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Swordmaster Angst
Topic Started: Dec 9 2011, 05:24 PM (717 Views)
AnomalyOfAwesome
The Chosen
I have faced High Elves 2 times in the past month, and both times I have won. The key to Swordmasters is hitting them when you want to, not the other way around. A horde of marauders will ruin their day, while sword and board warriors are tough enough to hold against them. Also, combo charges are key, as they are with any dicey unit. Don't play into the same routine too many people do with our army. Sure, you can do ok if you just walk forward and hit things until they break, but you are going to take a lot of losses in the process. Even a unit of Maruader Cav into the the side or rear is going to swing that combat.

Also, on another note, please don't throw the word "overpowered" around too much. Swordmasters are hardly overpowered at Toughness 3, 5+ armor and I think only 8 LD (that one I'm not sure of...it's either 8 or 9). Accusations like that lead to things getting nerfed that don't deserve it...like our warriors :-p
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Sir-Crass
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Slave
[ * ]
Trolls... plain and simple
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grimni22
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The Chosen
Sir-Crass
Dec 10 2011, 01:40 PM
Trolls... plain and simple
that only works when they don't have the flaming banner :(

last time I countered them with a unit of 20 marauders (tzeentch, shield) that killed half and kept them busy for the entire battle.
another unit I slaughtered by flank charging with my sorcerer lord and casting the strength-debuff from lore of shadow, then challenging. then my warriors made short work of them.(were in the front)
Edited by grimni22, Dec 10 2011, 05:52 PM.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
50 marauders should win a fight of attrition, I just doubt your marauders will get into the fight you want, HE do have one option and khorne unit lack "flee", so while you can setup the perfect charge on his SM he can simply bait and flee and then counter you with a flank charge from his spearmen.
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wamphyri101
Warrior of the Chamber
As someone who also plays High elves, the best ways to deal with swordmasters, without using magic or buffs, are:

1: 2 chariots. Impact hits are the bane of HE and at str5, the elves wont have a save.

2: 2 Warshrines. At T6/4+ ward, they can be bloody hard for swordmasters to shift (he will get about 13 attcks with champion. 3+ with reroll to hit, but then 5+ to wound. YOu get 6+ armour, 4+ ward)
You then get 10 back, hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+ with 6+ save.
He will only ever have 2+ ranks at best and a banner. You should kill at least 4. Idea is to hold then will you can flank with something killy.

3: Stream of corruption: Use it as a flame template. Swordmaster usually go 6/7 wide and 2/3 ranks dead. A well placed hit will get the whole unit, wounding on a 4+ and then he only gets a 6+ save. Can devistate his units with this to a more managable size.
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Kiwichris
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The Khornate Kiwi
Thanks for the advice guys. All the Marauders in my army are painted undivided, and so is my chariot. I think I'll use my Chariot, as a sacrificial lamb of sorts. I'll get impact hits before his ASF. With 4 Toughness 5 wounds, I should last long enough for the crew to attack back, hopefully killing enough to remove them as a threat even if I get massacred the next turn.
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deathphoenix
Warrior of the Chamber
wamphyri101
Dec 10 2011, 07:03 PM
As someone who also plays High elves, the best ways to deal with swordmasters, without using magic or buffs, are:

1: 2 chariots. Impact hits are the bane of HE and at str5, the elves wont have a save.

2: 2 Warshrines. At T6/4+ ward, they can be bloody hard for swordmasters to shift (he will get about 13 attcks with champion. 3+ with reroll to hit, but then 5+ to wound. YOu get 6+ armour, 4+ ward)
You then get 10 back, hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+ with 6+ save.
He will only ever have 2+ ranks at best and a banner. You should kill at least 4. Idea is to hold then will you can flank with something killy.

3: Stream of corruption: Use it as a flame template. Swordmaster usually go 6/7 wide and 2/3 ranks dead. A well placed hit will get the whole unit, wounding on a 4+ and then he only gets a 6+ save. Can devistate his units with this to a more managable size.
+1

If you are going to take a chariot, take two. You won't get your money back on one charging into a unit of 10-14 SM. Or use one as the hammer combined with an anvil unit, or a combined charge with 5 knights.

Elves hate templates in 8th. stream of corruption will wound half of what it touches, on average, leaving the unit with a 6+ save. A hell cannon just terrifies the hell out of HE units.

Watch for eagles. They are excellent for blocking/redirecting big units of warriors and marauders, especially Khorne units, setting the HE player up for a flank charge.

I've never played against a war shrine, but agree that two is just plain nasty.

I did think that you were unlucky with your warriors and Ogres losing. You charged in the front and rear, lost 10 wounds, did 5 wounds back. So a difference of 10 - 5 = 5, + 1 for charging, +2 for rear attacks and + 1 for your rank bonus if your warriors were 5x3 and his SM were 5x2? equals -1 to your Ld test. You failed your morale and lost both units. I don't see where the substantial loss came from, or did I miss something? Banners? Characters?

Edited by deathphoenix, Dec 14 2011, 04:09 PM.
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PrinceofPleasure
The Chosen
I'm suprised that no one has mentioned Choas Trolls.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Flaming is easy to acquire on Swordmasters. I don't think Trolls are much of an option - 12 or so Swordmasters will obliterate Trolls.
Edited by rothgar13, Dec 20 2011, 10:51 AM.
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popisdead
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Warrior of the Chamber
Kiwichris
Dec 9 2011, 05:24 PM
I don't have any shooting or magic in my army as it's themed mostly around Khorne.
First off, your 15 point models have better toughness, Str and armour save.

I suggest you buy a Helcannon or two. If you are set on playing a themed army not sure what to tell you.
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beniah
Slave
[ * ]
I actually just smashed some swordmasters the other day using a unit of knights. Just 6 knights (MoT) crushed them. I think the Swordmasters did 1 wound, but then I just slaughtered them. They did fail their fear test, which helped...but even without that, having a 3+ armor save against them and a 6+ ward makes knights a good choice.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Knights are a fantastic counter for Swordmasters - you cut through them like butter, and they just clang off that 1+ armor save.
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mad lamb2
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The Chosen
Has anybody mentioned stream of corruption?

Solo exalted on horse, say 1+ AS ad 4+ WS with breathweapon. He parks his horse in flank and "gently" places breathweapon template over swordmasters unit. I can see about 50% dead SWmasters.
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