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Tzeenth Mortals 2K; Changing tacts from Khorne to Tzeentch
Topic Started: Nov 25 2004, 02:41 AM (440 Views)
Khornesone
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Warrior of the Chamber
Well, I've had great success with Khorne armies in both mortals and beasts now. So I want to try swapping strateges from denying magic to controlling it. However, this also means my units lack the old punch of an extra attack per model and might panic and run away long before the charge.

First draft.

Exalted Champion on Steed, Mark of Tzeentch, Power Stone, Enchanted Shield.

Aspiring Champion w/Great Weapon, Mark of Tzeentch, BSB

5 Chosen Knights with mark of Tzeentch and Full command.

4 Knights with mark of Tzeentch and Full command.

11 Chosen Warriors w/Shields, Mark of Tzeentch and Full command.

18 Maruders w/ flails and Full command.

5 Chaos Warhounds

3 Screamers

5 Furies

Hellcannon

The BSB will be with the warriors and the General with the normal knights. My goal is to cast every spell in the first round with three dice and force any dispel scrolls to be burned up. The fliers should take care of war machines. The Hellcannon will be positioned on the far flank so it will still rampage towards the enemy and not to me. Hopefully I can get the Knights on a flank just as the warriors ready their charge, and use magic to stall the enemy's advance.

Thoughts?

Khornesone
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snyggejygge
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High Zar of Khorne

When Iīve got more time I will look into this list more carefully, but for starters you canīt have a battlestandard wielding a greatweapon...

& I do belive multiple units of chosen isnīt worth it in 2000 pts games...
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Lightbringer
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Evil Wizards Inc.
I agree, skip the furies, the screamers can do their job (you can always add one for from the points you get when removing the furies).

Its not very fighty imho, but I never use knight armies so I don't know how to form one of those so it will probably work anyway :D

It's not the suber mega magic army, but its sorcery-capability seems strong enough. Just don't missfire the hellcannon so your heroes takes a wound each :P. But, you can't cast all spells with 3 dice in the first turn. First of you can onlu get 11 dice in the first turn unless I am missing something. Secondly, you may very well find your BSB to be out of range with at least one spell since he is not in a fast moving unit.
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Khornesone
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Warrior of the Chamber
It's mostly Empire and Dwarves around here, and one unit of fliers tends to get orgun gunned or hellblasted away, thus two units.

Good catch on the BSB. I'm thinking of putting both heroes on steeds for that whole range problem (but the power stone will put me up to 12 power dice for one turn.)

Khornesone
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snyggejygge
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High Zar of Khorne

Nope only 11,
2 for each character = 4
1 For each knightunit = 2
1 For the warriors = 1
2 basedice = 2
2 for powerstone = 2
Total = 11

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decker_cky
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Biased Towards Beasts
I agree with the sentiment of 1 unit of flyers. Even if the screamers get blasted out of the air, you have a decent magic defense and that means they aren't shooting your knights as much.

I'd give the exalted champ a weapon of some kind for sure, whether its just a great weapon or a magic sword. I don't know if the BSB will really be worth it that much, maybe make him anothor ex. champ and drop the standard.

Hellcannon is both a risk and a little expensive to fit in. If you misfire and roll 6, both your characters take a wound. Also, I think you'd be better served with more units than the firing (then you could actually afford both the screamers and the furies). I'd def drop the hellcannon for more foot troops (or cavalry).

I'd drop the chosen warriors to normal and beef up the unit a bit.

edit: abit funny that the khorne player gone tzeentch is getting advice on his list from a tzeentch player gone khorne eh? (and vice versa)
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Khornesone
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Warrior of the Chamber
Crap, forgot the second unit of 12 warriors.
Ah well, I've modified the list slightly. taking both units of knights to 4 and putting both heroes on steeds, adding a dispel scroll, took out the unit of chaos warriors and added 10 Horrors and 3 Flamers. just to give them a try and maybe force an early dispel dice out of my opponent.

Low risk game today (just fighting for a challenge token) perfect for trying something new, but I'll write up a battle report with how it goes. And maybe modify this list again.

Khornesone
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Khornesone
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Warrior of the Chamber
Okay, that sucked. No battle report because it just isn't that interesting. My average dice roll was about 1.5, my opponent was about 4.5. A few examples, my first spell miscast with 1,1,2 (then rolled a 10 and took a wound). My Chosen got hit by a volley gun (1 of 2!) and he rolled three 10s in a row. Luckily I wasn't at half range. Still took 9 wounds, only saving four. Wiped out unit. Storm of Chronos: rolled a whopping five on three dice and the spell proceeded to kill a screamer, four furies, two knights and four chaos hounds. Finally got a charge with my hero who promptly missed with everything, proving unable to even beat a war machine crew.

Not to mention that the Empire player made his list AFTER looking at my entire army, and even changed the terrain around to have a forest on top of a hill for his warmachine (The volley gun can see over troops, but can't be charged by fliers, and sit amid difficult terrain to boot! I, meanwhile, thought it was just a hill and all open terrain, silly me.)

The Hellcannon did it's job, killing 2-3 knights a turn but causing no panic, and with nothing else going for me I called it before I even got my turn 3. I was there. My dice weren't. I am thinking I'm just not meant to play Tzeentch.

Still, I did learn a few things. 9 power dice is just too many for a couple level two sorcerers, and the power stone was overkill. More dispel scrolls would have been handy, and I'm thinking Tzeentch was meant for Heroquest tactics.

Horrors and Flamers seem nice, but the bound spells are weak and not even worth dispelling. I had this neat idea of luring in some knights with a charge on the flamers, then fleeing. After I said, "Your turn." It occured to me daemons can't flee. T4 and 2W can hold up to a charge, but they don't get a lot back and instability does the rest.

Four knights plus hero has no tolerance for bad luck, and the board just isn't big enough to use them as they should ... especially when keeping your distance from your own Hellcannon.

So I'm thinking drop the Hellcannon, horrors, flamers and one or two of the heroes, take the lord with Staff of Change and 8 knights, throw in a sorcerer or two as a scroll caddies, put the screamers to five and the furies to 9. Add a chariot if I have the points left for it. Chaos Hounds to 9. Probably take the warriors to 18 normal versus 12 chosen like Decker suggested. I've tried something similar to this before with mixed success... which is more than I had today.

What works best for non-frenzied warriors? Hand weapons? Halberds? Great Weapons?

Any tips for controlling the magic phase? I'm used to just shutting it down.

Matt/Khorneson




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snyggejygge
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High Zar of Khorne

For starters I wouldnīt play a guy whom remakes his armylist after heīs seen your army & then rearranges the terrain...

If you want to control the magicphase youīll need more than 2 sorcerers...
But donīt rely to much on the magic, sometimes it wont work...

Hereīs a list a friend of mine whom plays Tzeentch usually uses, I donīt mean for you to copy it, but maybe find some uses & inspiration...

General: Exalted of Tzeentch, w. Gaze of the gods, spellfamiliar, steed, shield & a great weapon. 237 pts

Hero: Exalted of Tzeentch, w. greatweapon, steed, Armour of damnation, & shield. 222

Hero: Brayshaman, lvl 2 upgrade, dispelscroll & Staff of Darkoth. 160

Core:
5 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch: Chosen, Full command. 295

5 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch: Full Command, warbanner. 260

5 Marauderhorsemen: Musician, flails & throwing axes. 101

5 Marauderhorsemen: Musician, flails & throwing axes. 101

8 Chaos Hounds. 48

6 Chaoshounds. 36

1 Chaos Chariot of Tzeentch: Mark of Tzeentch. 140

Special:

Beastherd: 16 Gors, 8 Ungors, full command. 179

4 Screamers. 132

6 Furies. 90

Total: 2001
# of Powerdice:11
# of Dispeldice:5

I know the list has many flaws, but I think heīs got the right idea about playing Tzeentch, using movement to choose his fights, getting support from the fast troops in the flanks & charging in head on w. the knights & beastmen. Whilst blasting away at the enemy w. magic.
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Khornesone
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Warrior of the Chamber
You know, I've kinda always held marauder horsemen in disdain because they're pretty weak.

If only there was some way to have a character in the unit and keep the fast cav. Then again, it's a cheap core choice and a character on steed could keep close enough to them to count in most ways that matter.

I may have to look into this, but playing a list without any rank and file would take some getting used to.

Khornesone

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rogge_85
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Marauderhorsemen is great & yes a fast army is definitely the way to play Tzeentch
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rogge_85
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snyggejygge
Nov 29 2004, 05:16 AM
General: Exalted of Tzeentch, w. Gaze of the gods, spellfamiliar, steed, shield & a great weapon. 237 pts

Hero: Exalted of Tzeentch, w. greatweapon, steed, Armour of damnation,  & shield. 222

Hero: Brayshaman, lvl 2 upgrade, dispelscroll & Staff of Darkoth. 160

Core:
5 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch: Chosen, Full command. 295

5 Chaos Knights of Tzeentch: Full Command, warbanner. 260

5 Marauderhorsemen: Musician, flails & throwing axes. 101

5 Marauderhorsemen: Musician, flails & throwing axes. 101

8 Chaos Hounds. 48

6 Chaoshounds. 36

1 Chaos Chariot of Tzeentch: Mark of Tzeentch. 140

Special:

Beastherd: 16 Gors, 8 Ungors, full command. 179

4 Screamers. 132

6 Furies. 90

Total: 2001
# of Powerdice:11
# of Dispeldice:5


This was a very interesting list for Tzeentch players, any Tzeentchians out there who knows if it works?
I mean playing without a Lord & any discriders, but still have a great movementphase.
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Cromador
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The Chosen
Here are a few things that'll help any fleeting Tzeentch player, expecially Khornesone. Though you've already gone over the things i am about to talk about, i will reiterate them.

Firstly, it's always good to have a lord of tzeentch. Level four sorcerer complete with the fantastic lore of tzeentch. The staff of change is quite potent, though usually you should put your lord up frount leading the troops, so taking such an expensive non-combat item could mean trouble.

Second, definitely take horrors. Though your opponant nearly always stops them, thats the point. To draw out your opponents dispel dice and them rip them to shreds with more powerful magic. Magical banners also do this job fantastically.

Looking for a rock hard Tzeentch combat unit? Look no further then 18-20 chosen warriros of tzeentch with doulbe hand weapons and the tzeentch magic banner. Provided the banner gets of (which it can if you use it at the end of the magic phase), you have a unit with 3 attacks each, a respectable 4+ save and, more importantly, a 5+ ward save! Tzeentch knights also use this banner well, though make sure they are sizable enough to really break the enemy.

Also, using furies AND screamers together is quite effective as neither unit gets isolated if you have a bad time rolling dice with them or if they get tied down.

Finally, remember to keep your units B I G (ish) the bigger they are, the better, and the harder they are for you opponent to breaks.

Happy gaming!!!
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snyggejygge
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High Zar of Khorne

I donīt know if thatīs really the way to use Tzeentch, having movement & dictate where the fights will be sounds better imo. All the while you keep blasting the enemy with magic.
Tzeentch is the least combat oriented of the chaos mortals (as seen in the mark) & thereforte smaller elite units would probably be a better tactic... (atleast according to the Local Tzeentch players, & they almost always win against any slower army).
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