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3000 pt list for 2v2; WoC 3000 point list for a 2v2 game
Topic Started: Dec 10 2008, 02:32 AM (130 Views)
Kadrium
Slave
[ * ]
Putting this list up for critique. This will be a 12,000 point game. 3,000 points per army, 2 vs 2 game. I will be paired with a Greenskins player. He's bringing a fairly horde heavy list with a lot of boyz and blorcs, so I can generally skimp on things like big blocks of marauders, and take a list more full of hammer units, to play off his anvil blocks of blorcs and boyz.

We will be playing against an Empire & Brettonia duo. The Empire list is more heavily focused on blocks of infantry with detachments, a couple smaller units of archers/handgunners and some pistoliers. He's bringing 2 Great Cannons and 2 Hellblasters. The full empire list can be found here. He is not bringing any knights. That is being left up (rightly so) to the Bret player, who will be of course going cav heavy, some peg knights, and a trebuchet. He hasn't posted his list. I've already addressed to the Empire player that his BSB is illegal.

We are self limiting to 6 levels of magic or less. The Bret player is only bringing 2 damsels. The Empire player is bringing 2 lvl 2 wizards, but also an Arch Lector on pope mobile, and a war priest. I find that somewhat cheesing around our "6 lvls of magic" guideline, but technically he's not crossing the line. We are also not bringing any special characters.

Without further ado, the list:

Characters - I realize I "could" take a lot more heroes, but I feel that nearly a third of my points spent here was already more than enough.

Chaos Lord - 339pts - Taking Aether Sword to cut through heavy Bret & Empire armors. Runeshield to negate nasty autohit/wound/d6wound weapons. Will be joining a unit of Chaos Knights.

  • Aether Sword
  • Chaos Runeshield
  • Favor of the Gods
  • Chaos Steed

Sorcerer Lord - 425 pts - Will likely be hanging out with a unit of knights, or out on his own with his mobility.

  • Level 4 Upgrade
  • Mark of Tzeentch
  • Rod of Torment
  • Power Familiar
  • Conjoined Homunculus
  • Dispel Scroll
  • Disc of Tzeentch

Chaos Sorcerer - 196 pts - I expect the Nurgle Lore to be effective against heavily armored toughness 3 models, which the Empire and Bret lists will be full of. Will probably join the Marauder foot troops.

  • Leve 2 upgrade
  • Mark of Nurgle
  • Spell Familiar
  • Dispel Scroll
  • Chaos Steed

Character Total Points: 960

Core - Again, I can count on the O&G player I'm paired with to provide many of the rank-and-file hordes of infantry, so most of my points here are spent on screeners. One block of Marauder foot for variety and to meet core requirements. Chaos Warriors included because they're nice and killy while marked Khorne, and should match up well against blocks of state troops.

5 Chaos Warhounds - 30 pts - Standard screening fodder. Will generally be around to keep the reins on my Khorne troops and bait charges.

5 Chaos Warhounds - 30 pts - Same as above.

5 Marauder Horsemen - 91 pts - Slaaneshi mark makes sure they'll not be scared off trying to march block any possible terror causers, and will not panic to the last man if/when they take shooting casualties. Flails so they can pack a punch on a flank charge if required, have an easy time taking out warmachine crew if they can make it to them, and to match up against any pistoliers or yeomen.

  • Flail
  • Musician
  • Mark of Slaanesh

5 Marauder Horsemen - 91 pts - As above.

  • Flail
  • Musician
  • Mark of Slaanesh

25 Chaos Marauders - 170 pts - Nothing fancy. Gives the Nurgle Sorcerer someplace to hide.

  • Full Command
  • Light Armor
  • Shields

12 Chaos Warriors - 259 pts - Nicely killy. Trying to keep the army balanced and not abuse fast moving units. Will probably run 6-7 wide, Tzeentch caster may end up here. Unfluffy but not a bad place for him to be.

  • Mark of Khorne
  • Shields
  • Standard Bearer
  • Warbanner

Total Core Points: 671

Special - Leaning on the special slots hard for the heavy hitters to compliment my teammate's blocks of boyz. It's not hard to see where my preferences lay, plus I have the models to actually field this stuff. IMO, Chosen are overpriced, Forsaken are worthless, Trolls are overpriced, and I only own 1 chariot, which is easily outperformed by Ogres for 60 points more.

5 Chaos Knights - 285 pts - Best of both worlds with the Nurgle mark and the banner letting them have Khorne-like frenzy. Nurgle mark is to help protect them from some of the shooting they will more than likely attract and WS 3 troops will also hit them on 5+.

  • Mark of Nurgle
  • Standard Bearer
  • Banner of Rage

5 Chaos Knights - 265 pts - Lord will be in this unit, so as not to get himself screwed by frenzy in the other unit.

  • Standard Bearer
  • Banner of Wrath

3 Chaos Ogres - 180 Pts - I love Nurgle marked, GW wielding Chaos Ogres. They can actually hit ws3 troops on a 3+. I also play OK, and these ogres are SO much better than OK Ogres.

  • Mark of Nurgle
  • Great Weapons
  • Chaos Armor

3 Chaos Ogres - 180 Pts - As above.

  • Mark of Nurgle
  • Great Weapons
  • Chaos Armor

3 Chaos Ogres - 180 Pts - As above.

  • Mark of Nurgle
  • Great Weapons
  • Chaos Armor

Total Special Points: 1090

Rare - Not much to say here. Spawns to use as tarpits for Empire blocks & detachments, or decoys for charging Bret lances. They're sacraficial. The Warshrine will probably tag along near the Warrior unit and do it's thing.

Spawn - 75 pts - Marked Khorne for harder hitting.

  • Mark of Khorne

Spawn - 75 pts - Marked Khorne for harder hitting.

  • Mark of Khorne

Chaos Warshrine - 130 pts

Total Rare Points: 280

Total List Points: 3001 - In our gaming circle, we don't mind a point or 3 over.


So. Where am I spending badly? What should I be taking instead? I'm somewhat restrcited by models, and will have to do some light proxying at this point already, but if you think I'm making a retarded play, try to convert me to your way of thinking.

Thanks!
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Bork
Warrior of the Chamber
id drop the marauders and warriors, there gonna get shot up or charged by bret knights and smashed apart (neither has the staying power/numbers to withstand the charges) and go for mobile and hard hitting, more horsemen more doggies and more knights.

id proberly get the book of secrets for your sorcerer lord to give him another power dice and another spell (lore of death is rather nice)
id also give someone the infernal puppet, with so many enemy mages on the table combined with pandemonium spell it'll cause havoc. if your going to give a spell familiar to anyone give it to your lore to (almost) ensure you get eternal gateway.

3 units of chaos ogres are too much IMO. take dragon ogres, trolls or knights if you take anything, i dont rate chaos ogres at all and especially against shooty or cav armies.

rare choices depend on what you do with your army, if you go all mobile drop the warshrine it wont keep up, if you dont then mark it with tzeentch.

same with the spawn. if you have a giant model id be taking that as a first choice.

overall i think you can slim down a tad on magic items and banners maybe, concentrate on getting in a few more units. matching the speed of the brett army and not giving the empire army 3 turns of firing before you get into charge range will proberly be your best bet.

id be very tempted with a chaos dragon in this kind of battle, keep it protected and make mincemeat out of his cannons and volly guns which will really mess up your infantry units.
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Tammil Augrimm
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The Change Chosen

Just a quick pointer, your Tzeentch caster can't join your khorne warriors as he's on a Disc. Character's on flying mounts can't join units.

I also kinda of want to know about your magic restrictions.... I know that you're limited in magic levels, but are you any way limited in anti-magic cabablility? Should the empire wizards/and or bret damsels be loaded down with anti-magic(dispel scrolls or other such nuiceneces) the effect of your magic will be minimal at best, even with your bound spells. You might be better off with taking less magic(just some defence of your own) and more fighty stuff.
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Kadrium
Slave
[ * ]
Thanks for the feedback.

Quote:
 
id drop the marauders and warriors, there gonna get shot up or charged by bret knights and smashed apart (neither has the staying power/numbers to withstand the charges) and go for mobile and hard hitting, more horsemen more doggies and more knights.


Two problems with taking more fast cav/dogs and less marauders/warriors:

1. I'm model restricted. I'm already fielding all the marauder horse I own and most of the doggies.

2. The empire player will piss and moan to no end if I go pure fast movers/cav. He's just a crybaby like that.

The list actually had 2 blocks of marauders earlier, which I trimmed down to 1. I think the warriors will be "okay" as there will be no empire cav whatsoever. I know the brets will field a lot of cavalry, but there's still going to be a large number of infantry blocks that I'll like having the warriors around to tangle with.

I will play with removing the warriors and marauders and see what else that gets me, but with my special slots tapped out, I don't know if stripping a hard hitting warrior unit out for more fast cav is going to benefit me all that much.

Quote:
 
id proberly get the book of secrets for your sorcerer lord to give him another power dice and another spell (lore of death is rather nice)
id also give someone the infernal puppet, with so many enemy mages on the table combined with pandemonium spell it'll cause havoc. if your going to give a spell familiar to anyone give it to your lore to (almost) ensure you get eternal gateway.


I missed the book of secrets, you're right about that one. I'd like to load both that and the puppet up, but I'm not sure where to free up the points on my current kit, aside from dropping dispel scrolls. Unload the rod of torment for them? Not sure how else to redistribute the goodies to fit it all in.

Quote:
 
3 units of chaos ogres are too much IMO. take dragon ogres, trolls or knights if you take anything, i dont rate chaos ogres at all and especially against shooty or cav armies.


I'd like to take the dragon ogres, but I'm not sure where I'd free the points up, aside from cutting marauders, which I'm very reluctant to do. At 51 points more expensive per unit of 3, are they worth that much? I have had excellent results from nurgle marked GW wielding Chaos Ogres. I'm used to working with Ogres as an Ogre Kingdoms player as well, so I get a lot out of them.

Quote:
 
rare choices depend on what you do with your army, if you go all mobile drop the warshrine it wont keep up, if you dont then mark it with tzeentch.


Warshrine is more or less to be a tag-along for the warriors unit. I know it wouldn't keep up with knights or really even ogres very well. I'm very reluctant to unload the block of warriors and block of marauders, as I don't want to play too much of a WAAC, unfriendly list with my friends. I will try some variations without them, and see if I like it, but I don't know that I want to make that mean of a list.

Quote:
 
same with the spawn. if you have a giant model id be taking that as a first choice.


I do have a giant model, but the greenskin player is using it to take a giant in HIS list. Which is basically the same as me taking it. I might consider dumping the shrine for another spawn, or just removing it all together to pay for upgrading a chaos ogre unit into dragon ogres.

Quote:
 
overall i think you can slim down a tad on magic items and banners maybe, concentrate on getting in a few more units. matching the speed of the brett army and not giving the empire army 3 turns of firing before you get into charge range will proberly be your best bet.


I know I do have a lot of banners and magic items, but I'm not sure what is disposable at this point. I think the runeshield and the aetherblade on the lord are going to be worth the points. There's going to be a truckload of characters on the table for him to challenge, and ignoring all that field plate and bret armor, as well as neutering some of the magic weapons he's going to run into sound pretty appealing to me. Also, since I'm more or less capped on special slots, and my only option on rares is more spawns, what would I get beyond what I have?

Quote:
 
id be very tempted with a chaos dragon in this kind of battle, keep it protected and make mincemeat out of his cannons and volly guns which will really mess up your infantry units.


Would love to, and if I had the model I would. We don't mind some light proxying, but I'm not going so far as to proxy a whole dragon.

I'm not shooting down your ideas out of hand, and I'll write some list alternates with them in mind to see if I like them, I'm just trying to look at this from all angles. I'm also trying to write a robust list that isn't abusive, so I can have a nice big friendly game with my friends.

Quote:
 
Just a quick pointer, your Tzeentch caster can't join your khorne warriors as he's on a Disc.  Character's on flying mounts can't join units.


Totally forgot that, thank you. I don't play with flyers very often.

Quote:
 
I also kinda of want to know about your magic restrictions....  I know that you're limited in magic levels, but are you any way limited in anti-magic cabablility?  Should the empire wizards/and or bret damsels be loaded down with anti-magic(dispel scrolls or other such nuiceneces) the effect of your magic will be minimal at best, even with your bound spells.  You might be better off with taking less magic(just some defence of your own) and more fighty stuff.


No hard limits as such. I know the empire player is only bringing 1 or 2 dispel scrolls. The Bret player is only taking 2 damsels, though I would assume they're maxed out on scrolls since their other options are pretty limp. My team will have two Level 4 casters and two Level 2 casters against 5 or 6 dispel scrolls tops. The only thing I'm miffed about is how much the Empire list cheesed around the magic level limit with the lector and warpriest.
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