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New Armybook Wishlisting!; Let's wishlist here
Topic Started: Nov 24 2011, 03:45 PM (1,014 Views)
Judgex83
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The leech lord
Im going to only comment on the BS part of your comment since have to go do some shopping. So your telling me that you honestly feel we shouldnt get some sort of protection against being shot. The army thats only real range is a two hundred and some odd points I cant remember cannon. I dont view that as being unfair I see it as making sense. The same reason you want khorne to have magic resistance. If you cant take it then get a resistance against it.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Obviously I don't hence why I said regen 5+! the current mark was errated so nurgle warriors didn't hit pretty much every troop in the game on a 3+ so you suggest that they just go and swap it around!

I want Khorne models to have MR1, you know, a 6+ wardsave against magic, that is so in the same league considering so many spells simply ignore MR anyways! Its not like its fluffy or anything considering all khorne daemons have MR1+
Edited by Kormak, Dec 8 2011, 06:01 AM.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
I think Kormak has a valid point in that the Regeneration should be 5+ at best. If you look across the game, units that have a 5+ save beyond armor (even if it can be negated by fire) are extremely rare. It's a huge boon.

One thing that I'd like to see is Marks being changed to being an upgrade for the models in the unit, as opposed to paying a flat price for the unit itself - I think that makes Marks easier to balance. I'd totally pay +3 or +4 points/model for Nurgle Warriors that have Fear and 5+ Regeneration, or +1 points/model for Slaanesh Warriors that are Immune to Psychology.
Edited by rothgar13, Dec 8 2011, 06:42 AM.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Thanks Rothgar,

While its sounds more balanced on paper I don't honest know if it would be, I mean its hardly as is Warriors of Chaos are the most powerful army, I think they are a good army, just very dull so take the example of nurgle warriors with regen and fear. Your going to be looking at 21-22pts a model with shield and halberd, I dunno, that seems like a hell of a lot for what they do in army with no shooting (or limited) I dunno, perhaps buying the marks per unit rather than per model is a fair discount to compensate for the lack of shooting. At the that price your looking at over 400pts a unit so a extra 40pts a model, I don't think the issue is with chaos warriors and marks per say, its Marauders with 1pts great weapons and MoK, perhaps Marauders shouldn't even have marks. Price changes like that will also make chaos warriors struggle to remain competitive when compared to units such as bloodletters.
Edited by Kormak, Dec 8 2011, 09:12 AM.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
At last Games Day in Italy, JJ told in an interview that when looking for ideas for new books they actually lurk the forums for whishlisting...........i think it's fun that maybe gw's GD are reading this very thread for the upcoming woc book.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Interesting I had no idea, I just assumed I was rambling to myself lol, I doubt they would pay attention to anything I write anyways, well back to my WoC idea thread :)
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Doesn't surprise me, though it does surprise me that they went out and said it. There are a lot of good, or at least viable, ideas floating around that a game designer can tweak and give shape until they make sense.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
So true, just wish last time round the hadn't removed all the fluffy options :( if they hadn't I am sure I would have loved the current book.
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theorox
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Clanlord
Kormak
Dec 8 2011, 12:37 AM

You are being rather silly if you think Tzeentch is going to be a wardsave again, hell the nerfed MoN because they thought it was to good, you really think they wont change MoT? Its been different every single edition!
I'll keep that in my sig until the book comes out just to taunt you if it indeed turns out to be a wardsave. ;) Otherwise you get bragging rights for the prediction!

Theo
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Well, it wouldn't be worthy of the God of Change if it wasn't changing constantly, now would it? :P
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
theorox
Dec 8 2011, 10:54 PM
Kormak
Dec 8 2011, 12:37 AM

You are being rather silly if you think Tzeentch is going to be a wardsave again, hell the nerfed MoN because they thought it was to good, you really think they wont change MoT? Its been different every single edition!
I'll keep that in my sig until the book comes out just to taunt you if it indeed turns out to be a wardsave. ;) Otherwise you get bragging rights for the prediction!

Theo
I would never take advantage of bragging rights, I'm above such things :P


rothgar13 is certainly right ;)
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
I think all bets are off as to what they'll actually do with the book. Hopefully it sticks close to what is already here, because that's not half bad. I'll be pretty happy if we get some Forsaken (and the attendant plastic kit) at appropriate prices so that I can use as flankers, though. That's really my #1 thing.
Edited by rothgar13, Dec 9 2011, 07:25 AM.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
to be honest I think we are in much greater need of a flying unit for flankers and proper warmachine hunters :(
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Deroga
The Chosen
I did not read past page 1, sorry, but i have had a lot of thoughts on this subject so here is the beginning of them, starting with marks...

*** "Favor of the Gods", this is a bonus to each unit with the given mark as long as the whole army has only this mark and/or undevided. This is to represent the favor of a given god for being devoted to them as an army, while removing the Wild Randomness of the current system (im a big fan of less randomness in general...though some is always fun) and to give encouragement to mono god themes, without gimping the army.***

Mark of Khorne
- Frenzy
*** MR (2), Hatred/KB, and each unit with MoK may make a dispel channel on 5+.***

Mark of Tzeentch
- +1 to cast spells
- +1 to ward save
*** (need idea), and Each unit with the MoTz may make a casting channel (not dispel) on 5+***

Mark of Slaanesh
- Immune to fear, terror, and panic
- +1 movement
*** Always Strikes First ***

Mark of Nurgle-
+1 Toughness
*** 5+ Regen ***

Each mark, imo, should be a points per model and scale based on what unit gets the mark. This would be the balancing factor for the power of some of the marks on particular units.

Also, my mark buffs are just ideas, ultimately the idea i REALLY want to see is additional benifits to having a Mono themed army so that they can compete with the obvious strengths of diversifying the marks in an army.

Chaos Lord
- Always receives respective "Favor of the Gods"
- When joined with a unit that also has the same mark, confers "Favor of the Gods" to the unit.

Exalted Hero
- Always receives respective "Favor of the Gods"

Ascending Marauder Lord
- cheap marauder hero, perhaps able to be BsB

Marauders
- Increase base points to 5 points per model
- increase the cost of great weapons to 2 points per model

Chosen- Always receive the respective "Favor of the Gods"

Chosen Knights - unit size 1-3 (i feel this unit should be an elite and specialized unit, not a deathstar, especially given the potential power.)
- MoK = Mounted on Juggernaugts
- MoS = Mounted on Steeds of Slaanesh
- MoT = Mounted on Disc of Tzeentch
- MoN = Mounted on Palaquins (perhaps may be only units of 1, up to 3 per special choice, that may join an infantry unit with the MoN, replacing the champion? this would because of the lack of utility and power compaired to the other marks mounts)

Forsaken
- Skirmish
Edited by Deroga, Dec 9 2011, 10:32 AM.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Well just a few things really, let me go through them abit at a time.


MoK

Frenzy is certainly the standard thing but I think the DoC book showed us that we don't have to be stuck in the same flawed design till the end of time, I actually like the idea of KB, just seems to fit the idea that Khorne warriors are excellent killers. MR is fine but truth be told its pretty awful in 8th ed, its only really useful against a couple of lore, at most it should be MR1, I don't think it should be higher than bloodletters.

Channelling seems like a odd idea considering Tzeentch can do it as well, I think when doing marks the deisgners should look at the synergy between the marks fist and how they blend. Certainly we want fluffy mono god armies but I think the book needs to designed with both sets of players in mind.

MoT

I don't really see the need for MoT to buff wardsave when MoN is performing exactly the same thing, ok its regen but clearly its the better option as Chaos warriors can have halberds and still be able to use Regen. +1 cast certainly makes sense but really MoT just isn't that well balanced for 8th, it was ok in 7th when we didn't have all these proper wardsaves and I think it kinda recreates the DoC nurgle wall of fine with no real disadvantages.

Not sure why you think they should be able to channel, its not really needed, I think the warshrines provide interesting options to buff marks so that the Marks themselves don't become overpowered.

MoS

ASF on Chaos warriors is a terrible idea while they remain I5, you talking about basically making swords masters of hoeth core and then slipping them some crack. No one is going to take Great weapons (even is WS5 A2 S6 I5 would be amazing), why would they when the chaos warriors get to reroll to hit, rerolls to hit is actually better than frenzy, you have just made slaanesh the premier combat mark (which should be Khorne role).

MoN

Thats just far to much, T5 troops with a regen save and chaos armour! jesus! could you imagine if they rolled +1T on the eye of the gods table through a warshrine! T6!!!!! troops!!!!! Even better, T7 chaos lords!!!

Points per model doesn't work, we all say how we think it would balance out chaos warriors but truth be told they are not unbalanced, what needs to be done is marks removed from marauders. The problem with marks is Marauders with great weapons, not chaos warriors. I personally think the discount makes up for the lack of shooting.

Not sure on the chosen knight idea, I actually though about this unit a while ago in another thread, problem is they will have to be rare and then basically means no one is going to use the monsters, just to much competition. I like the idea in the warhammer book that has you upgrade chaos knights based on a character, he makes nurgle knights ride rot beasts (interesting idea). I think adapting this idea mounting characters on daenomic steeds opens up no unit options, I would personally have all the mounts as some kind of steed rather than discs and palaquins.
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