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| 2250 vs VC - 8th edition | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 29 2010, 08:47 PM (292 Views) | |
| Darth Urbrambus | Jun 29 2010, 08:47 PM Post #1 |
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The Chosen
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I've never played VC in 7th edition, so I have no idea of what works or doesn't, but here goes :) CORE: 18 Warriors of Khorne - sb, mus - shields - halberds - Eternal Flame 15 Warriors of Tzeentch - sb, mus - shields - rapturous standard 2 x 20 Marauders of Slaanesh - mus - GW 4 x 5 hounds SPECIAL: 5 Knights of Khorne 5 Knights of Slaanesh RARE: Hellcannon CHARACTERS: Exalted of Tzeentch -BSB - steed - halberd - shield - Collar of Khorne - Helm of Many Eyes Sorc Lord of Tzeentch - disc - enchanted shield - Talisman of Preservation - Spell familiar - Conjoined Homunculus Remarks: - Banner of Eternal Flame = flaming attacks, so I'm guessing these are magical attacks as well? It's to counter ethereal and GG with regen - Slaanesh is there to prevent my troops from going all over the place when my opponent summons some troops - I think Knights are still worth it, even if only to get some extra kills in - BSB gets re-rolls and adds to the magic defense of my Khorne warriors - Sorc Lord should survive with 1+AS and 3+WaS As always I welcome your comments :rock: |
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| kerill | Jun 30 2010, 12:27 PM Post #2 |
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Exalted Guardian
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I've never played VC in 7th edition, so I have no idea of what works or doesn't, but here goes smile.gif CORE: 18 Warriors of Khorne - sb, mus - shields - halberds - Eternal Flame - solid. I have a very similar unit but I went for unmarked and banner of rage to save points. Since the bsb is going here you might want to add in a champion to take challenges from dragon riders and the like (although against VC its not needed unless your opponent runs a combat lord or zomie dragon). Also with the bsb taking up two "slots" you can potentially drop 2 warriors if you decide you need points elsewhere. 15 Warriors of Tzeentch - sb, mus - shields - rapturous standard - Weird , I am planning to run an identical unit. 2 x 20 Marauders of Slaanesh - mus - GW - I think these units are a bit small to ever be steadfast. 25 would be the minimum I'm thinking. If, for example you dropped two warriors and spent the 32 points here you can get one unit up to 25 immediately. If you keep one unit smaller I might consider flails rather than great weapons. 4 x 5 hounds - Great stuff SPECIAL: 5 Knights of Khorne 5 Knights of Slaanesh - Might be a little on the small side for 8th edition, especially the slaaneshi ones which have less killing power. A typical unit of ghouls for example will be killing 0.69 knights per turn in retaliation for example, 0.83 if the helm of commandment is used. So after first turn the slaanesh knights would be loosing every turn to the ghouls. So for flanking they are fine or for taking down smaller units (and ethereals) but they are no longer the in your face unit crumblers/breakers of 7th edition. RARE: Hellcannon -Good CHARACTERS: Exalted of Tzeentch -BSB - steed - halberd - shield - Collar of Khorne - Helm of Many Eyes - Shield is worthless here since he can never use it in combat, apparently characters have the same rule as basic troops- if you have a weapon upgrade you must use it. - Bear in mind the steed means he will only get a 4+ LOS against cannons and stone throwers. 2+ save is nice of course but its something to consider if you run the list against an army other than VC. Also you are gaining a Ws3 S4 attack but loosing a Ws5 S5 attack since the warrior behind the steed will be third rank and thus unable to lend supporting attacks. Sorc Lord of Tzeentch - disc - enchanted shield - Talisman of Preservation - Spell familiar - Conjoined Homunculus - Very good, very similar to the build I run except I've dropped spell familiar for power familiar this edition since picking a spell on doubles makes it easier to get the spells IMO you want the the extra power dice are pretty key in this edition where you are only likely to have 2 PD on average more than your opponents DD. With power familiar and book of secrets that is an extra pandemonium or Treason. Having said that since VC are ITP treason won't work so maybe spell familiar is best for a pure anti VC list. Remarks: - Banner of Eternal Flame = flaming attacks, so I'm guessing these are magical attacks as well? It's to counter ethereal and GG with regen --I guess they will be magical as well but worth if for drakenhoff and varghulfs regardless. If this becomes an all-comers list bear in mind he banner will be a disadvantage against high elves. Also in future you my see more VC characters going for the dragon helm to get a 2+ ward against flaming attacks. Maybe. - Slaanesh is there to prevent my troops from going all over the place when my opponent summons some troops - I think Knights are still worth it, even if only to get some extra kills in -- As support units absolutely although if you want them to be mainline troops I think 6 or more would be better. - BSB gets re-rolls and adds to the magic defense of my Khorne warriors -- always good - Sorc Lord should survive with 1+AS and 3+WaS -Indeed. Opinions still be divided on how much the enchanted shield will be for WOC but the other 5 point shield is good as well if the enchanted shield ends up staying at 15 points. As always I welcome your comments |
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| Darth Urbrambus | Jun 30 2010, 03:17 PM Post #3 |
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The Chosen
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Thanks Kerill, I really appreciate your help :) Changes I made after reading your comments: - 1 warrior is gone but added a champion - 30 marauders with GW and 15 with flail (for flanking) - Exalted of Tzeentch now has shield - SoM - Collar - Potion of Recklessness. Since I dropped the steed, he needed some protection and a shield and SoM give him parry. The knights should mainly function as support flankers. Maybe they'll take on Black Knights or so. Questions: - does the use of the spell familiar prevent taking a Dispel scroll in the new rules? - Is the book a good choice, since it only allows you 1D6 on the new miscast table? Again, many thanks :) |
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| kerill | Jun 30 2010, 05:55 PM Post #4 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Hi mate. If SoM= sword of might then he won't be getting a ward save for parry- neither the shield nor weapon can be magic in order to get parry. But since parry only gives him a 6+ ward and he already has a 6+ ward from the collar I don't think it matters. I'm assuming potion of recklessness is the same as this: Potion of Foolhardiness - [5 pts] Only one use, Immune to Psychology and Devastating Charge Special Rule, must drink at the start of a player’s turn. In which case it doesn't seem very useful- the latest translation I've seen doesn't give immunity to killing blow (I'm assuming you were taking it in case of GG/BK/Wight killing blow?). I don't have the book but if it doesn't protect against killing blow I would suggest Charmed Shield - [5 pts] Buckler, only one use, first hit will be ignored on a D6 roll of 2+ or Luckstone - [5 pts]- Only one use, Bearer can re-roll one missed armour save. If you choose the former you don't need to pay for a normal shield and can buy another marauder :-) For your questions: Apparently spell familiar does prevent taking a scroll since scrolls and power stones are now unique and no longer have a special rule allowing them to be taken in addition to other arcane items. I think the book is an excellent choice but its more tricky whether you want it or not on the sorceror lord. Mine is on the bsb and he will be throwing at most 2 dice at the basic spell of lore of death. On the sorceror lord its in some ways safer this edition since its less likely for the mage to die from miscasting and being on his own on a disk the S10 template is only going to hit him most of the time- and he has a 3+ ward. Also you have no other sorcerors in your army so the "every sorceror takes a S6 hit" doesn't really matter much either. So basically the only problem is you will be losing D6 power dice. The book actually protects you from 10-12 result which early game is potentially the most damaging. |
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| darkangel16 | Jul 1 2010, 06:14 AM Post #5 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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if you can find the points i'd make both of your knights MoK, since its itp and the extra attacks will help you chew through zombies. And i think you'll want GW's on the marauders as you will proabably be having extended combats with vc. |
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| popisdead | Jul 3 2010, 03:18 AM Post #6 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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Heroes on cav in an infantry unit will only get a 4+ look out sir roll, and a BSB in a knight unit is not a worthwhile risk given the issues about fleeing BSBs. |
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| Darth Urbrambus | Jul 6 2010, 06:37 PM Post #7 |
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The Chosen
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First of all, thank you for your remarks :) The game got postponed unfortunately, but it did allow me to rethink my list a bit, so I came up with a slightly different version: CORE 18 Warriors: MoK, mus, sb, shields + halberds, Banner of Eternal Flame 15 Warriors: MoT, mus, sb, shields, Rapturous Standard 25 Marauders: MoK, mus, GW 15 Marauders: MoT, mus, shields + light armour 4 x 5 Hounds SPECIAL 9 Knights: MoK RARE: Hellcannon CHARACTERS: Exalted of Tzeentch -BSB - steed - halberd - shield - Collar of Khorne - Helm of Many Eyes Sorc Lord of Tzeentch - disc - enchanted shield - Talisman of Preservation - Spell familiar - Conjoined Homunculus What has changed: - hero on steed with knights - 1 warrior more - 5 less marauders - unit of 15 marauders now have 5+ AS and WaS So, what do you think of this version? Thanks again for your remarks! |
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| Artemis360 | Jul 7 2010, 08:54 AM Post #8 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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Its a cool list but I'd drop the hellcannon. I don't know what it would be able to do against an ITP army. Blowing up zombies is a waste of time and only the guy under the hole will completely lose his armour save now so not worth it even for knights I think. I like your character setup and so on and the warriors on foot seem good too. If you wanted to try something different at a later date, extra hand weapon khornate guys would chop up those undead infantry guys real good and soulblight from lore of death is very cool as well (-1 toughness and strength), allowing your warriors to chomp through T3 on 2+ and T4 on 3+. Of course, extra hand weapon is a bit of a waste if youre not running 70% of the models in the first rank of the unit. |
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