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A Returning WoC Player's New Army 2500
Topic Started: Dec 31 2011, 11:17 PM (1,395 Views)
Furgil
Member Avatar
Warrior of the Chamber
I played WoC back in 2000-2004, but haven't touched a model since then. I recently decided to get back into it and will be taking this list to Indy Grand Tournaments. My goal is to cover all my bases for the various enemy unit types that I've seen trip up myself and other players over the years.

1x Chaos Lord
- General; Mark of Tz; Disk
- 1+ Armor (Chaos Armor; Dragon Helm; Shield; Mounted)
- 3+ Ward (Talisman of Preservation; Mark of Tz)
- 2+ Ward VS Flaming
- Biting Blade
- Crown of Command
- Stream of Bile; Bloodcurdling Roar

1x Exalted Hero
- BSB; Mark of Tz; Chaos Steed
- 1+ Armor (Chaos Armor; Shield; Mounted; Barded)
- 6+ Ward
- 4+ Ward VS Shooting when joined to Knights
- Book of Secrets (I'm thinking I'll use Fireball, but opinions are welcome)
- Dispel Scroll
- Third Eye of Tzeentch

1x Sorcerer
- Level 2; Mark of Tz; Chaos Steed
- 1+ Armor (Chaos Armor, Charmed Shield; Mounted; Barded)
- 6+ Ward & One Use 2+ Ward on first hit
- 2+ Ward VS Flaming (Dragonbane Gem)
- 4+ Ward VS Shooting when joined to Knights
- Warriorbane Sword
- Infernal Puppet
- Conjoined Humonculous (sp?)

10x Choas Knights
- Full Command; Mark of Tz
- Blasted Standard

18x Chaos Warriors
- Standard; Musician; Mark of Kh
- Halberds; Shields
- Banner of Eternal Flame

60x Marauders
- Standard; Musician; Mark of Kh
- Great Weapons

60x Marauders
- Standard; Musician; Mark of Kh
- Great Weapons

5x Warhounds
5x Warhounds
5x Warhounds

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I've got:

* Decent Leadership of 9
* Stubborn Flying Roadblock disk Lord
* Strong defense against shooting for the expensive units
* Medium Magic offense (Third Eye gives me equally good spells as opponent)
* Medium Magic defense (Scroll & Puppet make my Miscasts tolerable and theirs less so)
* Flaming Attacks at Strength 5 (for Trees, Mummies, Hydras, & Aboms)
* Magical Attacks at Strength 5 (for Ethereals)
* Heavy Cavalry in medium numbers for Hammer attacks that can survive
* Heavy Infantry with tons of attacks
* Hordes of GW-Light Infantry
* Lots of Immune to Psych on more vulnerable units
* Roar attack to wound Pendant Dreadlord
* Breath Weapon to splatter hordes of Light Infantry or boost combat
* Cheap drops to draw out enemy deployments (Warhounds)
* Fast Warmachine hunters (Warhounds & Disk Lord)

... I think that covers all the bases

I've had 2 practice games with a proxied army so far and these were against other strong GT players with solid armies.

*****

The first was against Lizardmen using a Slann + 28x Templeguard; Oldblood (Stubborn) + 39x Saurus; 36x Skinks + 3x Krox; 3x Salamanders; 6x Chameleons; 3x Terradons.

My BSB used his Lore of Metal to cast the same spells he was using (Enchanted Blades & Lead) to enhance/weaken combats; it worked quite well. My Khorne Warriors chewed through all the Saurus (except Oldblood) before being destroyed & the Oldblood was finished off by Marauders. The Skrox unit was drawn out into exposing its flank by the Disk Lord (who took some damage from Enchanted Blades Kroxigors), but held so that Knights could smash into the unit and it took only a couple combats to kill all the Skinks & Krox off. The Templeguard recieved a Final Transmutation killing about 40% just before Knights frontal charged them and destroyed the unit in 3 rounds of combat. The Warhounds engaged Sallies & Chameleons most of th ebattle keepign them from harrassing my real troops. Marauders couldn't get into combat except to "mop up" in the end. I ended up losing only the Khorne Warriors, a few Warhounds, & the BSB; on his side he lost everything but the Terradons & Chameleons. Serious Massacre for me.

*****

My second battle was against Ogres using Slaughtermaster (Stubborn) + Bruiser (BSB) + Bruiser + Firebelly + Gut-Bus (+1 LD); 6x Leadbelchers; 2x Ironblasters; 10x Gnoblar Trappers; 10x Gnoblar diverters; 10x Gnolar diverters; 2x Mournfangs; 2x Mournfangs.

My Warhounds encouraged an early charge and overrun by one of th eMounrfang pairs that exposed them to a charge by Chaos Warriors who destroyed them before they could attack back. The Disk Lord charged an Ironblaster early and failed to break it then was flanked by the other pair of Mournfangs who got 2 lucky wounds through my saves and I held on Stubborn. For the Mournfangs to charge that Disk Lord, he had to charge with his Leadbelchers straight into my Knights who took them apart and pursued into the flank of the Mournfangs fighting the Disk Lord. In the following turn the Ogres lost their Ironblaster & Mournfangs. Marauders boldly charged the Gut buss, but there was a solid wall of characters that were hard to kill in the front rank, I only killed the second Bruiser who had minimal protection befor egetting curb-stomped and run down. My Knights and Disk Lord engaged the Gut-bus for the entire second half of the battle with Gut magic beign cast on both our units to enhance them, eventually he killed all my Knights, leaving just the BSB & Disk Lord fighting, then the other Marauders charged in to finish off the Guts leaving just his characters alive and securing a 300-500 point victory for me.
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GeneralofChaos42
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The Puppet Master
Love your set up of your General, he is great at holding any nasty unit up. Also like how you fit in both the Puppet + scroll. Army looks very good, just not a fan of so many Marauders. [personal taste] Best of luck with the army.



GoC
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Furgil
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Warrior of the Chamber
Thanks for the response.

Scroll/Puppet is manditory, as far as I'm aware, in competative environments.

I've recently finalized my Theme for the army. It'll be "Crusaders of Morr", so Death related imagery using a mix of Chaos, Empire, & Undead models.

Chaos Lord on Disk = "Death - Angel of Morr"
Sorcerer on Steed = Warrior Priest of Morr (switching lore to Death magic)
BSB on Steed = Grand Master (using Death magic)
Chaos Knights = Crusader Knights (using mixture of White Wolf & Bretonnian models)
Chaos Warriors = "Hellfire Knights" (using Chaos Warrior models with flame effects all around them)
Warhounds = Hell hounds (using VC Dire Wolf models)
Marauders of Khorne = "Zealots" (Flagellant models with some axe heads instead of flails to get WYSIWYG)

Dropping the mark of Tzeentch on the Sorcerer and dropping Conjoined Humonculous allows me to take an additional unit of Warhounds for "Winning" Deployment and hunting light units. I pretty much never used the humonculous in the previous 2 games, so I doubt I'll miss it.
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GeneralofChaos42
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The Puppet Master
With the Book of Secrets go with Shadow & Masima, too good not to use.



GoC
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conjoy
Exalted Guardian
Hi Furgil,

Welcome back to WoC, may you find as much success here as you did with your Dwarfs.

The two fundamental flaws I see with your army are:
1. Ldr 9 is great, but useless if you general is off gallivanting onto the other side of the board. Which is exactly the point of how you have him kited out. Any panic test on your hounds and they are unlikely to be seen again. Check out my discussion with Hinge in the Battle report forum following his game against Brets. Theres was a solid discussion late last year regarding the role of a melee Lord in an army, also. If you want to take a melee Lord using him as an unkillable speedbump doesn’t make sense, especially with the low Ldr so much of the army has. He’s better-off providing his Ldr as needed in early turns in your battle line and then ‘breaking the box’ to use your words and helping to turn a crucial combat in your favour.

2. You have no way to win the chaff war. Your Dwarfs had Warmachines, especially the OGun to clear small units that threatened you. Plus, because of the very nature of the threat posed by your Warmachines, opponents were forced to come to you. This meant you didn’t need to worry about laying traps or baiting very much. Your guns softened and then your hard-hitters moped-up. Even with a heavy magic and double Helcannon list you can’t guarantee you will be able to make your opponent come to you on your terms. Taking nothing away from your own skill, but I believe good MSU players will turn you over too easily. Check out the list Seredain plays on the Ullathun forums, his Prince and Silver Helm bus would salivate over your army. This issue could be resolved by including a chariot (or Warshrine) or two or another small unit of Knights or some Trolls (assuming you fixed point 1) to win the chaff war.
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athi
Warrior of the Chamber

don't wanne be a downer ,love you list looks verry awesome - but i think a lot of paint work

the remark i had isn't Third Eye of Tzeentch sorcerer only ???

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Furgil
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Warrior of the Chamber
3rd Eye is Sorcerer Only, but the BSB also carries the Book of Secrets... thus he is a Sorcerer (this is also why he has a Dispel Scroll).

The list is rather large, but in about 1 week I managed to paint 80 of the 120 Marauders completely and the remaining 40 have the first couple colors on them now. I should have all the Marauders done this weekend and then I'll just have 18 Warriors + 12 Cavalry + General + some puppies. If I don't finish all that before 1/27 then I may take the army incomplete, but I'm moving pretty fast, so it might be done just barely in time for the tournament.
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Tekik
Dragon Ogre
power to you... I have no idea how you do it. I paint fairly fast but I would get depressed with that much to paint...
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Andrew_uk
Warrior of the Chamber
I'm no expert on Chaos yet but I know high elves pretty well. A unit opposite me of 60 is just asking for a big spell on them. The marauders will work equally well in units of 40 or so and if you turn your L2 into a L1 (you're not really going to need the extra spell anyway with 3 casters using up all your dice), that will give you enough points to split the two 60s into three 40s.

I would have thought given that 'sorcerer' is a specific hero entry in the book that when it says sorcerer only it means it. Otherwise it would be more general and say 'magic caster' but like I say, no expert yet and I'm sure this is probably covered in some FAQ somewhere.
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David L
The Chosen
Andrew_uk
Jan 19 2012, 05:12 PM
A unit opposite me of 60 is just asking for a big spell on them. The marauders will work equally well in units of 40 or so
I strongly disagree here. Against another horde, units of 40 Marauders disappear amazingly fast. The units of 60 are much harder for an enemy to kill, because they will get MANY swings back no matter how hard they get hit in combat.
Similarly, an enemy that is casting big spells at the Marauders is not casting big spells at the Lord, nor Warriors, nor Knights, and that is a win for Furgil. Finally, after Dwellers, 30 Marauders (from 60) are a much more effective unit than 20 Marauders (from 40). 5x4 Marauders will often lose Steadfast and break in a single round. 5x6 Marauders will keep steadfast for at least one round against far more enemy units.

Andrew_uk
Jan 19 2012, 05:12 PM
I would have thought given that 'sorcerer' is a specific hero entry in the book that when it says sorcerer only it means it.
WoC book, page 106. Basically anything that can cast is a sorceror.
Edited by David L, Jan 19 2012, 11:54 PM.
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Furgil
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Warrior of the Chamber
Andrew_uk
Jan 19 2012, 05:12 PM
I'm no expert on Chaos yet but I know high elves pretty well. A unit opposite me of 60 is just asking for a big spell on them. The marauders will work equally well in units of 40 or so and if you turn your L2 into a L1 (you're not really going to need the extra spell anyway with 3 casters using up all your dice), that will give you enough points to split the two 60s into three 40s.

I would have thought given that 'sorcerer' is a specific hero entry in the book that when it says sorcerer only it means it. Otherwise it would be more general and say 'magic caster' but like I say, no expert yet and I'm sure this is probably covered in some FAQ somewhere.
*** I appreciate the feedback, but I'll have to disagree on these points raised. ***

You might have been confused a bit, but I don't have a Level 4 Sorcerer in my army, just a Level 2 & Level 1. The Disc Lord is a Chaos Lord, not a Sorcerer Lord. Dropping the Level 2 to a Level 1 would be a bit silly.

As David L stated 60 Marauders will live significantly longer than 40, big spell or not, they don't last long to any attack, but they shouldn't last very long at 5 points each. What 60 do that is so handy is allow for a maximum number of return attacks after taking a beating. Few armies will be able to match the sheer number of attacks this unit can produce while in a horde formation (especially for a 5 point model).

As for your comparison to High Elves, in combat a 60-man Horde of Marauders (in 10x6) facing a 10-man unit of Swordmasters (in 5x2) will kill the entire unit of Swordmasters while taking 11 wounds in return, well worth the loss in lives.

Any other unit of High Elves will suffer a similar fate no matter how large they are compared to the Marauders. Even equal points of Swordmasters (20-ish) will be destroyed in essentially one turn (maybe 3-5 remaining on average). Meanwhile the 60 Marauders will still have about 30 or more men left alive.

As for big spells like Dwellers, they are a problem for everyone, but I like the idea of gettign my Horde into combat with max attacks still intact havign 30 models rather than 20. The downside to the enemy havign Dwellers is that I have Third Eye, meaning the Dwellers is likely mine to cast as well and most Wizards (including high Elves) will be strength 3 meaning they will die quite easily.
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Furgil
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Warrior of the Chamber
I updated the list a little bit and submitted it to the tournament this way. I think it'll cover all my bases relatively well. I went for a theme of "Crusaders of Morr", not sure if it even remotely fits into fluff, but it looks nifty on the battlefield.

1x Chaos Lord "Angel of Death" (The Old Death model I found off Cool mini or not)
- General; Mark of Tzeentch; Disk
- 1+ Armor (Chaos Armor; Dragon Helm; Shield; Mounted)
- 3+ Ward (Talisman of Preservation; Mark of Tz)
- 2+ Ward VS Flaming
- Biting Blade
- Crown of Command
- Stream of Bile; Bloodcurdling Roar

1x Exalted Hero "Grand Master" (Carries Empire BSB Angel of Death Icon)
- BSB; Mark of Tzeentch; Barded Chaos Steed
- 1+ Armor (Chaos Armor; Shield; Mounted; Barded)
- 6+ Ward
- 4+ Ward VS Shooting when joined to Knights
- Book of Secrets (Death)
- Dispel Scroll
- Third Eye of Tzeentch

1x Sorcerer "Warrior Priest" (Bretonnian lord with weapon swap)
- Level 2; Mark of Tzeentch; Barded Chaos Steed
- 1+ Armor (Chaos Armor, Charmed Shield; Mounted; Barded)
- 6+ Ward & One Use 2+ Ward on first hit
- 2+ Ward VS Flaming (Dragonbane Gem)
- 4+ Ward VS Shooting when joined to Knights
- Warriorbane Sword
- Infernal Puppet
- Soporific Musk

10x Chaos Knights "Crusader Knights" (Using Bretonnian & White Wolf bits)
- Full Command; Mark of Tzeentch
- Blasted Standard

18x Chaos Warriors "Hellfire Knights" (using Chaos Warriors with unhelmeted heads & Men-at-Arms shields)
- Standard; Musician; Mark of Khorne
- Halberds; Shields
- Banner of Eternal Flame

60x Marauders "Zealots" (Flagellant models with a few conversions)
- Standard; Musician; Mark of Khorne
- Great Weapons

60x Marauders "Zealots"
- Standard; Musician; Mark of Khorne
- Great Weapons

5x Warhounds "Hellhounds" (Using Undead Direwolf models for now until I find soemthign better)
5x Warhounds "Hellhounds"
5x Warhounds "Hellhounds"


I'll take pictures when the army is fully painted in another week or so.
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Furgil
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Warrior of the Chamber
I finished my 120 Marauders yesterday and the General. Less than 2 weeks.

Now I have a little under 1 week to finish the remaining 45 models. It's going relatively smoothly, but so much painting means no time to playtest the army... learning how to use it properly while in the middle of a GT might be a bad idea, but unpainted models lose way more Overall points than a Loss in Battle.
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Deroga
The Chosen
A lot will depend on your deployment and maneuvering, but i will assume that the knights will likely deploy on a flank, since they are much faster than the infantry and are better off in the flank of an enemy than in the front. From experience it is hard to maintain the MUCH needed BSB and/or Generals ld with the wild Khorne marauders. On the one hand you gain the Much needed protection for the bsb, who has spent all his points on non protective items, but on the other hand he and his unit will be forced to stay Very close to two Enormous units so that they are not running all over the place from baiting (if a unit or two of dogs get shot down), or lose a combat and testing on steadfast 7 (khorne marauders with great weapons are awesome, but lose combat pretty regulariliy.)

I completely concede that i may not be able to see your deployment strategy, and that could remove a lot of my concerns outright, but not having a bsb or general "baby sitting" the marauders has proven to be a big liability for me in the past.

Also, this means i wont have my chance to get my GT record vs your dwarves to 1-1-1? Damn you! :P
Edited by Deroga, Jan 25 2012, 12:51 AM.
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Hinge
Exalted Guardian
That sound of "Aw S&!t" was from the Texans as they found out Hinge will be flying in for Lonewolf!

Furgil and Deroga, see you in a couple of weeks.

Hinge

PS yep, last minute impulse decision. You have to love having a bunch of frequent flyer miles and an understanding wife.
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