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Citanul's skulltakers; Some thoughts on my 8:th edition armylis
Topic Started: Jun 18 2010, 09:31 PM (404 Views)
snyggejygge
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High Zar of Khorne

First of all I am presuming we can use all magic items in the brb & that they work like it says here


The army is focused on the old hammer & the anvil tactic, but will ofc work a bit different since my hammer units can't negate ranks anymore, also I believe 8:th edition will become a grindfest, so I need my units to be able to take some punishment either in the way of protection by armour, or by large numbers.


Lords:
Lord of Tzeentch, Halberd, Disc, Glücksbringender Schild (shield, ignore first hit on 2+), Talisman der Bewahrung (4+ ward, so with MOT he gets a normal 3+ ward against everything) & Bloodcurdling roar. 318 Pts

Cheapest lord I could find any good usefulness for, 5 S6 attacks & the roar makes him a threat both in combats & outside of them, the 2+ save & 3+ ward keeps him quite safe from harms way.

Heroes:
Exalted of Khorne, Halberd, Juggernaut, Bronze armour of Zhrakk, Glücksstein (may re-roll one failed armoursave), Favour of the Gods, battle standard. 229 Pts

Lots of attacks, decent save & some static CR means he can probably swing close combats in my favor.

Sorcerer: Barded Steed, Scroll, Warrior Familiar. 146 Pts

An old favorite, acts as a nice champion for my marauders, providing some LD & decent combat abilities (well compared to human characters), the scroll seems like a must now even more than before, would like some more, but hopefully the new magicsystem will provide me with enough protection on its own without having to spend even more points on magicdefense.

Core:
18 Chaos Warriors: Halberds, shields, FC, Banner of Rage. 371 Pts

24 ASF attacks vs most units, nastier than ever!

28 Marauders: Flails, FC, mark of Khorne. 190 Pts

Not sure whether to use GW's or flails, bigger unit than now seems a bit necessary.

5 Hounds * 2. 60 Pts

While they cannot negate ranks anymore & Frenzy is easier to control I just can't leave home without them, still so many uses.

5 Marauderhorsemen: Flails, musician & Javelins. 86 Pts

This unit will be very fast under the new rules, but one I consider needs a lot playtesting before I'm sure on it, considering banners now only give up 25 VP's it might be a good investment, & perhaps I should go for a bigger unit (12?) of Khorne instead. Will get back on it, but for now it stays the same as I'm normally using it.

Special:
4 Chaos Ogres: Mark of Khorne, GW, Chaos armour & musician. 240 Pts

Another unit I'm not sure on, used to be amazing & being able to deploy 2 wide & still get huge amount of attacks will be great, but perhaps they need to be 6 strong instead due to greatweapons asl.

6 Chaos Knights: Mark of Khorne, standard & musician.

Not much to be said about them, awesome unit & now they will hurt even when the opponent charges them.

Rare:

Hellcannon. 205 Pts

Imo got a buff with the new rules, especially since you can always measure the distance, best rarechoice in the book right now & will probably get better under 8:th edition rules.

Scyla Anfingrim: 105 Pts

The only spawn I ever used during 8:th edition, 3D6 M means he's pretty fast, ability to challenge means he's tough to kill in combats. 3+ Ward against magic! I am however a bit worried about warmachines with this guy, so he's another thing that needs playtesting, might get dropped, but stays for now.

Not any big changes to my army, had to change my herolevel discrider for a lord & increase the size of my marauders & warriors in favor of a small knight unit.

I have some thoughts on quite a lot of things tbh;
Will medium magic be worthwhile under the new rules for example, especially if you consider that we got Third eye of Tzeentch (a level 2 with Powerfamiliar & a hero with Book of Secrets might be enough in this case).
Another thought is whether I should drop the caddy for an exalted with Book of secrets & a scroll, does the exact same role but will hurt more in combat for only 34 more pts.
Do I need more magicdefense, new lores seems very evil, but on the other hand I do get more DD on average now.
BTW does the scroll take your arcane item slot now?
Should I go for trolls instead of Ogres, regeneration is better than 4+ armour...
How will the magic item that grants you a tower work, will it take its allowance out of a lord magic item slots or what? (while not useful to WoC I can see big uses with it for other armies, but not if you need to waste a lord for it).
How useful is:
Banner der Eile () 15 pts
+1 on movement range
Seems like a bargain at first glance, but only playtesting will tell.
Perhaps I should use Heldentöter (Heroslayer) 30 pts
(Bearer gains 1 attack and strength for every character model that is in base contact with him or his unit. Bonus is calculated at every the beginning of the close combat) on my lord, use him like a character killer perhaps together with Krone der Herrschaft 35 (crown of command) pts 35
Bearer is stubborn.
LD9 Stubborn & close to unkillable, sure a few more points, but can basically hold up entire regiments on his own.

I'm actually just using the lord since I can't fit in the 3 heroes under 25% while it is easy to get 2 heroes & a lord within their own 25%, strange system imo, I like the max on 25% lords, but I don't understand why they encourage you to take a lord instead of a hero if you're not within the 25% of heroes, should've been max 50% points on characters (or perhaps 40 % so we don't just spam heroes) & out of this max 50% may be used on lords (for a total of max 20-25% of the army's value).
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Seems like a solid list to me, i dont really think you need a chaos lord now with the +1ld banner, i also thinking great weapons are better than flails because with units being stubborn combars are going to last longer, atleast with the great weapon you have strength 5 every turn!

Personally i think the great weapon is a better option on a jugger hero, i mean yes he strikes last but like with your challenge, 1+ rerollable save and immune to KB and posion. One problem you might have is him being snipped assuming that is still possible.

I thought about using ogres however with the +ld banner and BSB allowing you to reroll all leadership tests i think trolls are alot more viable now.
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snyggejygge
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High Zar of Khorne

Been thinking about GW's as well on the marauders, but ASL might be too big a liability, it's another thing that needs playtesting :rolleyes:

As I mentioned I've been looking on the trolls as well, could be awesome if led by the exalted (& cheaper, need to drop his armour for something else then though),
How about giving him the Heroslayer weapon instead of armour, halberd & Favour, leading 4 trolls, could be a very nasty unit.

I am worried about sniping, but movement will have to be his friend instead of a ward.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
Well i think great weapons for the marauders is really going to depend is they get full attacks in two ranks (something Kreil mentioned), i know you mentioned trolls, i was giving a good reason to use them :P

I see no reason for your hero to join them, just keep them within 12 and your should be good to go after all he can be baited out of the unit on a bad roll would could be rather nasty.

Heroslayer is something i have also looked at, im using on my Vampire lord but i think with a exalted you need some sort of protection as well, be it a ward or a armour reroll. Personally im starting to think the ward is actually better but both have advantages. Hero slayer could be very good but i personally think you want it on a hero in a large unit, something that is likely to get charged from more than one angel. I think the great weapon is more than enough killing power for a exalted hero with a rerollable 1+ save who cant be KB.
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kerill
Exalted Guardian
ATM your sorceror has two arcane items and apparently in 8th you can only have 1 (dispel scrolls and power stones are no longer exceptions).

Also under the new rules you will never be able to use your shield in combat- will always have to be the halberd, apparently characters are affected by this new rule, just like troopers

I'm also thinking the whip of subversion has a lot of potential this edition.

On the plus side for disks though, it seems that disk riders (or juggers) will get the look out sir roll if they are near your ogres (or trolls).
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snyggejygge
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High Zar of Khorne

After some long hard thinking I re-did the list, the basics are the same, but I wanted to make sure that my powerdice aren't wasted each turn, so I went for a medium magic approach instead & I decided to use the trolls. The hero joins them though, immunity to KB might be good, but I can't keep the lord close to the trolls at all times, so better to have the hero with them, especially since he can restrain for frenzy (does the bsb give re-roll here as well?).

I'm actually just using the lord since I can't fit in the 3 heroes under 25% while it is easy to get 2 heroes & a lord within their own 25%, strange system imo, I like the max on 25% lords, but I don't understand why they encourage you to take a lord instead of a hero if you're not within the 25% of heroes, should've been max 50% points on characters (or perhaps 40 % so we don't just spam heroes) & out of this max 50% may be used on lords (for a total of max 20-25% of the army's value).

So here's the list revisited:

Lord:
Lord of Tzeentch, disc, halberd, Luck-bringer shield (wonder if it's only hit in combat or against shooting as well), Talisman of preservation (total 3+ ward), Book of Secrets, Third eye of Tzeentch. 338 Pts

Still hard to kill & good in combat, but now he gets to be a spellcaster as well, with Third eye he can steal spells from an enemy wizard & is therefore basically a higher level (spellwise) than the Book of Secrets indicates, also due to MoT he gets a total of +2 to cast spells instead, not too shabby imo.

Heroes:
Sorcerer: Mark of Tzeentch, lvl 2 upgrade, steed & a dispel scroll. 181 Pts

2 Spells, +3 to cast & the all important scroll.

Exalted of Khorne, Jugger, Great weapon, Helm of Many eyes (stupid anyway since he leads the trolls), Stone of Good Luck, bsb upgrade. 238 Pts

Core:
18 Chaos Warriors: Halberds, shields, FC, Banner of Rage. 371 Pts

As awesome as I previously mentioned, & yes I know I can't use shields in combat, but I think it's worth 18 pts to give the unit +1 save vs shooting.

30 Marauders: Flails, FC, mark of Khorne. 200 Pts

Not sure whether to use GW's or flails, bigger unit than now seems a bit necessary.


6 Chaos Hounds. 36 Pts

6 Chaos Hounds. 36 Pts

Special:
5 Chaos Trolls. 225 Pts

Awesome when led by the bsb, LD8 stupidity with re-roll means they are quite reliable.

6 Chaos Knights: Mark of Khorne, standard & musician. 300 Pts

Still good imo.

Rare:
Hellcannon. 205 Pts

Imo got a buff with the new rules, especially since you can always measure the distance, best rarechoice in the book right now & will probably get better under 8:th edition rules.

Scyla Anfingrim: 105 Pts

Needs to be playtested, but I like him how he works right now & he gets an extra stomp attack, challenge should keep him reasonably safe from the new step up rule.
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
I think your wizard wants a 3rd eye of tzeentch, maybe give him the scroll that turms a wizard into a frog :D
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kerill
Exalted Guardian
Apparently your bsb will not get a look out sir roll when with the troll unit. Same with your sorceror with marauders. They can't get picked out by shooting but can be sniped by cannons
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snyggejygge
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High Zar of Khorne

Gonna look into that, might change the sorcerers steed for an enchanted shield.
The exalted will stay on his Jugger though, but perhaps I will change his Stone of Good Luck to an Opal Amulet (got 15 pts to play around with)

Hard to justify the frog scroll, if it would dispel the spell as well I would like it, but right now I don't...
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Kormak
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High Executioner of Khorne
It really depends on how you use the frog scroll, for example lets a say lvl4 wizards castes a fire ball at the start of the phase, its not going to do alot, you use the frog scroll, that wizard cant caste anymore spells for the rest of the phase. If someone only has one wizard you have just shut down his phase, if they have two wizards then you may have removed the wizard with the better spells, best part is its only a 50/50 chance he will be back to normal next turn. what if he had a powerdice dice stored? all but the wizards wounds are reduced to one, i believe you suffer a backlash. A dispel scroll will only stop 1 spell, this has a chance to stop alot more.


Scroll of reaction? they caste a big spell, use that, it goes off but you have a great chance of killing them.
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kerill
Exalted Guardian
Kormak
Jun 19 2010, 06:22 PM
It really depends on how you use the frog scroll, for example lets a say lvl4 wizards castes a fire ball at the start of the phase, its not going to do alot, you use the frog scroll, that wizard cant caste anymore spells for the rest of the phase. If someone only has one wizard you have just shut down his phase, if they have two wizards then you may have removed the wizard with the better spells, best part is its only a 50/50 chance he will be back to normal next turn. what if he had a powerdice dice stored? all but the wizards wounds are reduced to one, i believe you suffer a backlash. A dispel scroll will only stop 1 spell, this has a chance to stop alot more.


Scroll of reaction? they caste a big spell, use that, it goes off but you have a great chance of killing them.

True but they get to roll under their level to avoid it (or equal to or under, not sure). So 50/50 or 33/100 for a level 4 and then they might turn back next turn.

I agree its very good though since when it works it could be crippling- imagine how effective turning a slann or greater daemon into a toad would be.
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