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Which list to choose against DE?; Magic or combat?
Topic Started: May 7 2010, 10:17 PM (441 Views)
Darth Urbrambus
Member Avatar
The Chosen
I'll be playing against a friend's DE for 2000 points and I would like your opinion on which list to use.

He has finished painting his hydra, so he'll be using that. Furthermore, he has 2 RBT, x-bows, spearmen, BG, CO knights, a hero with that reversed ward save thing, an assassin, and some sorceresses. And harpies :)

Here are my lists:

Magic List:

CORE

5 Horsemen: MoS – flail – mus
5 Horsemen: MoS – flail – mus
3 x 5 Hounds

SPECIAL

5 Knights: MoK
4 Dragon Ogres: add hand weapon
Chariot: MoS

CHARACTERS

Hero: MoK – flail – shield – juggernaut
Sorc: lvl 1 – lore of fire – dispel scroll – Book of secrets – chaos steed
Sorc Lord: lvl 4 – lore of fire – dispel scroll – skull of katam – GEoT - dragon

I took fire for all the S4 spells you can cast against T3 opponents.

A variation on this magic list would be without the dragon but with an additional 5 Knights of Khorne, GW on the Dragon Ogres, 5 Hounds and a different set-up for the hero and lvl 1 wizard.

Combat List:

CORE

5 Horsemen: MoS – flail – mus
5 Horsemen: MoS – flail – mus
2 x 7 Hounds

SPECIAL

2 x 5 Knights: MoK
4 Dragon Ogres: GW
Chariot: MoS

CHARACTERS

Hero: MoK – flail – shield – chaos steed
Sorc: lvl 1 – lore of fire – 2 dispel scrolls – chaos steed
Sorc: lvl 1 – lore of fire – power fam – book of secrets – chaos steed
Chaos Lord: MoK – enchanted shield – hellfire sword – juggernaut
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Godless-Mimicry
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No' 9

The problem here is the only real change from one list to the other is the characters but in both cases the character set-ups aren't great.

In the first, if you are having a Dragon Mark of Nurgle and Collar of Khorne are a must, especially when you know he has RBTs and possibly a Rending Star Assassin. Also don't waste half your item points of the Skull of Katam and concentrate on what you really need the Dragon to do; survive and eat up the soft stuff.

In the second, again there are redundant points. Why are you forking out for medium magic? In normal circumstances medium magic can't dent most armies, and heavy magic struggles with Dark Elves, so what makes you think medium magic can hurt Dark Elves? Also Hellfire Sword is attrocious, and in general you shouldn't be tooling up a 350+pt Lord just to take out a 175pt Hydra.

In both lists, the Khorne Exalted fills no purpose that another unit couldn't do better.
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Skyldig
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Exalted Guardian
I agree in principle with Godless, however, while Mark of Nurgle is the best mark on a dragon, it is of dubious value on a sorcerer lord.

I would go Tzeentch or Slaanesh instead.



Your best bet against dark elves is probably a disc exalted, and a few sorcerers. You can try gateway, but it is probably not worth it. Instead, I would use lots of buboes, flickering fires, banner of wrath, book of secrets and rod of torment. 3 Sorcerers could visit hell on the lightly armed dark elves (and they almost circumvent the ring of hotek), while the disc exalted (with the eye) hunts down RBT's, then go for light cavalry or crossbow lines.

If you don't own a disc model, I recommend the juggernaut exalted with a shield, bsb, glaive and the zhraak armour to deal with the inevitable hydra so you're not totally dependent on magic. With 8 S5 attacks, that model is also pretty good to go against black guard (with immunity to killing blow from the assassin) or any other unit. Just screen him bloody well.
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Kraytirous
Exalted Guardian
One thing I'm surprised no one noticed, you're short one Core choice for the minimum of 3, as Warhounds do not count towards minimum core.
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Godless-Mimicry
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No' 9

Kraytirous
May 8 2010, 10:09 AM
One thing I'm surprised no one noticed, you're short one Core choice for the minimum of 3, as Warhounds do not count towards minimum core.

You're right, I'm surprised I didn't notice :)
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chiram
The Chosen
yeah why don't you use some warriors or chosen in your list? there is almost nothing De can throw at it ( when it comes to core and even most special ) that can kill em in 1 turn. plus chosen champion with book of secret = more magic and if ya put a sorcerer in it with skull maybe bsb with blasted standerd and give em mark of tzeentch ( if taking chosen ) you have a group of infantry men with a 4+ Wsv against shooting , a nice Asv and a +2 to cast so flaming sword of rhuin ( or something ) is almost a certain go and then you have an IMBA unit
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Kraytirous
Exalted Guardian
Sadly, not that imba. A hydra to the flank and hydra banner cold one knights to the front will, sadly, deal that unit in.

Against dark elves Disk Exalteds and Lords on Dragons are the way to go in my opinion. Magic heavy is not a very intelligent route, as the Ring of Hotek is far too powerful an item to risk going up against. Avoid challenges and wreck his basic infantry. Slam a Lord on Dragon into the flank of some cold one knights alone and watch them disappear before him, while his poor character sits and weeps as his body guard is annihilated.

Throw a pair of Exalteds on disks into his repeater bolt throwers, one with the armor of morrslieb and the other with the golden eye of tzeentch. Throw them each a shield and halberd (you don't even need the halberd, as str 5 is ample for killing elves).

Keep your Lord on Dragon relatively cheap. A combo that works well for the guy is mark of nurgle and bronze armor (the armor's immune to poison completely screws up assassins). Collar of khorne in case he tries spamming some low-level magic. That's all you really need, along with a flail or a halberd to further bring down the armor save of anything that you fight. You want to use your Chosen/Warriors as anvils and your flying heroes as hammers, along with a unit or two of knights.
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chiram
The Chosen
well to be honest i've played against lots of DE players on tournaments and if i put that unit of chosen on accompagnied by a hellcannon and some units of warriors in the front ( if 2000 even a warshrine ) and every time ( about 17 matches that involved a hydra ) the wretched creature was dead after 1 round of combat. broken or basicly killed that is.
then use some marauder horsemen and some knights for a flank and wit a lord on a juggy shielded by dogs you find and challenge enemy characters with ease. if you are afraid to lose your juggy by shooting put it in a unit of knights or something. knights with mark of nurgle and maybe banner of rage.

yes they are frenzy but once again if shielded correctly then it shouldn't be a problem. cause there is nothing left in most DE armies ( if chosen and warriors tangle their front ) that could posibly pose a serious threth to the knights.
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Godless-Mimicry
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No' 9

chiram
May 9 2010, 08:55 PM
well to be honest i've played against lots of DE players on tournaments and if i put that unit of chosen on accompagnied by a hellcannon and some units of warriors in the front ( if 2000 even a warshrine ) and every time ( about 17 matches that involved a hydra ) the wretched creature was dead after 1 round of combat. broken or basicly killed that is.

All that shows is that you faced terrible opponents who had the tactical know-all of a slug; no good player would charge a Hydra into a block of Chosen or Chaos Warriors unsupported. Furthermore a good player wouldn't charge anything into those blocks until he had killed everything else while those slow blocks sludged across the battlefield only to find the enemy was behind them.
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Darth Urbrambus
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The Chosen
Thanks for all the remarks and comments, much appreciated :)

After reading the various posts, I came up with a new list.

CORE

5 Horsemen: MoS – flail – mus
5 Horsemen: MoS – flail – mus
10 Warriors: MoS – shields – halberds – SB – banner of wrath
3 x 5 Hounds

SPECIAL

6 Knights: MoK
4 Dragon Ogres: add hand weapon
Chariot: MoS

CHARACTERS

Exalted: MoT – flail – GEoT – armour of Zhrakk – disc
Sorc: Tzeentch – lvl 2 – Book of secrets – dispel scroll - disc
Sorc: Tzeentch – lvl 2 – Power fam – dispel scroll - disc
Sorc: Nurgle – lvl 2 – Rod of Torment - chaos steed (goes with the warriors)

A total of 10 PD + 2 magic missiles and 5 DD with 2 scrolls. The total points is slightly over 2000.
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chiram
The Chosen
Godless-Mimicry
May 10 2010, 06:45 AM
chiram
May 9 2010, 08:55 PM
well to be honest i've played against lots of DE players on tournaments and if i put that unit of chosen on  accompagnied by a hellcannon and some units of warriors in the front  ( if 2000 even a warshrine ) and every time ( about 17 matches that involved a hydra ) the wretched creature was dead after 1 round of combat. broken or basicly killed that is.

All that shows is that you faced terrible opponents who had the tactical know-all of a slug; no good player would charge a Hydra into a block of Chosen or Chaos Warriors unsupported. Furthermore a good player wouldn't charge anything into those blocks until he had killed everything else while those slow blocks sludged across the battlefield only to find the enemy was behind them.

well one of em had a title in the ranking of the netherlands was somewhere in the top 30 of belgium and netherland.
basicly i let them try to kill stuff off but a hellcannon that rampages in turn 1-2 is a very big dumper on anyone's battleplan.
and spamming flickering fire on a 3+ wit a -1 Ld on panic or a direct hellcanon hit at a -2Ld really helps about 45% of his forces where fleeing in turn 2 with his general whiped out cause of spells and centre of hellcannon hit on him
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Darkbladesoul
Warrior of the Chamber
What about the other 16 matches :P
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