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| Melee Lord; How to field him, what's his role? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 30 2011, 01:27 AM (1,060 Views) | |
| Hinge | Dec 18 2011, 12:43 AM Post #31 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Well, I took the glaive/pot of st melee lord out for another spin this week. I played a brutal DoC list. The good news was my opponent only had a L2 tzeetch herald (though with lore of metal), so my lack of a L4 would not be too bad. The bad news was there was no real threat on his side that needed the Glaive/Pot combo to deal with. The Lord performed great in the brief time he was on the board. I was not worried about the metal wizard with the Dragonhelm. I pointed him at the Khorne BSB packing the -2 ld banner (in a unit of khorne hounds so I would not steal the metal snipe spell and kill him with magic), rightfully fearing what that would do to my army. Unfortunately the two chariots I sent in with him decided to stop for an oil change and latte, both failing needed rolls of 7. Further, word of agony only inflicted a single wound on the BSB, and then he refused the challenge. The Lord still won by an impressive 6 and popped the hounds, though leaving the BSB. This allowed him to counter charge with a unit of bloodletters and break me with static rez/-2 ld. While I got away, I failed to rally, again due to the -2 ld banner and flew off the table. So after two games (admittedly one where I got bit by some bad luck), I am still on the fence on keeping the Glaive/Pot combo or going for the more dependable Crown of Command. I love the meta of the monster hunter. I have observed that if you can kill a favorite model/unit or something an opponent depends on quickly and violently, you can really put them off their game (what I call kicking the crutch out from under them). Every new army book seems to be introducing a big, nasty gribbly, and I am seeing more army builds with monsters (heck, I took 3 to the Alamo!). On the other hand, I really believe the CoC will be necessary in the later rounds of a tourney when faced with some really good players. More experimentation to follow. Now I need to find some new tires for my chariots to replace the square ones they have. Hinge |
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| Ghular | Dec 20 2011, 10:48 AM Post #32 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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I've been questioning this as well. Killy Lord vs. Stubborn defense lord. It really is a good question as while we all would want a big bad lord of death, it's often times better game wise to go with the stubborn lord so that it's difficult to get the points back for them unless they get pretty lucky or have something very specific to deal with him. Having put my lord on a pally(I love Papa Nurgle!) in a group or warriors with the standard of discipline for cheapness, I'm thinking that my original plan of giving him killy gear isn't as good of an idea as giving him stubborn and then positioning him against hordes or other killy units with a wide frontage so that they have to attack him on one side of the formation(therefore negating quite a few attacks). That being said, perhaps it's better to do that and have something to hit back with than to rely on eventually wearing them down or stalling long enough for flank charges from the rest of the army. The above story makes me believe I should go with stubborn... |
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| iggy666 | Dec 20 2011, 12:53 PM Post #33 |
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Slayer of Neckbeards
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Could somebody make me the most killy lord possible with the MoK, preferably usable in 1500pts. I have been following this thread for the passed couple days and was hoping someone could make the big bad lord of death your referring to. I'm thinking about mounting on a manticore or a chariot. |
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| rothgar13 | Dec 20 2011, 03:01 PM Post #34 |
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Clanlord
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Pardon my language, but screw both the Manticore and the Chariot - those can be shot out from under you, and they definitely can't be used in 1500. A build I like is this one: Chaos Lord, Chaos Runesword, Charmed Shield, Mark of Khorne, Talisman of Preservation, Word of Agony, Barded Chaos Steed Conservative as far as points go (he clocks in at 374 points, so he's usable as early as 1500 points), he has a 1+ armor save and a 4+ Ward save on a slim frontage, guys with WS4 or less only hit him on a 5+, he spits out 7 WS9 S6 attacks every turn, and he will rock some socks in a challenge thanks to the Charmed Shield and the Word of Agony (which can be switched out for Stream of Corruption + Bloodcurdling Roar if you're looking for general shooty utility as opposed to a dedicated challenge-monkey). Edited by rothgar13, Dec 20 2011, 03:03 PM.
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| cross | Dec 20 2011, 03:14 PM Post #35 |
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The Chosen
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i plan on running this guy. chaos lord. MoT. disc. sword of swift slaying. enchanted shield. talisman of preservation. stream of corruption. 1+ armour, 3+ ward. causes fear. disc has a flaming attack. magical weapon against ethereals. 5 strength 5 attacks asf. stream of corruption for crunching in the hits in the first round of combat. comes in cheap at 345. what do you think what do you think |
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| iggy666 | Dec 20 2011, 04:29 PM Post #36 |
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Slayer of Neckbeards
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So no more than a regular mount? He would be put in a unit of knights wouldn't he? Is it that likely that the enemy will blast the manticore or chariot off the board? Say in 2000pts. In 1500 or less that lord with knights would add some nice damage and be able to kill anything in a challenge, I agree. A chariot with MoK as a mount for your lord is only 130pts and will inflict an extra D6+4 str 5 hits (7.5 average) with T5, 4 wounds and a 3+ save. Is that not worth it? A cannon could blast him off his chariot, but a cannon has a pretty good chance of killing him regardless, though he would have look out, sir in the knight unit. I was hoping he would have the manouverability to catch enemies that wouldn't want to fight him, a 6 model wide knight unit would be hard to move horizontally across the board. Plus I still need his leadership bubble and I don't normally put my knights in the center of my line. He should be designed to slay as well as to lead, no? |
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| theorox | Dec 20 2011, 05:17 PM Post #37 |
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Clanlord
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I'd like to make a real shredder lord to use as a hammer, on a Manticore. Something like: Lord MoK Sword of Bloodshed Charmed shield Dawnstone Manticore Diabolic Splendour 570p. :D 8 Str5 attacks, 4 Str5 KB from the Manticore, and Thunderstomp. He should shred...most things, really. Great mobility. 2+ Re-rollable AS and deflects the first hit on a 2+ should keep him safe into combat, hopefully. If he gets in a challange he'll crush anything, and if not he'll chew through a unit pretty fast. Thoughts? What should I look out for with him? :) Theo |
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| itsuperslug | Dec 20 2011, 10:15 PM Post #38 |
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The Chosen
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Chaos Lord Mark of Tzeentch Chaos Steed Sword of Striking Helm of Many Eyes Charmed Shield Word of agony 5A @ S5, hitting WS6 (or lower) on 2's with re rolls for ASF 1+/ 6++ save, ignore 1st hit of 2+ rides with knights, with blasted standard, and BSB Ward save isn't the best but shouldn't be a lot left that can hit him! |
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| rothgar13 | Dec 21 2011, 03:22 AM Post #39 |
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Clanlord
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With the Charmed Shield, you have a very good (2+, in fact) chance to just deflect the cannonball away from you. Your mount (if it can be attacked separately), however, won't be so lucky. The Look Out, Sir! and the ability to pick up static combat resolution (ranks, banner) in the unit of Knights are crucial to making sure he wins combat and keeps on rolling, not to mention that a unit of Knights has a significantly better armor save than a Chariot or a Manticore (though to be fair that doesn't have any armor at all). A unit of 10 Knights (including him) can go front and center, I don't see why not. You probably don't want to run them into a Horde of Great Weapon wielders, but they can take on any other sort of unit, no problem. No reason to run them 6-wide, either - run them slim, put out a ton of attacks on a thin frontage, rout people, rinse and repeat. Edited by rothgar13, Dec 21 2011, 03:23 AM.
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| iggy666 | Dec 21 2011, 05:03 AM Post #40 |
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Slayer of Neckbeards
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If mounted on either a Manticore or Chariot (I'm going to say chariot because thats what I want my Lord to ride) you can reach combat by turn 2. The Chariot will mark 14" and charge about 16" on average. Not every enemy will be bringing a cannon, but the ones that do will probably have more than one. So say, on average, every enemy has 1 cannon in their army. That cannonball still has a large percent chance of failure to hit, when it does hit theres a 33% chance to hit the rider (unless cannonballs always hit the mount, which might be the rule), and it still only does D6 wounds if it wounds. In order to pop the chariot the enemy has a 50% chance of rolling a 4+. The enemy will have 1-2 shooting phases worth of cannons before I can get my Lord into combat. I'm thinking this will be hit or miss, either the enemy has 2-4 cannons and kills my lord before he reaches combat or the enemy has 0-1 cannons and ignores the lord or fails to kill it. Rothgar, your Lord is perfect in my opinion. Mind if I replace the steed with a chariot and call him my general? A Lord on a chariot does not take up much room, he could easily co-charge with a unit of knights of warriors to gain any static CR from the units. At least on paper, I don't see why putting him on a chariot is that much of a risk based on the potential damage you could inflict with it (D6+4 Str 5). I understand the idea of centralizing my army with a massive 10 man Khorne Knight unit with my Lord, but the center of my army is going to be my Warrior/Chosen combo-block with my BSB. |
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| rothgar13 | Dec 21 2011, 06:24 AM Post #41 |
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Clanlord
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The main problem is that Chariots can't march in 8th edition. So that leaves plenty of time for it to get shot to hell. And once your opponent knows how to use the cannon (aka nominating points 8" or 10" from the back of the base of what he wants to hit), he won't miss much. That's the reason I don't like the Chariot - it can't join units (to my knowledge, and even if it could it'd stop them from marching), it can be attacked separately, and once it does your Lord's on foot (lame...). I would stick to either the Juggernaut or the Chaos Steed as a Khorne Lord who wants a mount.
Edited by rothgar13, Dec 21 2011, 06:24 AM.
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| iggy666 | Dec 21 2011, 07:53 AM Post #42 |
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Slayer of Neckbeards
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Forgot about not being able to march. Why are cannons always a problem? Are there really that many armies who take them, I've never seen empire or dwarves without them but I don't know if i've seen many cannons in other armies. I understand a cannon could destroy the chariot with a successful shot, at worst 2 shots. I'm sure after enough games I'll figure out that you were right :P |
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| rothgar13 | Dec 21 2011, 08:02 AM Post #43 |
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Clanlord
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Dwarfs, Empire, and now Ogres can field them, and they're certain doom for a Chariot. Stone Throwers will also do something similar, though they're remarkably less accurate (but available to a ton of armies). |
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| Metal_Lord | Dec 21 2011, 09:40 PM Post #44 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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Don't forget that Skaven have Warp Lightning cannon thingies - they're not always reliable but S7 shots with no armour save will soon see your chariot dead (knights are also a favoured target), same with the Manticore but that has no armour anyway, so no trouble there. I play with a Manticore fairly often in my Dark Elf army and unless you position it very carefully it will get shot to bits - at least in my experience! The Manti dies far to easily against a lot of things, so sticking your Lord on it is not a very good idea unless you really know what you are doing. Same with chariots, chariots by themselves are okay, but I would never ever stick a character one one. Unless I played TK, which I don't! Rothgar Chaos Lord is a good setup. You could give him the MoT if he is with Knights and give the Knights the Banner of Rage, this will give him a 3+ ward save and the frenzy he needs (plus, he'll never lose it), it also vastly increases the killing power of your Knights and their steeds. A unit of 6 led by the Lord deals out an impressive number of attacks (18 from the knights, 14 from the horses, plus 7 from your Lord, assuming you get them there unharmed which is easier said than done). |
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| teafloy_the_damned | Dec 21 2011, 11:18 PM Post #45 |
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The Chosen
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Cross I've been using that lord for a few games now and he's always worked out perfectly. Although i go for the dragonhelm and a potion of strength, just in case he has something tough to hack through. Add that to the sword of swift slaying, he's almost always rerolling to hit with a 1 off St8 Also if you can get off a spell that reduces your enemys toughness then flying next to the flank of a unit and using the stream of corruption works perfectly (took out 14 bloodletters this way) And to top it all off, as Rocky Balboa correctly says: It ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward Edited by teafloy_the_damned, Dec 21 2011, 11:22 PM.
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