| Welcome to The Chamber of the Everchosen. We hope you enjoy your visit! Here at COTEC we are all about the Warriors of Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy Battle. Tactics to help you slaughter your opponent on the tabletop, through to galleries on how to build your next Warshrine. Its all covered... and growing! We are a forum for gamers and hobbyist alike and again would like to welcome you to a fun, friendly, warm place and hope to see you again! Join our legion! Takes less than a minute and gives you access to everything! If you're already a member please log in to your account by entering the correct runes and words of power: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| 0-3 Third game third loss; What am i doing wrong | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 2 2008, 04:15 AM (299 Views) | |
| mcpolle | Dec 2 2008, 04:15 AM Post #1 |
|
The Chosen
|
Played q 2500pt against a very strange VC, Start with my army, and my ideas behind what I took. Sorcerer lord,MoT Disc, Infernal puppet, dispel scroll, Conjoined Humonculos (ok, problem here was made the army with AB, and did not realise that I would have to roll for stupidity next round if I used it, otherwise, was well pleased with him) Sorcer lvl 2 MoN Dispel scroll, collar of Khorne, barded steed, ( not fluffy, but not playing with bunny rabbits either, took him for the sniping spell, hoping to drag out DD, or maybe a scroll) Exalted hero, MoT, BSB Disc, book of secrets, Golden eye, flail, sh, (All round type of guy, good to have a BSB, with LD8, and can fight on his own if needed) These were all the characters I took, trying to conserve points for troops. 5 Hounds (to take table quarters, or just get in the way) 5 marauder horse, MoS, flail, sh, muso 5 same as above 5 marauder horse, sh 6 Knights, muso, std, MoT, Blasted std (idea here was that they could take any kind of shooting, and still deliver the punch, kinda wasted on VC, but did not know what my opponent was gonna play) 6 Knights, muso, std, Banner of Rage, MoN ( simply the best combo for knights, I think) 4 Dragon ogrs, gt weapons ( in case I had to hit anything hard, also saves me taking three units of knights) Chariot of slaneesh (just have a cool one converted, so always take it. Hellcannon ( never tried it before, and wanted to see what all the fuss is about, kinda wasted against VC) Spawn,(just because I could, actually gave a wound to a vampire- That was my army, and why I chose what I did, Played against a very different VC, with a Lord, and a vampireBSB, that was it in characters, 2* 10 wraiths, very scary units as all I had against them were my knights, 3 units of ghouls, and some wolves and a couple of corpse carts, so a very different army to play against. The ghouls units died off to my MoN knights, and the wolves died off too, but that was about it, I had no answer to his vanhells, and the wraiths, just could not stop them, they rocked, had a couple of times where i cast with irresistable force the Gateway, but did not roll high enough to kill off his lord. Just feel ,that my Nurgle knights are fantastic, and have already changed the other unit to the same mark, it is just too good not to have, where as MoT is good, but only if you are getting shot at. I like the DO, as it gives me some hard hitting power, Hell I actually really like the army, just does not seem to be working for me. Have thought lots about taking a dragon, but iot seems like a hell of a lot of points in an already expensive army. i used to be ace with the old Chaos army, but this is one hell of a nut to crack, I am missing my cheap beast magicians, and my furies :angry: Help an aged chaos player, please. Polle |
![]() |
|
| Godless-Mimicry | Dec 2 2008, 04:26 AM Post #2 |
|
No' 9
![]()
|
Seems like all you are missing is more magical defense. Two things seem out of place in your characters that may help, Infernal Puppet with no Black Tongue, and Nurgle Sorcerer without a second Nurgle Sorcerer. Maybe change the MoN for MoT, or make him unmarked for a variety of lore choices. Also change the puppet for another scroll and try and make points for the Power Familiar, maybe by dropping the shields on the Horsemen. |
![]() |
|
| Rimmz | Dec 2 2008, 04:45 AM Post #3 |
|
The Chosen
|
Well mind you this is just my opinion. I think the problem is you have nothing that will hold ground. I think some of the things in the old list (Furies, Herd screens, cheap casters) made chaos playable in a way that isnt what is intended in the new book. This is also why I think all cav/fast movers is not the way to go in the new book. The new book is all about getting into combat and taking a beating for 2 or 3 turns while dishing out a beating that the other guy cant take. You have a lot of hard hitting knights but nothing in your army can take wounds with the exception of the DO's and maintain 100% combat effectiveness. I think the overall design of the book is to be a slug it out list not a hit you hard and move through. I realize that worked in HoC and knights are now even better but we also didnt have to spend points on core, didnt have to worry so much about War Machines because we had the best WM hunters in the game. Now to go all cav you have to buy 3 units of marauder horsemen. Be honest how many people take the 3 units because they want them and not because they need the core? Now as far as your list and trying to make it work the problem is that you are probably running stright at the other guy and hoping to smash through in 1 round and not take any hits back. Problem with this is when it doesnt work or you roll bad your screwed. Or if they are playing Cav and they charge you. Your screwed. Your playing against HE and they have a White Lion unit. Your Screwed. Knights and Hammers are great but you need an anvil for them to hit against |
![]() |
|
| Godless-Mimicry | Dec 2 2008, 04:50 AM Post #4 |
|
No' 9
![]()
|
I use all cavalry with heavy magic and beg to differ strongly. The key to the list is choosing your fights, and with fast movement that is very very manageable. |
![]() |
|
| Gundamfly | Dec 2 2008, 04:53 AM Post #5 |
|
Warrior of the Chamber
|
So 5DD and 2 scrolls is not enough defense? That is honestly about as heavy magic d as you will see in any chaos army. The infernal puppet is a great item and fits in very well with your army. Black tongue is rather overpriced and hard to fit in the army. Besides that I definiately agree with Godless that your nurgle caster is out of place. One sniping character will be very ineffective. Why does he have the collar of khorne? I would give him MoT as well to give you more magic missile support. It is hard to determine what happened in that battle but it seemed like an interesting game. Your magic and knights should have been able to manhandle those big wraith units. I can understand wanting to cast Infernal gateway on his lord, but relying on the blow up effect is a waste of this very good spell. That spell should of been focused on the wraiths instead, an average roll would decimate the unit. So after all that, my big suggestion to you is to fine tune your characters a bit and focus on magic a bit more. Tzeentch magic is very good, the base spell rocks and so it works very well for lvl 2 mages as well. Recognize threats early in a game and determine what your magic can do to either distract or help deal with those threats. |
![]() |
|
| mcpolle | Dec 2 2008, 05:20 AM Post #6 |
|
The Chosen
|
Thx for the comments guys, I understand that about the Nurglr guy, but am hoping with him to extract dd , so as can get the other more powerfull spells off. I would love to habe an exalted with MoK, and on a jugger as the figure just rocks, but there are a lot of draw backs with him, but he is hard as nails, normally give him collar, ench shield, biting blade. GM, have you a link to your all mounted army?? would like to see how you have put it together. Also love the discs, gives a lot more playing room, than the barded horses, also he can get himself out of, and in trouble easier- Polle |
![]() |
|
| ukko | Dec 2 2008, 05:47 AM Post #7 |
|
Exalted Guardian
|
I'm slightly surprised that you struggled with wraiths, given that you have 2 units of knights with magic weapons and 9PD. You also seem largely invulnerable to psychology, and apart from the wraiths, he had no other units that should've been able to trade blows. You maybe could've just pumped everything you had into killing off the wraiths - leave him beef up those ghouls and raise zombies all he likes, once the wraiths are dead he's got nothing that can fight you really. Then the last 2 or 3 turns are just a game of "is it a win or a massacre?". |
![]() |
|
| Godless-Mimicry | Dec 2 2008, 06:50 AM Post #8 |
|
No' 9
![]()
|
My guess is that the magic weapons were forgotten, God knows I always forget.
Sure thing buddy: http://z4.invisionfree.com/cotec/index.php...opic=4315&st=15 It's the latest list on the page. |
![]() |
|
| JRBunn02 | Dec 2 2008, 06:52 AM Post #9 |
|
Warrior of the Chamber
|
Yeah, I'm not sure what he would have used to kill anything in your army. Nurgle Knights can hold off the Wraiths, as even with the charge they shouldn't do much to you (WS2 wraiths don't do much). He doesn't have a way to get to the casters, a normal thing with VC's. The rest of your units are just plain better. Horsemen should be able to take the charge from the hounds and kill enough back to wipe them, Spawn + Hellcannon can just charge in and hold his ghouls until he rolls a bunch of 6's. |
![]() |
|
| mcpolle | Dec 2 2008, 07:03 AM Post #10 |
|
The Chosen
|
did not forget about the magic weapons, he got the charge against my MoT knights, totally forgot that wraiths had three attacks each, he killed a couple of knights, i rolled bad, he outnumbered and caused terror, so goodbye knights. My other knights, killed off the two units of ghouls, then finally got flanked by the other unit of wraiths, and he got a van hels off, and got those too. But yes, should have concentrated more magic on the ghouls, should have used gateway on them, but there also was a chance of winning big, if i rolled high on the lord unit. Any thoughts on the Hellcannon??? Is it not just an overpriced skull chucker??? But still has a chance of leveling a BT in one turn. Polle |
![]() |
|
| Killax | Dec 2 2008, 07:12 AM Post #11 |
|
Slaughterer of Khorne
|
Dunno who shouted the Knights are bad (or cav is a bad list) but that's loads of bull, that is what I do know. You need to know the set up to offcourse. What you did wrong? Well if my calculations are correct your army counts max 2250 points, not 2500. Appart from that I would say, create more unity. Have MoS on Marauder horseman? Use 3 units and not 2 and one without mark. It wouldn't be only confusing but it would make the single markless unit quite pointless (imho) The Knights/Do's look good. But in my honest opinion (and I do like the Hellcanon, it's pointless having 1 in a cav list, 2 might be a different story, but 1 will only arive to late, in special in such an army) If you start wrong (even if it's the army update) start as reliable as possible. That's what I do, that's what works for me. So Have your standard sorcerer build and a Exalted with BSB. Honeslty dropping the Hellcanon for another sorcer doesn't sound bad imho (just fit him in the knights or on a steed of slaanesh in horseman, so he can shoot out and kill a warmachine if needed) Drop the MoS on Marauder Horseman, generally they are much better with this, but this is ocaisionally. I didn't need it yet... Terror cause things shouldn't be charged by Marauder Horseman in general and they do have will of chaos. More Warhounds! Honestly, people screem they are bad/irritating but if it comes to shooty armies, you wish you always had a full unit of them everywhere. Plus they help in the anti warmachine department imho. That's all for now. Cheers, |
![]() |
|
| Godless-Mimicry | Dec 2 2008, 07:15 AM Post #12 |
|
No' 9
![]()
|
Where the Hellcannon comes into its own, is the ability to fight very well, to skirmish, and to hold a table quarter while denying VP to the opponent. |
![]() |
|
| Killax | Dec 2 2008, 07:16 AM Post #13 |
|
Slaughterer of Khorne
|
Now onto anti VC. Vs this kind of armies, the DO's are completly unneeded, you might see a Black Choach once in 10 battles. But generally you'll see your better of with the heavy hitting knights. Wraiths should be your prime target if they are able to charge you earlier. Also keep in mind to focus magic on units that can do harm to your knights or charge them! In general, keep your knights alive. Thake the Black Tongue/Puppet to, you'll do some severe damage to his general that's for sure, if not killing him. Cheers, |
![]() |
|
| mcpolle | Dec 2 2008, 11:20 PM Post #14 |
|
The Chosen
|
ok, thx for the feedback, need to mention that here in DK genrally our tournies do not allow more than 2 of the same special, therefore only 2 units of knights. Think I will try and take the DO down to a unit of 3, I always used to have them in 3's before, and they always did well for me, so no reason to spend the points on the 4th, i know it is probably better, but good to save points where I can. We do not get to run double rares here either, so no 2 Hellcannons, think I will give it a couple of chances tho. As said before can see that a single Nurgle sorcerer is ok, but probably not good enough. But how about a Slaneesh dude, because ITP, does not mean immune to stupidity, if I read it correctly. Otherwise like the character build, leaves them to run around causing "CHAOS" ;) and leaves the units to kick butt. Am playing agian tonight against HE, i do not like to make my armies especially against my opponents, so will just reveiw the same list make a few adjustments, and see how it goes. Will get back to ya. polle |
![]() |
|
| Rimmz | Dec 2 2008, 11:47 PM Post #15 |
|
The Chosen
|
Im not saying all cav lists are bull Im saying that the new list is more designed towards tough as nails infantry. All the points I said about an all cav list are still true however. If you loose 2 knights in a 5 man unit thats 40% of your combat power. 60% may still be enough to win combat but what about the next combat? I just think that knights and faster units are more about supporting blocks of infantry than being a primary unit. Which is why they are not core. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Armylist · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2








10:52 PM Jul 11