them more viable Tweaks to ASF - They may well remove the reroll or allow rerolls with great weapons, this I think will depend on what they do with HE. Tweaks to templates - I expect nerfs Tweaks to chariots - I expect buffs Tweaks to monsters - I expect buffs Really that kind of thing, enough to shake up how people play the game but nothing major, it will be more like warhammer 8.5. Skaven without a doubt, dreaded 13th just kills our most powerful builds, lizards are good without doubt but they won't crush WoC the same way and while we have 3rd eye it gives us a chance, combine this with puppet and we are ok. DE are ok to fight, people seem to spam Xbows and hydras which are both easy enough for warriors to deal with. Hah, british like anything with a pulse ;) |
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| Terriss | Dec 8 2011, 08:19 AM Post #131 |
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The Chosen
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In retrospect, Poke'mon was a badd game, but I was six and the only thing going through my mind was "ZOMG POKEEEEEMOOOOON!" Now that all my self respect is on the table... Mage was a nightmare...but for some reason, I love it. The game is way too slow, it's not really exciting, and all the rules make it seem like it's not meant to be played...plus the minis fall to pieces if you exhale too hard...but something about it just draws me...I still play once in a great while with my friends. RAW vs. RAI debate is one that will rage on until the economic apocalypse (which according to my girlfriend's father is happening this year,) and then beyond that, so I'm not going to even bother trying to add to it. I will say this, if I ever get into a dispute with someone, I always hold up a die, say "Odds I do, evens I don't?" Shake hands and have them roll it. It seems to work well. They don't feel like I'm insisting on something they see as wrong, and that way I don't feel like I failed in pushing something. I also agree that 9th edition will be 8.5. I do want to add something in on the matter of revamping all the books, however... A dude in the local gaming group that I frequent mentioned that he actually had the opportunity to talk to a GW Dev team member. He asked him if Wood Elves would see any re-making for 8th, and the GW employee said no. He went on to elaborate, that it's not likely, because there isn't really an effective way to fit their fluff to playable rules. He said that any play tests that they conducted, they found that wood elves were either ASTRONOMICALLY over-powered, or no better off then they were. He simply said "Wait for 9th edition." Now I tend to take his words with a grain of salt (he's pretty heavily medicated most of the time...not his fault, his back is held together with duct-tape and toothpicks), but what was claimed to have been said doesn't surprise me. If anything new comes in 9th edition...please...even if it's situational...give me SOMETHING TO GO FIRST AGAINST ELVES, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD...I know there are magic items and spells, but I really miss the whole "I charged, I strike first." Edited by Terriss, Dec 8 2011, 08:19 AM.
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| Kormak | Dec 8 2011, 09:33 AM Post #132 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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Well being 6 I might let you off :p this time :P Well with mage I did love all the extra books like the mage chronicles (sadly sold them off :( ), it certainly had a lot of scope of what you could do with all the spheres which of course made it hard to decide what kind of things to allow players to do, then you had all the back lash for doing. Was always more a vampire fan but who doesn't like vampire right! pitty they redid it all, I don't like all the new clans. lol, well sadly you can't do that online :( Done that a few times, mind you a mate of mind I found changes the rules depending on the sitution, last time we played warhammer he tried to argue that you can use shields and halberds because the mini rulebook doesn't have the actual rules for 2 handed weapons :huh: Without a doubt 9 will 8.5, I do actually wonder how long 8th ed will be about, I wouldn't be surprised if its a short edition unless they decided to make more use of WD, the BRB magic lores (well some) need fixing and I think the need to up the risk of rolling 6 dice on a spell, to often it can end a game in a couple of turns :( I agree that striking in I order was a change to far, I think if they had left striking how it was but added in stepup then it would have been fine, this would have removed the need for rerolls to hit with ASF which has made SM just to much for WoC to deal with in combat :( |
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| Terriss | Dec 9 2011, 07:24 AM Post #133 |
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The Chosen
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I blame this: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1570033 |
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| Kormak | Dec 9 2011, 09:40 AM Post #134 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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It was with empire :p |
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| rothgar13 | Dec 9 2011, 01:14 PM Post #135 |
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Clanlord
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O.o |
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10:45 PM Jul 11