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against skaven
Topic Started: Dec 10 2011, 07:44 PM (477 Views)
grimni22
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The Chosen
How would you deal with skaven? I hear theyre one of the top tier armies, so what are good ways of dealing with them?

grimni
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Eldritch
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Warrior of the Chamber
Sorcerer Lord with Heavens lore casting Comet each turn in the middle of their horde can be nasty, and units of Cavalry.
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grimni22
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The Chosen
Eldritch
Dec 11 2011, 05:14 PM
Sorcerer Lord with Heavens lore casting Comet each turn in the middle of their horde can be nasty, and units of Cavalry.
why the cavalry? wouldnt they lose the combat due to their superior ranks?
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DrippingD
Slave
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well max rank bonus is +3 and im pretty sure knights can kill enough to win combat, and 1+ saves help to. You won't break them in one turn but you'll keep winning combat
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Knights might break them if you use lore of death (doom and darkness) or lore of Tzeentch (pandemonium), maybe combined with a doom totem or something, you wanna beat them, top two combined with a hellcannon on the grey seers unit.
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Bloodhack
Warrior of the Chamber
IMO Knights are not the way to go. If he gets the first turn the Skaven have to many ranged units that take away AS and can wipe a unit of knights out in one turn. Ranked infantry with Hellcanon is my suggestion possibley with the Banner with the minus 1 leadership.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Knight can have a 4+ wardsave but are also immune to the dreaded 13th, ranked infantry just get raped in the magic phase, if your using marauders then most you will get is 6 in combat, good luck breaking them slaves with leadership 10 steadfast and shooting in combat.

Problem with skaven is they have a counter to everything, only other option is mass dragon ogres who atleast immune to most of the shooting and plenty of the magic.
Edited by Kormak, Dec 11 2011, 10:08 PM.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
I'd like to echo the thoughts regarding Knights - Skaven don't really have something apart from the Warp Lightning Cannon and the A-bomb to deal with a 1+ armor save, so you can equip some Knights with the Blasted Standard and MoT and just throw them into any infantry block that Skaven have to offer, and they'll demolish them.

As for the A-bomb... Chaos Warriors with Mark of Khorne, Halberds, and the Flaming Banner will deal with him nicely, thanks to their huge attack output and superior Initiative. You're going to have to pack some extra numbers into all your infantry units, though, just in case you get slammed by a Dreaded 13th.
Edited by rothgar13, Dec 12 2011, 03:44 AM.
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Bloodhack
Warrior of the Chamber
I guess I need more on your tactics and build for the knight unit. To me, either you charge your knights into a huge unit of skaven on your turn 2 which gives your opponent 1 or possibly 2 turns to throw everything it has at them, which depending on the list, the knights will be the biggest threat to them.

Now you have a diminished unit of knights slamming into a unit that is going to be steadfast. The rest of your foot troops are a turn away from giving any kind of support for the knights. This seems like a risky move to me. Even if you wait to charge till your foot can cover your flanks by then im sure even with a 1+ AS and 4+ ward that unit is going to be combat ineffective. Trust me I love knights but not against an army that is heavy shooting. A 4+ ward sounds good and looks good on paper but more often than not its not that great.

I would take characters on disks of Tzeencht as war machine killers equipped with things like BCR and SC and ranked warriors backed up with cheap marauders. He will be forced to allocate shooting and magic to try to take out 3+ ward save disc riders allowing your foot to advance unscathed. This has worked for me against Skaven on numerous occasions. Just my 2 cents.....
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
You could avoid knights, have all infantry but then all that infantry is going to get wasted by the dreaded 13th before it even reaches combat, the skaven player has no reason to move towards you with anything other slaves.

You can break skaven units with either lore of death (doom and darkness) or Tzeentch Pandemonium, the later is more effective as you are removing any units ability to use the generals leadership. This is also extremely effective when using a hellcannon and a doom totem. You target the grey seers unit so once it breaks it isn't going to rally.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
also, disc riders will be moving just 1", due to storm banner.
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michaelsgellar
Slave
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Four of the players in my gaming group (their are 10 of us) run Skaven. They are a horde army so you are never going to win on model count.

Here are some of the tactics, I've used to beat Skaven:

Deployment is key since you need to make sure your units are as well positioned as possible to beat their units.

If their are buildings on the table and you can get your units into them, do it! With the way combat works, they'll only be able to send 10 units at a time into the building and WOC will crush the Skaven every time in combat. They will spent all game trying to dislodge you.

Protect your flanks.

I like to take a hellcannon. Some well placed shots can thin hordes of Skaven.

Keeping marching forward. You can't out shoot the Skaven, so the sooner you engage in combat the harder it will be to shoot you.

I don't think there are any tricks to beating Skaven, it's classic horde vs elite army.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Kormak
Dec 12 2011, 08:28 AM
You could avoid knights, have all infantry but then all that infantry is going to get wasted by the dreaded 13th before it even reaches combat, the skaven player has no reason to move towards you with anything other slaves.

You can break skaven units with either lore of death (doom and darkness) or Tzeentch Pandemonium, the later is more effective as you are removing any units ability to use the generals leadership. This is also extremely effective when using a hellcannon and a doom totem. You target the grey seers unit so once it breaks it isn't going to rally.

Bear in mind, though, that a Skaven unit with the Screaming Bell is Unbreakable, so you might have to get in there and chop that thing down first.
Edited by rothgar13, Dec 13 2011, 07:12 AM.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
screaming bells are a waste of points as they allow you to target the sorcerer separately from the unit at range and make it very hard for you to miss him with template weapons, it isn't hard to kill, in comps it screws him over as comps would allow him a LoS roll. Fact is you can just spam gateway on his arse.

Even if the unit is unbreakable you can just charge your knights and DO in and aims crap loads of attacks at the grey seer and take him out very easily.
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grimni22
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The Chosen
how does spell-choosing work with the dreaded 13th? it's not in the tables, so does every wizard know it or sth?

and do I have to fear it at low points (1000)?
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