Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Chamber of the Everchosen. We hope you enjoy your visit!


Here at COTEC we are all about the Warriors of Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

Tactics to help you slaughter your opponent on the tabletop, through to galleries on how to build your next Warshrine. Its all covered... and growing!

We are a forum for gamers and hobbyist alike and again would like to welcome you to a fun, friendly, warm place and hope to see you again!


Join our legion! Takes less than a minute and gives you access to everything!


If you're already a member please log in to your account by entering the correct runes and words of power:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
8th Edition Tzeentch Led list
Topic Started: Jun 16 2010, 12:34 AM (935 Views)
kerill
Exalted Guardian
Getting quite excited about 8th edition now, especially with the new combinations that are possible and the changes to the usefulness of some of the troops on the WOC roster.

I'll be keeping the same fluff and army core:


http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190660

But fiddling around with a lot of things. Questions and comments are really really welcome.


Mindwarper Sorceror lord of Tzeentch, level 4, bloodskull amulet, spell familiar, enchanted shield (if now 5 points, otherwise the shield of discount first hit on a 2+), collar of Khorne (might swap it out for the 5+ ward save amulet instead, still undecided although with magic now a lot nastier that 4+ ward save against magic may well be needed), conjoined homunculus 400 points

Almost no change here although I've added in the homunculus since stupidity will be a lot less worrying now. The change in the hw+sh bonus means he will be less well proected now though than he was before so might need to boost the ward save. It depends on how dangerous magic gets (at the minute the unit has a 4+ ward against magic) and whther or not it can be used against the new miscasts.



Leads the chosen guard:

15 Warriors of Tzeentch, shields, FC: banner of discipline (15 points, +1Ld) 305 points

This is the rock centre of the army with 3+ save a 5+ ward save. 4 ranks should be enough to stay stubborn, Ld9 with re-rolls for psychology should b solid enough. Previously was mark of slaanesh but now fear autobreak is gone its less of a worry. Hopefully this also boosts the generals Ld to 9 since he is with the unit meaning stupidity tests re-rolled on a 9. They can grind down low T/armour save opponents well while taking few casualties whilst the bloodskull amulet can smack the nastier stuff.

Wrackspew Level 1 Sorceror of nurgle, barded steed, puppet, shield of 2+ ignore first hit and stone of good luck (re-roll failed save once).

186 points

Goes with the main warrior unit most of the time. Used to be level 2 and on a chariot but now a US5 chariot is less useful and level 2 isn't worth the 35 points when buboes is the spell I'm after. Will have to see the new war machine rules and allocation of stonethrower hits before I decide whether or not to put him on a chariot. The extra 2D6 hits in combat from the stream of corruption should be nice. Also with -1Ws against him, 1+ save and one save re-roll he can hopefully also soak up attacks and challenges if need be.

Exalted, barded steed, shield, flail,bsb, book of secrets, power familiar
210 points

Not been using an exalted since my disk one kept dying but with the re-rolls for stupidity and stubborn I reckon he will be pretty useful. Apart from psychology he is there as a power dice battery for the two mages, mindwarper in particular. Not sure how to fit him into the fluff though.

27 Khorne marauders, FC, GW
185 points

Led by the exalted since he can pop a few high S hits at things that need it. I expect this unit to get shot to shreds a fair bit. Not sure whether to run them 5 or 6 wide-probably 6 wide unless the opponent has a lot of shooting. scary but cheap



6 Trolls in 2 ranks of 3

270 points

Want to test this one out, with the general and bsb within 12" the chance of failing stupidity test is only 2.8% due to Ld9 and the re-roll and 6 trolls is a scary unit. The rank bonus will hardly last but even without it they are a hard unit to face with anything. If charged by 5 Khorne kngihts for example they will suffer 3.3 wounds from knights, 0.625 from the steeds. 5 Vomit attacks back is 3.3 dead knights and another .66 for the stomp attacks. Trolls are also cheaper and tougher than ogres kitted out. They should only really have trouble against blocks of elite infantry. And with Ld9 and break re-roll they should be able to stick out a combat when the dice gods are unkind. 5/6 Vomit attacks is also fairly scary for most dragon or monster riders. *

5 warhounds *3
90 points

Not needed as a frenzy screen so much any more and may not be able to screen either (although 5 wide never was enough to screen them anyway) but cheap redirectors and deployables are always useful.

5 Chaos Knights of Khorne
230 points


Prime magnet for shooting and magic attention my chaos knights tend to serve as a distraction rather than a hammer. Still if left alone, even with the loss of frenzy for steeds and stubborn for infantry they are a world class meat grinder and the new removal of US bonus in combat means they are just as likely to win combats as before.

Hellcannon
205 points


Usually an unbreakable guard for the flank of my chosen guard, the hellcannon will now be even better with its D6 stomp attacks and might even be able to win some combats. If the hellcannon retains its S5/10 with the new stone thrower targetting rules it will be pretty nasty at range as well. Terror is also arguably more powerful now


Total points: 2081

Remaining points: 169 can probably squeeze it as far as 200 free points.

Not sure what to do with the remaining points. Current options I've thought of are:
1) Bull Rhinox rider with heavy armour (151 points). T5, 5 wounds and a 3+ save and (presumably) D6 stomp attacks for the bull rhinox. Definitely would be a very strong option and I have a converted model for it (2 warriors o a palanquin on the back of a big spawn). Sadly I suspect the errata documents won't mention the rhinox riders so my group may not allow the D6 stomp attacks.
2) A second hellcannon (depending on what the errata turns up)
3) 5 forsaken and 5 DOW cavalry- now that forests no longer seem to slow units down forsaken are an ideal unit for sending through them and also protects them from shooting. DOW cavalry are pretty handy for running into the face of missile troops. Probably less effective in 8th edition since they can no longer flank effectively.
4) 2 Single maneaters with braces of handguns- not bad at taking potshots, since they almost always hit on 3+ even when moving not sure how long 3 wounds and a 5+ save will last in 8th edition but otherwise they are like multitasking spawn where you always know how fast they are going to go.
5) 4 Ogres with GW and chaos armour
6) A second unit of around 20 khorne marauders with GW and FC
7) 2 Smaller units of 15 marauders with flails
8) Boost nurgle mage to level 2 and a warshrine. Not tried one yet since I thought they were pretty crap under 7th edition, but under 8th edition they might be a lot more worthwhile for several reasons:
i) No more fear autobreak
ii) No more outnumber bonus for the opponent so it will basically lose combat by 1 less CR.
iii) D6 stomp attacks (fights as a monster) means the shrine hopefullynow has 8.5 attacks instead of 5 mens they can put out a few wounds of damage meaning there is a chance of holding against things.
iv) In my new list the bsb and maybe Ld9 for the general makes it a lot more likely it can actually hold things up.
v) I can easily swap out the stone of good luck on the nurgle sorceror for gift of chaos.

So I'm up for suggestions for which option from 1-8 you think would be best. At the minute 1,2 and 8 seem to be the most appealing.

Models in army: 74+ whatever models I add from the extra points I have
Av. Power dice: 9.5 (the .5 from 3 channellers)
+4 to dispel spells
8 deployment drops

Spells to cast:
Buboes, 2 dice
Flickering fire, 2 dice (maybe 1, depends on whether homunculus can be used to avoid rolling 1 or 2 and being unable to cast further spells.
Infernal Gateway 3 dice (with homunculus there is a 82.4% chance of success.
If homunculus not used yet:
Treason of Tzeentch- 1 die (66% chance/89% with homunculus)
Pandemonium/call to glory- 1/2 dice.

Call to glory might even be useful now with +5 to cast and RIP spells no longer preventing you from casting

So 4 or five spells per turn on average. When the power supply is above average then there is still the book of secrets spell to cast- looking at shadow as the best choice here if the nurgle sorceror gets curse of the leper since curse of leper+ 2nd or 3rd shadow spell= instant death for almost any unit in the game, even if the lore special is crap. Also base spell (and choosing initiative) would be nasty with cloying quagmire.

Otherwise death also looks good since the default spell is good and there are a few character sniping spells there. Spell 3+ curse of the leper could also be instant death.

Army setup willprobably be fairly straightforward:

Army centre:

Marauders Trolls Warriors Hellcannon

With hounds being anywhere and knights on one flank. And final element from spare points also going almost anywhere (although within 12" of general's unit if warshrine.

So thats the list and rational so far let me know what you think.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kormak
Member Avatar
High Executioner of Khorne
kerill
Jun 15 2010, 04:34 PM
Getting quite excited about 8th edition now, especially with the new combinations that are possible and the changes to the usefulness of some of the troops on the WOC roster.


I think on of the things i like best about 8th ed is the fact we can actually have a bloody proper wardsave!


Quote:
 
Mindwarper Sorceror lord of Tzeentch, level 4, bloodskull amulet, spell familiar, enchanted shield (if now 5 points, otherwise the shield of discount first hit on a 2+), collar of Khorne (might swap it out for the 5+ ward save amulet instead, still undecided although with magic now a lot nastier that 4+ ward save against magic may well be needed), conjoined homunculus


I like him, considering you actually have some magic however i think i would be tempted to swap collar of Khorne for the 5+ wardsave amulet as you suggested. Of course the other route you could take is to make him more of a caster and give him Book of Ashur so he is getting +6 to all his spells and +1 to all his dispels and then slap that 5+ smulet on

Quote:
 
17 Warriors of Tzeentch, shields, FC: banner of discipline (15 points, +1Ld)


I would be tempted by halberds, banner is good, i had actually had the same thought myself


Quote:
 
Wrackspew Level 1 Sorceror of nurgle, barded steed, puppet, shield of 2+ ignore first hit and stone of good luck (re-roll failed save once).


Fair rnough, i would maube be tempted by a dragon helm actually.


Quote:
 
Exalted, barded steed, shield, flail,bsb, book of secrets, power familiar


Seems solid enough



Quote:
 
28 Khorne marauders, FC, GW


6 Trolls in 2 ranks of 3

5 warhounds *3



5 Chaos Knights of Khorne

Hellcannon

Total points: 2086


all seems fine mate, good choices overall, not my choice of army but then again im a khorne player at haeart, below is the option you are looking for i think

Quote:
 
5) 4 Ogres with GW and chaos armour
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kerill
Exalted Guardian
Thanks for the reply mate. Halberds for the warriors may be the better bet in 8th, not sure yet but since apparently the new rule is if you have weapon X you must use it rather than a shield I'll leave them as they are for now.

I think I will try both ogres and warshrine (if it gets stomp attacks), ogres first since I bought a whole ogre army on ebay last year, and my parents will be bringing it over with them to China in a couple of months.

The ward save thing is indeed tremendous, I never agreed with the logic that its much better on a high T model- that model is also worth more VPs when it dies and being smacked by a dragon or cannon is about the same for an empire general as it is for a chaos lord. It should make riding beasties a lot more viable- maybe the manticore might even see a bit of use now.

I just realised a third defensive option for my Lord- the dawnstone (re-roll all armour saves) that would give him a re-rollable 2+ save and a 5+ ward save, not too shabby. Will have to see how devastating magic is first.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kormak
Member Avatar
High Executioner of Khorne
You did notice you can have a 3+ wardsave for 45pts right :P whats more defensive than that!

The reason whyi say ogres is fear, this is going to be a great defensive weapon, i mean personally i would have ogres and warshrine but i have a very differnt style of army to you :P

I think halberds with I5 are going to be nuts, i mean even with tzeentch warriors thats 6x3 thats 18 WS S5 I5 attacks generally striking first! In some ways i would be very tempted by blasted standard on you generals unit, its going to attract alot of attention, i mean even if you had a MR1 item on your general thats a 3+ wardsave against all direct damage spells! nice and decent protection from shooting.

I dont know if leadership is actually as important for chaos with reroll panic tests or the fact you have a BSB.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kerill
Exalted Guardian
Sadly I can't quite fit the 4+ ward on the general since bloodskull amulet is mandatory for him in my eyes and spell familiar is needed to ensure enough good spells. Then he's only got 40 points left. I might well go for a disk riding sorceror again if I make a new army from the fluff perspective- especially with the new lose of control chart making casting from a unit very dangerous. Then he'll have the 3+ ward and a 1+ save. In many ways my unit is still a bit 7th edition since stepping up means warriors can actually kill more. I'll have to have a think about it and post an alternative list.

Blasted standard sadly works in shooting phase only, not against magic missiles and the like, unlike the VC one.

I think the Ld standard is mainly because I have the trolls and conjoined homunculus, otherwise I wouldn't bother. Its also very cheap ;) I really think the troll unit is very nasty indeed, although from re-reading the WOC book I don't think they can do a whole unit vomit- unless it gets FAQ's/Errated/its in the new book.

Good point about MR though, I hadn't spotted that it adds on rather than replaces a ward save. Makes sense though since some things give both against magic.

I've shaved enough points to fit in the 4 ogres so the list is complete. Dropped the stream of corruption, a marauder ad the marauder champion. It also occurred to me that for units that don't have characters that need protecting with step up you really don't want a champion for facing big nasties if the challenge rules are the same since it allows them to avoid a shedload of damage from step up. Though this is relevant to your list since your warrior and marauder units have FC atm and in 8th I'm not sure we need the champions like before- they are unlikely to net the VPs for killing a character in a challenge.

Also where are you running Kormak in your list? If he is with the knights I can see him being cannon sniped first turn since cannons no longer have to fire before other ranged weapons so anyone with cannons only needs to kill one knight with xbows/handguns and then there is no look out sir. Dropping a couple of champions might get you some points to boost your knights a bit.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kormak
Member Avatar
High Executioner of Khorne
You know you have upset me with the news of the blastered standard :( i might have to have a rethink of a few things now :(

I can see why you used the +1 leadership banner however with a BSB giving you a reroll on all leadership tests i cant see you failing many leadership tests at leadership 8.

I also those warriors would look nice with a slight beefing up ;) units of 15 are not taking advantage of the new rules really, 18 men, 6x3, you know you want to ;)

Also another rumour which i think will cause alot of problems (from someone who has actuallyed played and read 8th ed).

Quote:
 
Played the new game on Tuesday. Most, if not all, of the rumours are true.

A few things thats I noted though.
Fireball. All attacks are str4. This does not go up with the higer level of casting. Only the hits do.
Bound Items. You do not add the bound level. Thats the 'casting value'


Another thing. Apparently if you buy your unit a weapon (ie buying chaos warriors a halberd) they can no longer use the hand weapon. They must use the upgraded weapon. This makes buying units shields as well pretty pointless as it will only work Vs Shooting.


Hmm, now its time to revise my list again :(
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dracos
The Chosen
I disagree with the shield commentary. Even if it only saves 1 Warrior the shield option is worth it. If it saves 2 then it's genius . . . sorta :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kerill
Exalted Guardian
Dracos
Jun 18 2010, 09:32 AM
I disagree with the shield commentary. Even if it only saves 1 Warrior the shield option is worth it. If it saves 2 then it's genius . . . sorta :)

Agreed, its a shame to lose the option of hw+sh though.

Anyway went away and re-thought my list in light of some of the other things that have been mentioned/confirmed by people with the new rulebook, here is the new list:

Mindwarper, Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch, bloodskull amulet, enchanted shield, collar of Khorne, power familiar, conjoined homunculus 410

It seems one of the new rules for choosing magic is that any double allows you to choose whatever spell you want. Gateway is obviously the key spell here and the chance of not rolling a double on 4 dice is 28%. The chance of not rolling a 6 on 4 dice is 48.22% which means the chance of getting gateway is 87% by my reckoning- even better chance than my setup in 7th with spell familiar. This means I can put the power familiar on mindwarper and drop the nurgle sorcerer from the list. 2+ save, 5+ ward (not great sadly but I can't fit in the 5+ ward save amulet with the other items) and a 4+ ward save against magic for the whole unit.

Exalted hero of Tzeentch, bsb, shield, book of secrets, dragon helm, stone of good luck, third eye of tzeentch 215

Defensive minded exalted. Third eye of Tzeentch means I can choose to get my opponents best spells if I want and being Tzeentch still have +2 to cast which isn’t bad. 2+ save (can be re-rolled once) and 5+ ward due to hw+sh bonus. Spirit leech can replace buboes for character sniping, especially with the boost to Ld9 that the banner gives him. With pandemonium added in it could be very nasty indeed and bsbs will likely be the number one target.

Characters: 625 (just keeps getting lower)

Both of these will join the anvil unit:

Chosen Guard: 14 Warriors of Tzeentch, shields, fc: banner of +1Ld 289

3+ save, 5+ ward. Run them 5 wide. With the characters they can kill 8 standard infantry per turn or 4 heavy cavalry. Respectable enough but the main purpose of the unit is to be an anchor that can repel almost anything in the game. Would be nice to boost them to 18 for 5*4 but can't find the points

18 warriors of Tzeentch, halberds, shields, musician, standard: banner of rage 379

Straightforward killing unit of warriors. No champions so that all attacks can be brought to bear against big beasties ridden by cheeky oiks. They can put about 2 wounds per turn on a dragon or stegadon and chew through 12 or more standard infantry each combat phase. Even with thunderous stomp most monsters will be testing to break every turn.

29 Khorne Marauders, flails, standard, musician 187

Again nothing subtle here- cheap and nasty combat unit. Still not sure whether to go for GW or flails. If I free up points to make the unit larger I would probably go for GW, but will keep the flails for now.

5 warhounds *3 90

- I’d take 4 units if I had the models

6 Trolls 270

Re-rolling stupidity tests on LD 9 means they are now fairly reliable. They have good saves, get better as they get hurt and 18S5 attacks and 3 autohitting attacks is a world of hurt. If the opponent ever fails their fear test (not going to happen much if there is a bsb about)

Hellcannon 205 points

Hellcannon 205

Total Points: 2250
Models: 88
PD (average) 9.33
DD (average) 3.88, no scrolls but 4+ ward for main unit.

The warrior units, trolls and hellcannons will form the main army since they mutually support one another. The marauders and hounds are the "spare" elements.


I think hellcannons have been given several buffs in 8th edition and are now actually a good choice first of all for shooting:

i) No guessing ranges means they are a lot more accurate (especially for me).
ii) No partials means a lot more hits. Twenty one models on a 20mm base (17 kills if T3 and armour save 5+ or worse) or sixteen on 25mm base (13 kills), five on cavalry bases (2 kills on 1+ save T3 cavalry).

Second in combat:

iii) There is no outnumber anymore which means opposing units no longer have the +1CR over the hellcannon the traditionally had.
iv) They now get D6 extra stomp attacks meaning they can potentially kill enough to win the occasional combat instead of just being a tarpit all the time. Theoryhammering the hellcannon and crew can kill 6 Ws3 or lower crap infantry or 1.7 T3 1+ save knights.
v) The crew can no longer be targeted for easy CR and no longer offer up half VPs.
vi) Terror tests now function as quasi break tests which will be handy for breaking through lines, especially if pandemonium goes off.
vii) The cannon itself now has sort of three bonus wounds in the form of the crewmembers.

Finally in general:

viii) With the bsb allowing re-rolls of Ld tests rampage is now going to be passed a lot more often meaning they are more easily controlled.
ix) In 8th huge units of dross troops (slaves, goblins, zombies etc.) can potentially tarpit even super elite units like warriors for a long time for far fewer points. Having something that can kill a mass of them before combat starts is very useful to ensure they break.
x) Despite claims of infantry hammer I think in many ways big beasties have actually got more threatening, especially to elites. An extra 3.5 auto hitting S6-8 hits hurts a lot and having something S10 causing D6 wounds is nice, even if it only helps restrict their movement. A dragon for example will kill 6 Halberd wielding chaos warriors per turn and the rider probably 1 more and 1 or 2 more with its breath attack.. If its at full health it will eat the whole unit. If it has lost a couple of wounds it can’t risk a frontal charge.
xi) Two hellcannons actually constitutes a half-decent shooting phase with the new template rules (rather than a novelty) and combined with strong magic means your army doesn’t have to belt across the table full pelt every time, more tactical options- which Tzeentch likes.
xii) I asked someone on the warhammer.org with the books and they said that the monsters and handlers rule now says
“The M&H rule says Handlers are "generally ignored", their exact position is irrelevant (they are moved out of the way if they block movement or LoS) and that the monster is the "extent of the unit".It doesn't specifically mention movement though.”
Not trying to rules lawyer here but the monster being the extent of the unit seems to suggest that the hellcannon can now move at M6. Not as important with the new random charge distances but if it works out that way it will be very nice since it means the hellcannon can shoot one turn and still catch up with the infantry the next turn.
xiii) Small buff in that large targets are no longer +1 for shooting so the hellcannon is now a little bit more resilient to shooting- bolt throwers in particular.

There are two new downsides though:

i) Step up and support attacks mean the hellcannon is going to get hit and maybe wounded more in combat, especially by poisoned attacks and GW (which will be more popular).
ii) The miscast table now is so nasty that if you misfire and roll that result its going to seriously hurt any unit the mage is with- and chaos warriors cost a lot more than empire swordsmen.
iii) There is still the possibility that the hellcannon will be errated back down to S3 :(

Strangely the new miscast table is now so serious that I'm not so desperate to take the puppet any more- when there are no good options and everything is pretty bad it seems besides the point. I never plan to throw more than 3 dice at a spell now anyway so hopefully they will be less common.

For some of these reasons I think the warshrine has also got a lot better and there is also the added bonus for the warshrine that bigger units mean more models affected and step up and support attacks mean the bonus is now actually more important whether defensive or offensive.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
null_sheen
Warrior of the Chamber
You need more core to make the minimum 25%
Or you are banking heavily that the warhound rule not counting as minimum core will be erratered out

So you are looking at the marauder options
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kerill
Exalted Guardian
null_sheen
Jun 23 2010, 07:43 PM
You need more core to make the minimum 25%
Or you are banking heavily that the warhound rule not counting as minimum core will be erratered out

So you are looking at the marauder options

The chosen guard is the name of the unit, they aren't actually chosen so I've got 950 points in core.

Still fiddling with the list though and waiting for more rumours to come in.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kerill
Exalted Guardian
Anyway, looked over the list again and decided the last list is far too boring and static to be fun for long, so a new list again, this time with a more mobile element for flanking and war machine/shooter hunting:

Mindwarper, Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch, level 4, DISK, power familiar, 4+ ward talisman (so 3+ ward), enchanted shield (1+ save), conjoined homunculus, stream of corruption, stone of good luck 430 points

Exalted of Tzeentch, bsb, golden eye, book of secrets, DISK, shield 220 points

- So no super bunker anymore, both will be free roving.

18 Chaos Warriors, halberds, shields, standard, musician: banner of rage
- The centre of the main battleline

30 Khorne Marauders, GW, Standard, musician 6 wide, 5 deep
30 Khorne Marauders, GW, Standard, musician 6 wide, 5 deep

- The other 2 infantry units in the main battle line.
3*5 chaos hounds

5 Marauder horsemen, flail, musician 86 points
6 Trolls

Hellcannon

Hellcannon

So solid three infantry units and one or two hellcannons for the main battle line. Weaker than before since I've traded warriors for marauders.

Faster flanking force consisting of the two disk riders, trolls, marauder horsemen, one or two units of hounds and maybe a hellcannon.

Hounds in first row of the flanking force to grant cover save to the marauder horsemen and trolls against shooting. The horsemen allow both the disk riders a 4+ LOS roll if within 3" untin they take casualty (so a bit of extra defence against first turn cannon sniping at least. The trolls can also provide a measure of protection against cannons since they have a good chance to stop the cannon ball in 8th edition. With the 4+ ward and 33% of only taking 1/2 wounds a healthy troll has a 67% chance of stopping a cannon ball and two ranks 89%, after that both characters have a 1+ save and 3+ ward against shooting. So fairly well protected and miscasting will no longer nuke a bunch of warriors.

General's leadership dropped back to 8 but trolls should still be fine and the trolls are going to reduce the mobility of the disk riders early game. Still both riders can now easily take out war machine crews or 2 rank missile units since there is no outnumber anymore, there is +1 CR for getting a charge and there is an extra S3 stomp from the disk (allegedly, not sure about this since they are apparently cavalry not monstrous cavalry). Whatever horsemen and hounds survive (generally very few in my games) can also harass and go for war machines. Hopefully I4 will have them striking first against quite a few armies.

If units do get bigger in 8th edition then hopefully flanking forces will find it easier to get around a flank.

Again the list can be offensive or defensive depending on the opponent due to solid magic and the two hellcannons, the latter can be shooty or fighty depending on the situation.

Models: 110
PD: 9.333 average
DD: 5.33 average
Lord: 430 (19%)
Heroes: 220 (9%)
Core:919 (40%)
Special: 270 (12%)
Rare: 410 (18%)




Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JRGumby
The Chosen
Glad you cut the Bloodskull: if you remove from the rear like I've heard you do killing every touching model isn't a good defense anymore. Otherwise I rather like your hero setup, but how well do you think your magic phase will function with only one level 4? I know you're essentially just trying to get one spell off, but do you think you can push it through effectively with the new dispel mechanics without blowing up?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kerill
Exalted Guardian
JRGumby
Jun 24 2010, 09:31 AM
Glad you cut the Bloodskull: if you remove from the rear like I've heard you do killing every touching model isn't a good defense anymore. Otherwise I rather like your hero setup, but how well do you think your magic phase will function with only one level 4? I know you're essentially just trying to get one spell off, but do you think you can push it through effectively with the new dispel mechanics without blowing up?

Its a bit of a shame since I was sort of the first person to post the combo so thought of it as "mine". But with step up and a worse armour save than 7th edition it is a bit more dangerous to be in a unit.

At the minute I have a level 4 and a level 1 (due to the book of secrets).

I plan to only ever use 3 dice for gateway to reduce chance of miscast.

The remaining dice will tend to go towards:

Death lore, base spell (or 3rd spell)- 2 dice
Treason/Pandemonium - 2dice
Flickering- 1/2 dice
Call to glory- probably never cast it, never have up to now.
Baleful- 1/2 dice (probably at war machines).

Worst cast scenario is no pandemonium and no gateway in which case:
Treason 2 dice
Baleful 2 dice
Flickering 2 Dice
Spell from lore of death- 2 dice
1 die wasted.

Ideal is with gateway and pandemonium:
Gateway 3 dice
Pandemonium 2 Dice
Treason 2 Dice
Flickering 1

Death lore: 1 die

The only problem is if I end up with 12 dice on the random roll- what to do with them. The bsb had third eye for this eventuality but I had to drop it to fit other things in, I might try and squeeze it back in again.

I've fiddled with adding a 3rd sorceror (Nurgle) partly for buboes, partly for a defensive scroll of some kind but the 130-150 points means a unit has to be removed and maybe another cut down. I used to run the nurgle boys on chariots but chariots don't seem as useful now and I'd have to forego an infantry unit.

I also may well replace the marauder horsemen with DOW barded heavy cavalry so I can throw them at missile troops and have something left after my opponents first turn.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kerill
Exalted Guardian
Ok, list is now getting close to final version:


Mindwarper, Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch, level 4, DISK, power familiar, 4+ ward talisman (so 3+ ward), enchanted shield (1+ save), conjoined homunculus, stream of corruption, stone of good luck 430 points

17 Chaos Warriors, halberds, shields, Full command: banner of rage

joined by:

Exalted of Tzeentch, bsb, collar of Khorne, book of secrets, , shield 200 points
- Dropped him off the disk to save points and because the golden eye doesn't help much against magic. In 7th he got killed a lot and with death and metal both having default spells to kill him decided he needed a bit more protection. With the warriors he has 5A and a 3+ ward against magic and a 5+ for the rest of the unit. 3+/5+ save in combat is a bit low though.

6 Trolls 270
- definitely testing these

3* 5 hounds 90

2* Hellcannon 410

31 Khorne Marauders, gw, standard, musician.

For the rest of the list I'm intersted in opinions on three options:

OPTION 1

A second block of 30 marauders and a level 1 unmarked sorceror with the shield of 2+ ignore first hit and the staff of channelling.

Advantages:
i) An extra 4 power dice/dispel dice on average over the course of the battle compared to just lord+bsb setup
ii) A second sniper mage (death) is handy with a must dispel spell. Also acts as a further buffer if the sorceror lord gets duff spells (1,2, 4 and 5 being worst case scenario)
iii) Marauders get boosted to Ld 8 when general is off faffing about.

OPTION 2

A second block of 26 GW Khorne marauders with standard only and an unmarked warshrine

Advantages:
i) Two more deployables rather than 1
ii) Warshrine actually fights quite well in 8th edition with 5 attacks and 3.5 stomps being about 7 S4 hits per turn.
iii) Warshrine can boost other units further.

OPTION 3

Boost the Khorne marauders to 32 rather than 31. Add a unit of 15 Warriors of Tzeentch with shields, musician and banner: rapturous standard, Mr1 banner or banner of +1Ld

Advantages:
i) Warriors are obviously a fair bit harder to kill than marauders. True (ws5) 15 S4 attacks don't hurt as much as 18 s5 but they also die a lot slower and the rapturous banner gives them a very good chance to hold even when they don't have the ranks for steadfast.

Opinions very welcome...




Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
darkangel16
Warrior of the Chamber
I'd go for option 3. The marauders dont last very long so you need them to have some number for when they do get into combat.

With rapture banner and bsb those warriors have a great chance of holding.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Armylist · Next Topic »
Add Reply