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| New Armybook Wishlisting!; Let's wishlist here | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 24 2011, 03:45 PM (1,015 Views) | |
| Judgex83 | Dec 8 2011, 01:47 AM Post #46 |
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The leech lord
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Beastmen are no longer chaos and as far as the new book is concerned they never were, have you read the new book they redid the entire lore for them. What respectable god would have a bunch of goatmen fight for them anyway? the giant follows chaos around and since the gods are watching their warriors anyway its more of a right place right time kinda deal for giants as far as being marked goes. Plaguebearers are also demons made directly by nurgle you cant compare them to mortals of chaos. Who cares if -1 to hit does not affect warmachines it would still be a damn good mark. |
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| Kormak | Dec 8 2011, 02:06 AM Post #47 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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Beastmen are the children of chaos, they have always been the children of chaos, hence why they have access to chaos spawn. 4th ed Daemons, warriors and beastmen could all be mixed, 5th ed had one massive chaos book with all 3 in which could be mixed through ally rules, 6th ed had warriors and daemons in one book and beastmen in another, again you could mix them. 6th ed beastmen could have marks of chaos as well but beastmen seem more inspired by how they used to be back in 5th ed, same as warriors and daemons. Chaos hounds follow the warriors about, they don't have marks, same with trolls, I guess they should all have marks, no thats a thought, obviously slaanesh giants must be really perveted rather than stupid. This is also against the kind of thing Tzeentch would even care about, manipulative giant?? Oh I see, so we just ignore the masses of negative with -1 to hit which can be basically ignored by so many things because you like the idea? even if the ways of negating are far greater than regen? I assume you dislike of the idea is lore of metal which btw isn't effected by -1 to hit either. Your excuse for plague bearers is rather poor, obviously regen is a trait associated with nurgle hence why plaguebearers have it, clearly it isn't a trait he would give to his mortal followers... |
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| Judgex83 | Dec 8 2011, 02:10 AM Post #48 |
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The leech lord
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Im done trying to have any discussion with you kormak because you come off as a total jerk to people who disagree with you. This is a wishlisting thread and I state what I think would be good and if I do disagree I state why I think it would be better a different way. You on the other hand pretty much say "your a retard for not agreeing with me" |
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| Kormak | Dec 8 2011, 02:20 AM Post #49 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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This is what you said to me and then you say I come across as a complete jerk, seriously, get over yourself, you pretty much implied I had a agenda and very clearly over estimate the amount of flaming attacks in the game. Regen is rubbish because you can cancel it with flaming attacks, thats pretty much your reason yet to apply the same logic to what you like isn't being a jerk, obviously. Then you start arguing about hoe beastmen are not chaos and thus them not having marks isn't a reason for giants not to??? You telling me if someone posts something as wrong as that (the beastmen not be chaos) as a counter argument your not going to correct it? Edited by Kormak, Dec 8 2011, 02:24 AM.
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| Judgex83 | Dec 8 2011, 02:23 AM Post #50 |
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The leech lord
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My comment was a snide remark. Im not the only one that says you can be a jerk, hell if i check this very thread I will probably find someone that has said that very thing. Beastmen arnt chaos you need to get past the old books hence why they are called Beastmen and not chaos beastmen. Things change get over it. I didnt say regen was rubbish I said a 5 up was crap and if im going to take a mark that can be negated by a banner I atleast want it to be a 4 up so its good most of the time. It sounds to me that your the one that needs to get over themselves Edited by Judgex83, Dec 8 2011, 02:27 AM.
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| Kormak | Dec 8 2011, 02:27 AM Post #51 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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So snide remarks are fine? |
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| Player not found | Dec 8 2011, 03:29 AM Post #52 |
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The Chosen
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Judgex, I haven't read the Beastmen book, I'll admit it (although I think I will now you have me puzzled), but here's a quick quote from the GW website Beastmen: Getting Started page.
Hell, aren't the Shamans referred to as the speakers of the gods or something? Now regarding Kormak's stance regarding your suggestion, mind if I chime in a moment? I won't comment really on anyone's suggestions, but sincerely, you are the one that sounded innapropriate here. As Kormak pointed out, you imply that he doesn't care what happens with the MoN, whereas truth be told, you sound like you're the one with an agenda. Army-wide 4+ regen would be, I think, impossible to implement faily. For some opponents, we're pretty much talking 3+/4++ St5/6 warriors here. On my end, as long as all 5 options are valid I'll be happy. Currently, two of the choices seem to stand out, MoK and MoT being alot more interesting than any of the other 3 choices (with Undivided coming in next simply because of costs...). A revamp of the way marks works would be could be considered, maybe have the mark actually replace the Will of Chaos rule instead (would make Undiv and Slaanesh alot more attractive). I don't really care, and even if things don't end up being all that advantageous to me, so what? I don't play to win at all costs, I play to have fun... my usual BB team is halflings, after all ;) Edited by Player not found, Dec 8 2011, 03:30 AM.
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| Judgex83 | Dec 8 2011, 03:44 AM Post #53 |
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The leech lord
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If you read my entire post I wasnt for a regen at all but if it was going to be a regen I wanted it to be a good one. Marks arnt cheap now and I dont see them being cheap in the next codex. I dont have an agenda at all I for one want all the marks to be good especially MoN and MoT since I have a good friend who plays tzeentch also go look at nurgle demons they have that regen your saying wouldnt be fair army wide. so go read what I said and then chime in pls.
Edited by Judgex83, Dec 8 2011, 03:51 AM.
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| Kormak | Dec 8 2011, 04:35 AM Post #54 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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Your post was "I think Regen 5+ isn't enough, its rubbish, if you going to have Regen you might as well have Regen 4+" You wanted -1 to hit in closecombat and -1 to hit at range for MoN, problem with -1 to hit is that pretty much every unit in the game will hit them on a 5+, the only think that hits them on a 4+ is WS6+ and nothing can hit them on a 3+. Thats a pretty insane buff in addition to all BS based weapons having a -1 to hit (so most things will hit them on a 6+). Nurgle daemons do not wear chaos armour, while they have a wardsave they do not get to use both, this was changed in 8th as in 7th they could use both and the list was called "nurgle wall of fun" and was considered very broken. Chaos warriors also have vastly superior stats to plague bearers and plague bearers rely on a hero being in the unit in order to benefit from the 4+ regen. Kill the Herald with a character before you unit strikes and the unit loses it 4+ Regen. |
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| Judgex83 | Dec 8 2011, 04:46 AM Post #55 |
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The leech lord
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I also stated that I didnt even want a regen so put my whole statement. Yes -1 to hit would be good but I dont think its any better then having an entire army with ASF or hatred and to a lesser extent cold blooded. Funny how back at my old store when my buddy played last edition ogres and I used mark of nurgle and alot of the times he needed 5s to hit me he never cried and mark of nurgle was a common mark back then. I also used to play darkelves and I needed 5s to wound warriors and ogres and plaguemonks and a ton of other units and I never once thought "hey this isnt fair".I guess some ppl are easier to make cry foul. That 4 up regen plaguebearers get is more often then not going to be better then chaos armor or atleast equal to it if you dont give your warriors shields. I will admit I forgot it was a hearld that gave the unit regen but they are also cheaper.
Edited by Judgex83, Dec 8 2011, 04:56 AM.
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| Kormak | Dec 8 2011, 05:05 AM Post #56 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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I don't think a entire army should have hatred or ASF?? funny thing is I don't like how the MoN is currently so I fail to see what your point is here? but hey if you use elves they all hit MoN guys on a 4+, if you play empire only halberdiers (no one used spearmen) hit MoN on a 4+, dwarfs hit them on a 4+. Giving nurgle -1 to hit means even elven elite units hit chaos warriors on 5+, other chaos warriors hit them on a 5+, bloodletters, dwarfs, pretty much every single unit in the game hit them on a 5+, those poor WS2 guys actually need a 6+ hit! 4+ regen is better than chaos armour unless armed with a shield, think is, they have chaos armour as well as the regen, most people will agree most daemons are underpriced, they did break 7th ed. |
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| Judgex83 | Dec 8 2011, 05:15 AM Post #57 |
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The leech lord
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Explain to me how needing a 5 to hit is any different then needing a 5 to wound? the odds are the same for both. |
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| Kormak | Dec 8 2011, 05:40 AM Post #58 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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Not really sure what point your trying to make here? are you saying its fine to hit on a 5+ because S3 wounds T4 on a 5+ see we are not talking about one bracket but any WS equal or lower hitting on a 5 + |
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| Judgex83 | Dec 8 2011, 05:41 AM Post #59 |
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The leech lord
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What I was saying is some armies need 5s on their dice rolls be it to hit or to wound so should we make everything T3 so elves never need more then a 4 to wound things |
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| Kormak | Dec 8 2011, 05:46 AM Post #60 |
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High Executioner of Khorne
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But your making pretty much every army need a 5+ to hit bar characters and then and S3 army also need a 5+ to wound in addition to this so I fail to see what you point is. Making everything have such massive penalty is very hard to balance, especially if your also going to want all BS based weapons to have additional modifier to hit as well? its just far to much. |
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10:45 PM Jul 11