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New Player's Warriors of Chaos; Theory-list for starting Fantasy
Topic Started: Nov 30 2008, 07:41 AM (382 Views)
ProfessorCurly
Warrior of the Chamber
HEROES: Tzeench War Coven

Sorcerer Lord - 385pts
-Level 4 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Skull of Katam
-Golden Eye of Tzeench

Chaos Sorcerer - 220pts
-Level 2 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Infernal Puppet
-Collar of Khorne

Chaos Sorcerer - 185pts
-Level 2 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Power Familiar

I imagine these three flying around in a three inch spread, hiding in the blind spots of enemy shooters/flankers, blasting them with eldritch bolts of arcane fire. The two Level 2 sorcerers will cast Flickering Fire, and then try to get some Baleful Transmogrification off on one dice. The level 2 with Power Familiar will wait till the end of the round and try to sneak in a Pandemonium on two dice if he gets it. The Sorcerer Lord just brings some heft to the magic phase, and is nothing to sneeze at. Hopefully they'll be decently survivable too so long as I position them well. Playing Tau I realize the benefit of a rapid response force, and this is it. Knights rolling up the flank? Fly in and flicker them to death. Repeat.

CORE:

x18 Chaos Warriors - 336pts
-Full Command
-Shields
-Halberds
-Mark of Slaanesh

x18 Chaos Warriors - 336pts
-Full Command
-Shields
-Halberds
-Mark of Slaanesh

Hmmm... Not was I was originally envisioning. Man this really -is- difficult isn't it? These suck up the points rather quickly. How much help with the Command really be? I could drop the commands and one Marauder horseman and have two units of the Horsemen. Three ranks six across.

x6 Marauder Horsemen - 75pts
-Flails
-Mark of Slaanesh

Just something to hold on a flank and throw at some march blockers or whatever. I really wish I had more points. I could drop six warriors and run them in three ranks of five, would free up some serious pointage, but I worry then they wouldn't have enough punch.

RARE:

Hellcannon - 205pts
-x3 Chaos Dwarves

Hellcannon - 205pts
-x3 Chaos Dwarves

I have no experience guessing ranges but these moving as monsters should let you guard a flank rather well. One on each flank. Especially if they can move and shoot; I don't see anything that says they -can't- but then I don't want to play it based off of that.

______________________________________

That is my first jump. I love the Chaos Warriors but understand this list lacks some serious mobility, because all the enemy will do is concentrate everything on taking out the Sorcerers and Horsemen. Although I feel the Hell Cannons will easily hold down the flanks, still...

Here is my second idea.

HEROES: Tzeench War Coven

Sorcerer Lord - 385pts
-Level 4 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Skull of Katam
-Golden Eye of Tzeench

Chaos Sorcerer - 220pts
-Level 2 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Infernal Puppet
-Collar of Khorne

Chaos Sorcerer - 185pts
-Level 2 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Power Familiar

I just like these three. I really do. Don't know if it is cookie cutter or not, really don't care. They are good at what they do.

CORE:

x20 Chaos Warriors - 380pts
-Full Command
-Spears
-Shields
-Mark of Slaanesh

x20 Marauders - 117pts
-Flails
-Musician
-Mark of Slaanesh

x20 Marauders - 117pts
-Flails
-Musician
-Mark of Slaanesh

SPECIAL:

x5 Chaos Knights - 280pts
-Mark of Tzeench
-Standard Bearer w/ Blasted Standard

x5 Chaos Knights - 200pts

x5 Chaos Knights - 200pts

This has more bulk and more mobility at the expense of some durability and hitting power in the troops. The Chaos Knights with the Mark of Tzeench will act as magnet, as it will take disproportional amounts of firepower to knock them down. Could drop a unit of knights and one of the sorcerers and get back the two Hellcannons (just love these defiler wannabes). It gives me a big unit of Warriors to get the job that needs doing done and, and some big masses of humanity to throw into the meatgrinder. They won't last long against some dedicated Dark Elf shooting but then, they aren't supposed too.

I guess this gives you some idea of the kind of things I like. I like Chaos Warriors, Sorcerers, Hell Cannons, and the Chaos Knights. I'm not a fan of Marauders really but I see they add necessary bulk to the army.

Really wish the Marauder Horsemen had a more Mongol/Hun feel. They come from the steppes after all. The Javelins and Throwing Axes are neat but that range is starting to get dangerous.

Well anyway, here are my thoughts just looking at the list. Perhaps I'm investing too much into characters/magic? I don't know, possibly. Having never played the game.

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Godless-Mimicry
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No' 9

The first list would be really hard to manage, but that second list is a perfect starter list. The simple fact is, it's better to take an easy and basic list when starting out to get used to things, then start building a competitive set.
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Tabernacle of Priapus
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The Chosen
ProfessorCurly
Nov 29 2008, 07:41 PM
I have no experience guessing ranges but these moving as monsters should let you guard a flank rather well. One on each flank. Especially if they can move and shoot; I don't see anything that says they -can't- but then I don't want to play it based off of that.

Like all warmachines, Hellcannons cannot move and shoot: page 83. don't mean these are still not awesome!!! I say if you want to drive fear into an enemy, 2 Hellcannons are the way to go. just remember, they will be a target (to put it into a phase you can understand) like 2 squads of Broadsides. they are gonna try to drop it, but if you're prepared for that, you may be able to direct them to your own benefit.
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mrtn
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Swashbuckling Moderator

Tabernacle of Priapus
Nov 30 2008, 01:11 AM
[Like all warmachines, Hellcannons cannot move and shoot: page 83.

Page 83? :huh: Page 83 in the rulebook is about the BSB, Page 83 in the armybook is a pic of Galrauch...
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Tabernacle of Priapus
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The Chosen
mrtn
Nov 29 2008, 10:07 PM
Tabernacle of Priapus
Nov 30 2008, 01:11 AM
[Like all warmachines, Hellcannons cannot move and shoot:  page 83.

Page 83? :huh: Page 83 in the rulebook is about the BSB, Page 83 in the armybook is a pic of Galrauch...

Whooops... 85.. sorry
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kerill
Exalted Guardian
But they aren't war machines, they are monster with handlers. We can't say either way until it's FAQ'd.
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Eta
Member Avatar
Exalted Guardian
Nice list, even if the warriors have the wrong mark (at least form my Tzeentchian point of view :P ). You will have to shuffle the items the sorcerers have a bit around because your second sorcerer is illegal. Infernal Puppet and Collar of Khorne cost 60 points together whereas he may only get magic items up to 50 points.

Other than that, the disco boys approach can work, just watch out for enemy fliers or skirmishers. You really do not want them to be locked down in combat - even if they are quite tough to kill, every magic phase they cannot throw the tainted chaos magic at their enemies will be a blow for the army as a whole.

Greetings
Eta
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Neknoh
Member Avatar
The Chosen
Give the puppeteer the Enchanted Shield and give the Power Familliar user either the Talisman of Protection or the Collar of Khorne, he could even be given the Book of Seecrets should you want to focus more on magic missiles than on defense.

Now, for the lists, I like both, the major flaw however, being the equippment of your Marauders in the second list, 20 with Flails are very susceptible to shooting and will not really be able to take on ranked units unless they have the Mark of Khorne.

As such, I would remove Flails in favour of Lightarmour and shields instead as well as a Full Command, dropping the Blasted Standard, Standard Bearer and the Mark of Tzeentch off of the one knight unit.

Basically, with three units of Chaos Knights, you don't really need the strength five on the Marauders.
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Tabernacle of Priapus
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The Chosen
kerill
Nov 30 2008, 01:44 AM
But they aren't war machines, they are monster with handlers. We can't say either way until it's FAQ'd.

WoC says it fires exactly as a Stone Thrower except where specifically specified, a Stone Thrower cannot move and shoot, ergo the Hellcannon cannot move and shoot because it does not specifically specify it can.

Take for example the Ogre Kingdom Scraplauncher: it has a Stone Thrower-like weapon, it fires exactly as a Stone Thrower except where specifically specified, but it's not a War Machine either; it is a chariot.

there is no need for this to be FAQ'ed, it already is in plain English.
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Godless-Mimicry
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No' 9

Guys there is arguments for both sides, let's wait for the FAQ. But if ye have to debate it, here is not the place.

Cheers.
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ProfessorCurly
Warrior of the Chamber
HEROES: Tzeench War Coven

Sorcerer Lord - 385pts
-Level 4 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Skull of Katam
-Golden Eye of Tzeench

Chaos Sorcerer - 210pts
-Level 2 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Infernal Puppet
-Enchanted Shield

Chaos Sorcerer - 200pts
-Level 2 Wizard
-Mark of Tzeench
-Disk of Tzeench
-Power Familiar
-Talisman of Protection

CORE:

x20 Chaos Warriors - 380pts
-Full Command
-Standard Bearer w/ Banner of Rage
-Halberds
-Shields

x20 Marauders - 150pts
-Hand Weapon
-Light Armor, Shield
-Full Command
-Mark of Slaanesh

x20 Marauders - 150pts
-Hand Weapon
-Light Armor, Shield
-Full Command
-Mark of Slaanesh

SPECIAL:

x6 Chaos Knights - 250pts
-Mark of Slaanesh

x6 Chaos Knights - 250pts
-Mark of Slaanesh

A revised list, should come exactly to 2000 points. I took the Chaos Warriors' mark of Slaanesh away since with the Banner of Rage they are immune to all of those things anyway and the extra str 4/5 attack could really put a hurting on a unit. I'm somewhat concerned about them being baited but since I plan to run them in the middle between the two Marauder blocks it should be somewhat difficult as they will have to bait
basically in front of me... Which is not really helping them since I'm going that way anyway.

I dropped one unit of knights and bumped the other two to 6 men because when I tallied the list up I was 85 points over and that is too much to just pass off (generally 1-4 points over is alright with the people at the club I play at). Less hitting power but more reliable with the Mark of Slaanesh to make sure they don't run at an inopportune time. Thoughts? Should I reshuffle things to get it back to three units of five? (I'm only losing three knights net)

Marauder Blocks... aka Mini-warriors. They provide static combat resolution that doesn't run and doesn't care.

The disco boys are now all legal I think (i opted for the Talisman of Protection over the Collar of Khorne so I could get the Mark of Slaanesh on both units of Knigts). I really need them surviving and I think Flickering Fire is going to have to be the real killer of the list. I'm kind of stuck on how to arrange the Chaos Warriors now though. If they had a character with them, three ranks of Seven. I guess I'll go with three ranks of six with two extras? I could drop the two but I like my big warrior block of doom and gloom. They should smash just about anything they touch with 22 Str5/4 WS 5 attacks. Except maybe heavy knights but I think they could still grind out a win. With the flanks hopefully guarded by the now tougher Marauder blocks, the only ways to engage the Warriors would be from the front or to fly over/around the whole formation and attack the back.

Hopefully the Disco Boys will stop that from happening though, targeting the Flyers and Skirmishers first for some Eldritch love. So to break down the list:

Mobility -

Three flying sorcerers and two units of Chaos Knights. Perhaps not the most mobile of lists but I think it'll provide enough for my purposes. Their main goal will be to support the main battle line and preventing flanking maneuvers as much as possible, then with the battle is reached assist with flank/rear charges as needed. Unless fighting a gunline, in which case everything has to get as far as they can as fast as they can.

An idea I had though was to run the Marauder units in front, with wide formations and use them to 'shield' the more killy stuff behind them against things like dwarves or Empire artillery heavy armies. It might slow the whole procession down but if it gets there with more units at full strength, who really cares?

Endurance -

Three big blocks of infantry that you have to grind your way through, three disco sorcerers dedicated to Stayin' Alive with all of their gear, and two units of heavily armored knights who want nothing more than to rip your face off. I think I have a good balance of bulk and armor in this list to grind down armies in the glorious, bloody, brutal close combat war of attrition.

Hitting Power -

Mainly in the form of the Knights and the Warriors. The Marauders don't have the strength or number of attacks to break really hard things, but they do have static combat resolution going for them if I need it. The Sorcerers will be blasting on turn 1 with any luck, and should generally be a great annoyance to the enemy. The knights might be better suited with a different mark, Khorne most likely to increase their killing power but I don't know A. Where to get the points and B. if I want to risk them being led around by their noses. Thoughts?

Magical Offense -

Two level twos and a level four, all with the mark of Tzeench. I think I have the magical offense covered, and on the Disks they can get where they need to go. I think I have the magical offense pegged down fairly well, especially since when they are all running together they each get +2 to casting rolls.

Power Dice - 11

Magical Defense -

The Sorcerer presence should be able to dispel most of the big things coming at me, but hopefully will be able to nullify enemy magic as soon as possible. Hopefully get get a Pandemonium up and that combined with the Infernal Puppet could cause some hell. However it seems that Pandemonium would be a sure thing that they'll spend their dice to dispel as soon as their turn rolls around... However two dice would be needed to do it at least and three would be needed to do it reliably (which I think is likely.). The odds of rolling a seven or under are a bit better than rolling an eight or over, and since it is a real killer... Really if it gets up it's doing its job. Either: A. Pulling out the Dispel Scrolls, B. Pulling out a goodly number of dispel dice, or C. pulling out a goodly number of power dice on the opponents turn. Really, win, win, win in all three cases.

However a lack of scrolls is somewhat disheartening since most lists I've seen includes at least one, most of the time two. How do you think my magic defense is going to be with this list?

Dispel Dice: 6

Fun Factor -

It's a magic heavy infantry force with two supporting units of knights; really I think this is a fairly well balanced army. It can make itself felt in almost every phase (Shooting not withstanding), and against fear/terror/Rawr! units the only three units that care are the ones that should never really be affected, the Sorcerers themselves. They aren't going to be charging in to any big fear causing units and will generally be harassing the big Terror causers if at all possible (since they will the kinds of things I don't want rampaging through my troops anyway). I think this would be a fun list to play with and against. Yes/no?

Overall -

I'd say the list should be able to hold its own and win a few battles, especially after I get some practice in with it. It includes basically everything I liked when I looked at the list (going to have lots of fun picking out/converting models for those Sorcerers. I want my Sorcerers to keep the same look as the rest of the army, iron clad and ready for battle. The Mutation thing is cool in the story and all but I prefer the Iron Clad and Battle Ready look. Any suggestions there? Although I -do- like the look of sorcerer in the top left of page 86 of the codex. No face chainmail guy. Also the cloaked guy kneeling at the middle of the page with the sword.

Anyway. I have sixty boots on the ground, twelve heavy cavalry and three flying madman shooting lightning out of their eyes. That's just kind of awesome.

So any thoughts on this my (Hopefully) list for the future? Any misunderstandings I may be having about rules/costs/etc?

And thank you all for the advice, you guys are much more helpful than basically every other site I've been too. (The Advanced Tau Tactica being tied but they don't do army lists anymore and are more a repository of strategic/tactical musings amongst other things. Anyway).

Bow before the iron will of Chaos
~The Professor
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