Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Chamber of the Everchosen. We hope you enjoy your visit!


Here at COTEC we are all about the Warriors of Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

Tactics to help you slaughter your opponent on the tabletop, through to galleries on how to build your next Warshrine. Its all covered... and growing!

We are a forum for gamers and hobbyist alike and again would like to welcome you to a fun, friendly, warm place and hope to see you again!


Join our legion! Takes less than a minute and gives you access to everything!


If you're already a member please log in to your account by entering the correct runes and words of power:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
All Mortal Chaos; Is it feasible?
Topic Started: Oct 24 2006, 12:17 AM (453 Views)
ArchGerbil
Member Avatar
Slave
[ * ]
The ArchGerbil scurries up to the nearest big person and gives it the wide-eyed-cuteness stare before viciously nibbling on its toes...

Greetings to one and all!

As you've probably guessed, I am very new to Chaos(never played against or even seen them in action) and I really like the look and feel of the Mortal section of the list! (Meesa no like poofy daemons!! :P )
Anyway, my question is this: Is an all-mortal Chaos list such as the one below actually feasible or are Daemons actually essential in the creation of an effective Chaos force?

All-Mortal list:
Chaos Lord/Exalted Champion(Haven't decided yet... :rolleyes: )
Aspiring Champion
2xSorcerers
1xChosen Warriors(15 - Great weapons + Shields)
1xChosen Knights(5)
2xMarauder Horsemen(5 - Throwing axes + Flails)
2xMarauders(25)

Please advise me on any issues or newbie problems I may have inadvertantly stumbled into...
Thanks in advance!!!

The ArchGerbil glares viciously at his water bowl-thingie which promptly ignores him...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
end of mankind
Member Avatar
Clanlord
Aspiring champions generally aren't worth it. You're way better off when paying 20 points extra and upgrading to exalted. That said, two exalteds often are very good at leading an army, so I wouldn't go with a lord, unless going to really big battles (at least 3000 pts).

You might want to consider de-chosening your warriors, or at least bring their numbers down a bit. 12 warriors often is enough, deployed 6 x 2, you get Combat Resolution from kills, not ranks. This is especially true for chosen (if you decide to keep it), since you pay an INSANE amount of points to get 1 rank bonus.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tammil Augrimm
Member Avatar
The Change Chosen

Agreed. Aspiring champions only exist to carry the battle standard. Exalted champions are a much better investment. The extra attack alone is worth the 20pts.

An all mortal force can work, but a smattering of the fast daemons (such as furies or screamers, or even mounted daemonettes) maeks for a more complete army. I've always believed that every chaos army needs a unit of 8 furies to kill off enemy artilliary, hunt down lone mages, kill off fast cavalry, marchblock, set up crossfires, and generally make a nuciense of themselves. ^_^
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rimmz
The Chosen
Its possible the above suggestions are sound you don't need a lot of warriors just enough to maintain your frontage from casualties.

Most agree with Tam that Furies or Screamers are imperative however a unit of Marauder Horsemen can do in a pinch. They are nowhere near as good at it though.

Chaos suffers from War machines as they have very little protection from them so its best to kill them early
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ominous
Member Avatar
Warrior of the Chamber
Chaos doesn't really need to rely on demons with the exception of furies/screamers as mentioned above. However, beasts can be an integral part of the list if used properly. All mortals do work, but from what I have heard a mix usually works best.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
semi-normal
Member Avatar
Slave
[ * ]
I started with an all mortal undivided army and as I played games my playstyle moved to an army very similar to what you have posted.

The one thing I found out is that I spent every game reacting to my opponents army. I did not have any way of making my opponent come to me or react to things I was doing.

So after much deliberation I added some furies and the game changed for me. Being able to get into the backline so quick made opponents think twice about what was going on. Adding my second unit of Marauder horse to back up the furies was also something that added heaps to my army.

My answer is to give your plan a go. If you get bored with the way your army plays you may find that fast movement element is necesary though.

BTW I have not managed to find a use for Throwing axes yet, might save you some points by dropping them, others may argue with me here.

Also I must ask where are the Hounds? You are going to need them as diverters and to generally get in the way of your opponents counter chargers. I dont know how many times my hounds have saved me from a Heavy Cav charge to the flank.

EDIT: Sorry I forgot to mention chariots, there are very few units than can stand a combined charge of 25 Marauders and a Chariot. The chariot doesn't even need to hit the flank, just charge in alongside the marauders.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ArchGerbil
Member Avatar
Slave
[ * ]
The ArchGerbil runs on his wheel is the oh so cute fashion that onlt the ArchGerbil can manage!!!

Thanks for the response guys! The advice REALLY helped!!

It seems overwhelmingly obvious that I need to include at least some daemons in the army to make it competitive... Oh well... :rolleyes:

Is there anything else I need to know about how Mortal Chaos operates? I've read through the Tactica already but I'd like a few opinions: What does chaos struggle against? What does Chaos exel at? etc...

Cheers!

The ArchGerbil turns his furry head, hearts melt...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
archysucks_Hail_Crom
Member Avatar
I've got candy......
well honestly the blatantly obvious we suffer for not having any range whatsoever.(First person to mention hellcannon and throwing axes dies!!)

we excel in melee however.

as to your all mortal force I have seen marauder horde armies work before but they were led by Crom and thus benefitted from the MoCU which helps Ginormously. also Crom himself is a beast. ;)

honestly I have found what has already been stated furies/screamers are pretty much a must. you could do the same thing with dogs in theory but nowhere near as well.

I have also found the beasts to an excellent addition with cheap characters and quite possibly the most versatile unit in the game the beast herd. I also like the Dragon Ogres these little pretties are my babies. though most people will tell you to spend the 250 pts. somewhere else I love 'em also don't overlook the giant as both a scare tactic and a very viable bullet magnet. ;) The other thing I love about BoC is the slaughterer's blade it is quite possibly my favorite magic weapon stick it on an exalted in the middle of a 25 man unit of marauders with sword and board and watch the breaking action! B)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tammil Augrimm
Member Avatar
The Change Chosen

Yeah, Chaos excels at primarily 2 things, combat and controling the magic phase.

With combat we can go pretty much all ways. We can have a fast, hard hitting army full of knights, chariots, horsemen, monsters, and fliers. We can have an infantry horde of marauders and beasts backed up by some rock hard chaos warriors, or we can do a mix-match of the 2. Furies and screamers are perhaps the best warmachine/mage hunters in the game. And needless to say that the Champions of Chaos are amongst the scariest combat monsters in Warhammer.

In the magic phase can can dominate the oppositon with the inclusion of some Tzeentch marked units to boost our powerdice, and the lores available to a chaos general are excellent (fire, death, shadows, beasts, plus the 3 god specific lores). Champions of Tzeetch are the mightiest warrior-mages in the warhammer world!

The extra dispel dice generated by khorne marked units is excellent for a little mystical defense, to foil the oppositions mastical plans.


What do we suffer from? Strangely enough it doesn't seem to be gunlines as we have numerous tools at our disposal to spoil their days like cheap hounds, furies, screamers, and herds. I find what we most suffer from is enemies that simply won't stand still and FIGHT us, such as wood elves and skink hordes with their guerilla tactics, though the new skirmisher rules should eleviate this somewhat.....
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
gormo
Slave
[ * ]
"BTW I have not managed to find a use for Throwing axes yet, might save you some points by dropping them, others may argue with me here."
i know its a little off topic but there is one thing they are good for and thats hunting ratling guns in 7th edition(they can be targeted with shooting weapons even when next to a unit and u dont have to put up with a stand and shoot reaction like when trying to take them out in close combat)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
semi-normal
Member Avatar
Slave
[ * ]
Good point Gormo, although I dont have any Skaven opponents so I cant use your tactics :(

Gunline armies are my armies weakness (being a mostly Mortal Undivided army). I kinda get the feeling that the only way I can make my opponent come to me is by verbally abusing him :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rogge_85
Member Avatar
Anti spammer
Or you could use Hellcannons or Dogs of War Cannons (I have a pair of Dogs of War cannons in my Tzeentch army, itīs quite a defensive list with lots of magic, throwing axes on horsemen & 2 cannons, everybody is surpries when up against it the first few times, because theyīve never seen a defensive Tzeentch army & thatīs what I like about it, the surprise & the different playstyle.)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
theDarkGeneral
Member Avatar
Warrior of the Chamber
An all Chaos Mortals list is feesible, but not the way you have it listed. Your opponent will easily enough be able to recognize your 2 threats to his/her Army; the Chosen Warriors and Chosen Knights.

Most Armies have some form of Shooting and some Magic, this will target the much faster Knights either wiping them out, or reducing them to a model or two. The Warriors would be next, and probably march blocked by an annoying unit of Scouts, Skirmishers, Fast Cav, Fliers, etc.


Your Marauders will look cool on the table, but are hard pressed to beat even Empire Spearmen in Close Combat.


If you want to stay "purist" and bring only Mortals you need more Knights and Warriors. Just my thoughts, hope they help.




Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Chaos · Next Topic »
Add Reply