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Need HELP against Orcs and Gobbos; playing against a very hard veteran
Topic Started: Feb 13 2005, 11:16 PM (294 Views)
Mallekha the Overwhelmer
Missionary of the Plague
[ * ]
hello im playing against an O&G veteran next saturday (the guy has like 50 000-60 000 points :o ) and i need help... its a 2000 pts battle and im using my HoC. Here's afirst list i made, still got like 300 points to spend though:

Exalted Champion of Chaos 249pts

Great Weapon[4]; Tzeentch[70]; Golden Eye of Tzeentch[30], Disc of Tzeentch
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Exalted Champion of Chaos 204pts
Great Weapon[4]; Tzeentch[70]; Armour of Damnation[30]
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16 x Warriors of Chaos 306pts

Great Weapon[2]; Champion[12]; Musician[6]; Standard Bearer[12]; Tzeentch[20]
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3 x Screamers of Tzeentch 99pts
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5 x Knights (Chosen) 310pts

Champion[20]; Standard Bearer[20]; Tzeentch[20]; War Banner[25]
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6 x Marauder Horsemen 108pts

Flail[2]; Musician[6]; Champion[12]
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1 x Chariots of Chaos 140pts

Tzeentch[20]
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1 x Hellcannon of Chaos 295pts

Spell Breaker[25]

am i in the right direction?

any suggestions are welcome
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Darmort
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Black Tavern Mercenary
First of all, you have very few numbers, and personally I'd take the Chosen off the Knights, make them normal.

Then I'd add two-three units of 20-30 Marauders. You're going to need Marauders, give them Light Armour and Shields. Although a unit with Great Weapons wouldn't go a miss either.

I'd also take some Warhounds and take one of the Marauder Riders, with any other Points you might be able to get a Sorcerer with Fire/Death Magic to do some extra damage.

My opinion though,
Darmort
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Lightbringer
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Evil Wizards Inc.
Well, I have little experience against orcs, but I have learned a few things.

§ Things that do little damage are not worth it, there are to many of them. The screamers for example. Unless you think he will have some warmachine you just must take out, don't include them. Even if he has I would personaly let the horsemen take care of that. So drop the screamers.

§ Use big units. Orcs are good fighters and have large units, you don't want them to have full rank bonus and you not have it. So with the points you get from dropping the screamers, take more warriors to your unit, and make them chosen if you can.

§ They do not have high I, use this fact. So drop the GW on things, it is better to strike before them so they can not hit back.

As Damort, I think you run the risk of beeing overwelmed by the sheer number of them. A chariot does good damage, but against orcs it probably can't stem the tide. So you might want to take as many marauders with flails as you can get instead of it. That should give you another good sized unit to hold them up.

And I would take Gaze of the Gods in the first character instead. O&G shooting is not the best, so giving him a ward specificly agaisnt shooting is a bit of a waste when you have the possibility of getting a 4+ ward. Don't worry about the spawn thing, you first have to flee, and then fail a rally before it takes effect. At that time, with such a fast character, you probably have fleed of the board!

But O&G can have so many different things, so it depends alot on what he has. Letting the character on disk (with the Gaze of the Gods as I suggested) still have GW might be good, just in case he takes a giant or something else that needs sorting out. He gets s7, so he can chop chariots into firewood without breaking a sweat.
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Mallekha the Overwhelmer
Missionary of the Plague
[ * ]
ok you convinced me one using my marauders for once...never thought they could be useful but ill try... 20+of them with flails should work right?

im still not sure about dropping the screamers, im pretty sure he'll use a warùmachine to shrink my combat units so IMO the screamers will be useful and then i can still charge in the rear or slow units down if im behind his lines...

i just painted up a unit of 6 hounds maybe i could include them but im not so sure theyll be useful...maybe just to lure out some eventual fanatics i dont know

thanks for the replies, some more thoughts?
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The Flying Beaver
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Clanlord
Take two units of 5 warhounds. They're great for bringing out fanatics.
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Lightbringer
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Evil Wizards Inc.
Yeah, you really don't want fanatics on your knights or something.
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The Flying Beaver
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Clanlord
having those 2 units to surge forward and release as many fanatics as possible is the best course of action you can make against the orcs. With the fanatics initial attack wasted on a 30 point unit (and maybe the mad cap mushrooms too), they have wasted a fair amount of points.
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archysucks_Hail_Crom
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I've got candy......
you should have atleast 1 unit of warhounds per unit of his gobbo's, fanatics are his biggest threat to you especially with mad caps making them 2d6 hits.

The marauders are a great idea I like to use them in suicide squads of 12 with flails. Use a simple hammer and anvil technique with a huge unit of warriors marching forward engaging the enemy and as soo as they engage you slam them in the flank with these lil' bugga's.

The hellcannon has never ever worked for me it has always bit me in the ass but I do love the model.

Definately take a fire sorcerer conflagration is horrible on a gobbo unit.

I would go with a Lord against O&G I always make it a point to challenge his generals/champions because your mega killy lord is usually way harder than his and this is playing against an orc sore point their horrible LD.

I would not take tzeentch against a O&G army but I really don't like the tzeentch lore
red =long range magic missle
orange= good but it r.i.p.(irony) tying up your sorcerer
green= unegaged 2 feet ties up an enmy who attacks themselves
blue= 12" for 9+ 2d6 or not that sucks
indigo= S2 hit without negating armor= good fuckin luck and at 11+ I might add
Violet= 6" unegaged enemy CHARACTER that fails a ld test yeah right.

to review

red=decent
orange=good but you cna't use your sorc from then on
green= I like it but I think it should affect characters as well.
blue=sucks
indigo=most useless spell in the game award goes too..
violet=the second runner up of ^

BUt its your army play stink oops tzeentch if you want I just suggest at least 1 fire sorcerer for conflagration.

thats about it let the pro tzeentch flaming begin..
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Lightbringer
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Evil Wizards Inc.
My take:

Red - Decent
Orange - Decent, if cast last, but not great. Can be cast while in combat to help in the combat phase
Yellow -Decent, if cast last, can be cast while in combat.
Green - Great, usualy gives you an like 10+ hits (with a big possibility for more hits) on strenght 4 (if targeted well). What other spell lists can do that? Target smartly.
Blue - Great. Its potential is to big for the enemy to ignore. Target say a chartiot and he will be forced to try and dispell, because it has a good chanse of taking the chariot out. Short range, so you need a roaming mage to use it well.
Indigo - Might be the best spell in the list except for green fire. Sure, only s2 hits, still armoursaves, but you get like 20+ hits and so are bound to create a few horrors. And horrors have bound spells... Also, great for tying upp smaller units so they cant flank you. Your opponent will start to loath this spell if its used to tie all his units up.
Violet - It can be good, but mostly for drawing dispell dices. Many opponents will not want to take the risk. But if they let its slide, you most likly wasted dice for nothing. So only use if there is nothing better to do. Btw, there is nothing saying the character must be unengaged.
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The Flying Beaver
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Clanlord
Against O&G the lore of tzeench is great! Indigo fire is better than warhounds for releasing fanatics, and violet fire is actually useful with those Ld 5 goblin characters! Green fire is great on black orcs, big un's, savage orcs and all that stuff too.
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DEMOLISHER
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Big Bad Orc
Well I play orcs and my kid and some buddies plays chaos
in one or more guises. Some general thoughts for you Mallekha.

#1 Small units do not work. Make your foot troop regiments big.
O&G win by numbers (At least I do ^_^ )

#2 Fanatics hurt, Warhounds are good and cheap and fast enough
draw them out before they crush your knights and warriors with
str.5 no armor save balls of death ;) .

#3 Chariots get smashed real good by Black Orc Big Bosses and
Wabosses with great weapons St=7...ouchy :o

#4 Magic will NOT win you the game. When battle is joined combat from
big enough O&G units will generate extra power and dispell dice for
The O&G shamens. Use magic to blast and sacare off little units of
Gobbo's (IE: wolf riders)

#5 Hell cannon.....Small unit of suicide gobbo wolf riders with spears
charge turn #2 and try to kill the crew. Or just bait the thing if they
fail fear test..... (see #4 )

#6 Marks....Khorne easy to bait into bad spot, lots of units to do it with
.....Nurgle scary boo...works way better than you think. Poor LD ;)
.....Slanne....what ever...not a big help BUT protects from flank panic
.....Tz....Yawn...what ? sorry see archysucks Post above about this :) .

#7 Do NOT discredit O&G shooting out of hand. Our warmachines are great cheap and plentifull. Also Arrer boyz and huge blocks of Gobbos with short bows should not be ignored either (more so if on a hill).

#8 It is better to strike first and kill all the front line than strike last and harder. Most O&G except for Black Orcs, Boar Boyz, Boar chaiots and 'ard Grots have little armor. ('ard Grots = Goblin with HW, shield, LA...save 4+ in cc B) ) and all O&G have poor I.

Thats it off the top of my head. O&G can field great amounts of varied troops and keep you guessing. Later.
Da Demolisher
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