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| Nurgle Spell Pestilence; Rule Query on Nurgle spells | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 11 2007, 04:48 AM (698 Views) | |
| SkunkAlun | Sep 11 2007, 04:48 AM Post #1 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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I just wanted some clarification on the Nurgle spell pestilence, i was under the impression that once cast it cannot be dispelled until you either recast it or the wozard who cast it died, but have since be informed it is a normal remain in play spell even though it says exactly the opposite on the card so a little bit confused. Any thoughts anyone? Also I was told to try the marauder horde mentaility in my Nurgle Mortal ar,y and it worked very well so thanks for that. :rock: |
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| snyggejygge | Sep 11 2007, 05:16 AM Post #2 |
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High Zar of Khorne
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It does not work as a normal remains in play spell, who told you that? I believe it can be dispelled in later turns, yes, but you can cast other spells while it remains in play. |
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| SkunkAlun | Sep 11 2007, 01:44 PM Post #3 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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So does that mean if you cast any other remain in play spells you can't cast anything else? |
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| decker_cky | Sep 11 2007, 03:24 PM Post #4 |
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Biased Towards Beasts
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It's not a remains in play spell, so you can continue casting as described in the spell. Furthermore, it can not be dispelled at a later point like a remains in play spell. Here's a discussion that deals with the difference between it and a remains in play spell on the herdstone: http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index...opic=11205&st=0 |
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| Tammil Augrimm | Sep 11 2007, 09:43 PM Post #5 |
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The Change Chosen
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:blink: Pestilence can indeed be dispelled in later rounds. It says so in the spell description itself...
The difference between Pestilence and true "Remains in Play" spells is that it doesn't end if the sorcerer casts another spell or if he is slain. Additionally, the caster can cast this spell on multiple units over successive turns. It can indeed still be dispelled in later magic phases against it's base casting value of 11+. If it could not be dispeled in later phased, they would not include the phrase "unless Pestilence is dispeled". Does fireball say "target unit takes D6 S4 hits unless fireball is dispelled"? Does any other spell? No. Why not? Because if a spell is dispelled when cast, none of the effect of the spell outlined in the spell description takes place, making the addition reduncant and pointless. The only reason to include it is if Pestilence CAN be dispelled DESPITE not being a standard Remains in Play spell. |
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| decker_cky | Sep 11 2007, 11:02 PM Post #6 |
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Biased Towards Beasts
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Actually, the rulebook is very specific about what can and cannot be dispelled on later rounds:
Pestilence fits under 'Spells lasting one or more turns' to the letter. That quote you said isn't saying it's a RiP spell but it's not, it's saying that it's similar to a remains in play spell in that it lasts for multiple turns, but it will affect the unit unless it is dispelled. When can it be dispelled? When it is cast. |
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| snyggejygge | Sep 11 2007, 11:45 PM Post #7 |
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High Zar of Khorne
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Good points decker_cky, just like gjnoronh on herdstone & Tammil here, I believe that it can be dispelled, but you´ve atleast made me rethink it. Still not sure on how it works (& won´t be until GW makes a new armybook or releases a new FAQ), I guess I would talk about it w. my opponent before the game if I played Nurgle & come to an agreement, telling him about the things you pointed out, & what the exact description says & what both of us considered to be most fair. |
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| Tammil Augrimm | Sep 12 2007, 12:08 AM Post #8 |
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The Change Chosen
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As Pestilence says it lasts until dispelled, it still fits with the rules. I fail to see the problem...... :huh: |
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| SkunkAlun | Sep 12 2007, 03:54 AM Post #9 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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The main problem I had was it says although it effectively remains in play it is not a remains in play spell. How I was playing it is that if successfully cast it takes effect, then again before the enemy gets to try and dispel the spell while it is still on his/her unit. The bit I don't understand (and am unable to check as my rulebook is at a mates) is what rules there are for remain in play spells and what the strict difference is between a remain in play and Pestilence so if you like what makes it better? can you normally cast the same spell again stacking it up as you can in the case of pestilence with other spells? and in both cases should the wizard die does the spell remain until dispelled? Don't misunderstand me this spell is evil either way just like to make sure I am doing things correctly and am happy either way just curious. If you could stack it up what dispel value does the enemy have to get is it 11 plus or 22plus!!! (a bit excessive!) or two seperate lots of 11 plus?? :ph43r: |
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| decker_cky | Sep 13 2007, 01:19 AM Post #10 |
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Biased Towards Beasts
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The spell description never describes that it can be dispelled as a RiP spell, only that it will continue to affect the unit, unless it it dispelled. You're confusing unless and until, whereas until would imply you'd have a chance to dispell it in the future, unless doesn't imply any dispelling beyond the normal rules, which don't allow a future chance to dispell it. There is nothing there implying it can be dispelled seperately from the normal rules. They have 1 shot to dispell it, then it affects them until the end of the game. |
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| Tammil Augrimm | Sep 13 2007, 09:53 AM Post #11 |
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The Change Chosen
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I still find that I must disagree. Every other other spell of this nature (lasts more than a turn) uses the phrase "If successfully cast" in it's description and no mention of dispelling is mentioned at all. "target unit is effected for the rest of the battle unless Pestilence is dispelled." actually DOES imply that it can be dispelled in future magic phases. The "unless" simply is used to describe the condition required to end the spell. If I said, "That banana peel will stay of the floor unless someone picks it up.", does that imply that said banana peel is therefore untouchable? After all, no one picked it up when it was first tossed on the floor..... It's poorly worded perhaps, but the implications are indeed there. Pestilence is a powerful spell as is (2d6 hits with no armour save a game turn since it effects in both players turn) without trying to wringe extra advantage from it. Now the Rod of Corruption on the other hand... THAT can't be dispelled in later turns.... |
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| decker_cky | Sep 13 2007, 01:44 PM Post #12 |
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Biased Towards Beasts
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I disagree with that comparison, but even taking it as gospel. That depends on the context. If you said that to a janitor on shift, he'd have until the end of his shift to pick it up, after which his official (ignore moral ;)) responsibility no longer covers it. Much like that, you already have a context covered for when you can dispell spells such as this: when it is cast. After that, your mages aren't working on it and you refuse to pay overtime wages. Unless means the same thing as "if you don't", and isn't pointing itself as an exception. It's reiterating the rule. Unless you dispell this, it will affect you each turn. And intention-wise, look at the casting cost and placement on the list. It's intended to last for the game once cast, not to have a shot to dispell it each turn. The spell can destroy any unit in the right circumstances, but only if cast during the turns when it is most likely to run into scrolls, and overall it's limited in the targets it can ideally target. |
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| Tammil Augrimm | Sep 13 2007, 06:07 PM Post #13 |
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The Change Chosen
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Actually, even if it can be dispelled, it's placement and casting cost would still be correct. 11+ is quite a resonable casting cost for a spell that will inflict 2D6 S3 hits with no save per game turn (3-4 casualties VS T3 or 2-3 VS T4 regardless of armour on averae dice is pretty sweet). It pretty much ranks up with Curse of the Years (and as you can keep casting I personally find it better than the Curse, even should you allow for dispelling). As for positon in the spell list...... that's rather irrelevent. The final spell in the list is hardly always the most useful or even most powerful. Look at some of the other lores(from the ones I personally use and therefore know): Shadows: Pit of shades, while certainly usefull, isn't the most powerful spell in the list. That honor is reserved for Unseen Lurker. Necromancy: Hands down the most powerful spell award has to be divided between Dance Macabre and Invocation of Nehek rather thanthe Curse. Fire: Now some may disagree, but I've always prefered having Fiery Blast or Conflageration of Doom(sp?) to Wall of Fire Tzeentch: Let's face it, Violet Fire has to be the MOST useless spell in the entire game! 6" range, only targets characters, can't target characters in combat, make a leadership test to avoid? Not sure of the other lores as I either rarely use them (and then only on level 2s so I don't go for the highest spells) except for WAAAGH! magic, which I still haven't made my mind up about which are the best spells (quite a few of them are rather sweet). Overall though, I think we need to disagree on this one. You read it one way, I read it another. It may be as you say, but I always try to err on the side caution. |
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| danceman | Sep 21 2007, 06:13 AM Post #14 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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Yepp, that is how I see it as well. I really dont think its room for debate either. You either dispell the spell or targeted unit is affected for the rest of the game, period. Cheers |
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| Valtiel | Sep 22 2007, 09:18 PM Post #15 |
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The Chosen
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Well, on Druiichi.net some guy posted these answers to questions that were given to Gav Thorpe. They say that Pestilence can be dispelled on later turns. http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?t=49318 |
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