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3000 WoC; Experiments begin for the 8th edition!
Topic Started: Jul 12 2010, 03:12 AM (2,239 Views)
darkangel16
Warrior of the Chamber
Congrats on your win! :D

Just want to add that even if the marauders didnt kill much they are well worth they're points as your opponent was not shooting your other expensive stuff.
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
After my last battle I have been trying to think of ways to improve the list and came up with this possible idea:

LORD:
Lord+MoT+halberd+tals o pres+drag helm+book o S+spell fam+con hom=343

HEROES:
Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+CoK+ironcurse icon+SoM=200 (Not as well protected as before but still not bad. Hits harder now also. The key thing is here the protection he helps give the MoT warriors :D )
Sorcerer(lvl2)+MoN+scroll+en shield+3rd eye=205
(An experiment as I think most of the lore of nurgle spells are useful, unlike the lore of tzeentch where your basically hoping for 3 key spells!)
Throgg

CORE:
19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374
(My solid anvil unit. When joined by the BSB they should be a pretty tough nut to crack!)
17 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+fc+ban o rage=384
42 marauders+MoK+gw+fc=260
29 marauders+MoT+la+shield+fc=214
5 Trolls

SPECIAL:
5 Knights+m=210

RARE:
Hellcannon
Hellcannon

Total=3000

So what do you think? Changes for the better?
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Sorely tempted to use festus as well! He would take the place of the nurgle lvl2 and go with the MoT marauders to make them an even more resilient unit.
The big problem I see with using festus though is the loss of the 3rd eye and the scroll!
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
So, I have a tournament at my local GW on saturday with special characters allowed ^_^

I'm gonna take the following list, which is a evolution of my previous lists.
Any areas for improvement?

LORD:
Lord+MoT+shield+tals o endur+drag helm+SoM+book o S+spell fam+con hom=350

HEROES:
Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+tals o pres+biting blade+stream o corr=220
Sorcerer(lvl2)+MoN+scroll+necro phy+ICI+3rd eye=205
Throgg

CORE:
19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374
17 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+fc+ban o rage=384
42 marauders+MoK+gw+fc=260
29 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=185
5 Trolls

SPECIAL:
5 Knights+m=210

RARE:
Hellcannon
Hellcannon
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Darkbladesoul
Warrior of the Chamber
Before I start I'd just like to say how helpful this thread has been in making my armylist, so thanks. I run a similar list to you but with changes.

Are you sure about con hom leadership 8 is abit risky if you have stupidity and if you fail you can't do anything for the turn.

I know you have said you are sticking with the trolls, but i implore you to drop them in favour of ogres, as they are more reliable and can have marks and great weapons. I was once a great fan of trolls, but they kept letting me down at critical points in the battle. If not change them make them 8 strong including Throgg.

I thought I'd misread when i saw that they didn't have Mark of Khorne. In my book Mark of Khorne is esstenial for knights, as is a standard, but that is just me.

I also think you have too many units, I don't see how the smaller unit of Marauders is going to be very useful. At the moment it seems that you wouldn't have a great deal of space in deployment.

Here is my list if you are curious.

Sorcerer Lord
Sword of Might, Charmed Shield, Collar of Khorne, Dispel Scroll
Barded steed
Level 4
General
Fire or Shadow.
Goes with Tzeench Warriors

Exalted Hero 175
Barded Steed
Mark of Khorne, Helm of Many Eyes, Flail, shield
Goes with Marauders

Throgg 175 Goes with Ogres

Festus th Leechlord 185 goes with Khorne Warrors

17 Warriors
Mark of Khorne
Halberd Shield
Rapturous standard
Full command apart form champion

16 Warriors
Mark of Tzeench
Shield
Blasted Standard
Full commnand apart from champion
This is a very hard unit 3+ Armour 5+ ward in combat 4+ ward against Magic and shooting.

38 Marauders
Full command apart from champion
Mark of Khorne
Flail, Shield, light armour

7 Ogres 460
Standard and Musician
Mark of Khorne
Great Weapon

6 Knights 305
Banner of Rage
Musician Standard

Hellcannon 205
Hellcannon 205

2998 pts in total


Thanks,
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Darkbladesoul
Aug 27 2010, 06:50 PM
Are you sure about con hom leadership 8 is abit risky if you have stupidity and if you fail you can't do anything for the turn.

I know you have said you are sticking with the trolls, but i implore you to drop them in favour of ogres, as they are more reliable and can have marks and great weapons. I was once a great fan of trolls, but they kept letting me down at critical points in the battle. If not change them make them 8 strong including Throgg.

I thought I'd misread when i saw that they didn't have Mark of Khorne. In my book Mark of Khorne is esstenial for knights, as is a standard, but that is just me.

I also think you have too many units, I don't see how the smaller unit of Marauders is going to be very useful. At the moment it seems that you wouldn't have a great deal of space in deployment.

Thanks for your thoughts :)

To answer a few points you raised:

My lord is a regular lord and so he has leadership 9. Therefore by use of the book, spell familiar and conjoined homon, I effectively get a level 2 fighty lord with leadership 9 for the whole army. I really like this combo at the moment and am gonna continue to try it out as it gives me everything I want in a single character. Also, the risk of failing leadership 9 is considerably lower than at 8.

On the trolls, I take your points and may well swap them out for ogres if they continue to disappoint. Honestly, I hadn't thought of running Throgg with ogres, but I can see it could be a good combo. Will see how the trolls do at the tournament and take it from there.

The unmarked knights is an experiment! Last time they did me proud as warmachine hunters! I know MoK is great for the extra attacks, but knights took a big hit in usefulness this edition in my opinion and I have yet to find the best way to run them.
Personally I now see them as more harrassers: ie, warmachine hunters, weak unit hunters, flank hitters etc. This is why I have them very minimalist. If I had the MoK and they were way out on a flank the bets are I wouldn't be able to control them properly, hence no mark. Anyhow, they're still being experimented with.

As for the smaller MoT marauder unit, their role is back-up! They add useful numbers to the army and provide a bunker for my nurgle sorcerer. Again, I'm still experimenting with their optimum setup but I'd be very surprised if they ever drop out of my list.

After the tournamant I'm sure I'll have a beter feel for what works and what doesn't and I'm sure changes will ensue. I might even end up agreeing with you ;)
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Darkbladesoul
Warrior of the Chamber
Sorry I thougt your Lord was a Sorcerer Lord and they have leadership 8. Opps my bad :wacko:. I thought it was a Sorcerer Lord, because of the spell familiar.

But, this means you don't have a level 4 :rolleyes: Level 4s are the key to controlling the magic phase as you get +4 to dispel and cast. Two level 2s just don't cut it.

I see what you are saying about the knights, but a 210pt unit to hunt warmachines.

1. Yeah, they will get the job done
2. Abit to slow and not very manoverable, they attract too much attention
3. Invest in something faster and not as likely to attract alot of attention.

Eg The dwarf gunner sees a unit of knights charging towards them, but he doesn't see the unit of Marauder Horsemen with the Vanguard Special rule already on the flank waiting to charge next turn.

Fast cavarly are faster and can get into postion quicker, because of their free reform and vanguard special rule.
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Yeah, but marauder horsemen have paper thin armour and aren't as flexible as knights!

I don't plan on just using knights to hunt war machines, they can perform several tasks. Plus if they distract fire away from the core of my army all the better in a way :P
Also, for a usable unit of marauder horsemen I'd need about 10+ which would rapidly approach the cost of 5 knights!

I know, I don't use a level 4 :o Main reason is that I really want to give the regular lord a good shot (and cos regular lords are COOL B) ). Also, from my games so far I have found magic to be so random that investing to many points in it is counter-productive.
What I like about my current build is I get access to a great lore (shadow) and get a good fighter and leader as well. Sure he may blow himself and his unit up but that's part of the fun!

I have question for you regarding your lord and BSB: do you not have trouble protecting them from warmachine sniping due to the change in LOS rules?
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Darkbladesoul
Warrior of the Chamber
Do you mean how they don't get the look out sir rule since they are on horse. No i don't have any trouble, at the moment anyway, some people haven't noticed this change so they don't snipe. Also, the armies at my club are 2 Daemons, 1 Vamp, 1 skaven, 1 Dark elf and My WoC. None of these armies have cannons except skaven, but my level 4 has jinxed his cannon, because it has blown up twice. So he doesn't shoot at the level 4 aymore. Having said that the BSB has died from the cannon. Finally I take lore of fire, so fireball is a must i normally do 3D6 str hits on the cannon and all i have to do is roll 4 lucky sixes and the cannon is dead.
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Fair enough, thats one way to deal with them!

So I got to play at my local GW tournamant today, unfortunately it wasn't very well organised and so no one ended up winning!

I only got two games played: 1 win, 1 draw, not bad ;)

I'll give you a run down of how I think the units did:

LORD: Was good. Died in the first game to a tenderising tyrant :angry: But apart from that he provided great support in magic and combat. Solid general, I like him :P

BSB: Brilliant! Is a rock solid tank with this build, love him!

Sorcerer: Did alright, 3rd eye was pretty useful. Definitely found the lore of nurgle to be more useful than tzeentch. He's staying for now.

Throgg: Brilliant to! Took out a couple of characters, makes troll units good. Great value character. Definitely staying in the list.

Tzeentch warriors: A total rock! This unit is hard!!!! Love them. Combine with the BSB and they aren't running away :P

Nurgle warriors: A complete killing machine, even when they only have 5 models left! This unit plus my lord is just good fun! Watch the comabt res stack up!!!

Khorne marauders: Did ok. Definitely needs to be around this number to do anything useful! They die in droves but can still dish it out afterwards. Plus, they're quite cheap for what they do :)

Tzeentch marauders: Did well as a back-up unit. Shields+MoT rock in comabt. Also provide a good bunker for my nurgle sorcerer. Didn't miss light armour at all!

Trolls: Great unit, but only with Throgg! Resilient, fun and quite hard hitting. Good support unit. They're staying for now.

Knights: A real disappointment! Did not really do anything that useful in either game. Am seriously questioning if I need knights anymore. Not sure what I could replace them with or how to make them more useful. Am open to hear suggestions.

Hellcannons: Did alright. Attract quite a lot of attention which is good for the rest of the army! Useful in combat as well, plus they help out with hoard armies. They're staying for now.

So overall I was pleased with the way my army performed. The only unit I was really disappointed with was the knights. I don't know what to do with this unit now.

Any good ideas?
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Death Korp
Member Avatar
Warrior of the Chamber
I keep seeing dual Hellcannons in lists, and was wondering what the benefits were to fielding two?

Nice list by the way, I really need to have a go at buying and fielding some Trolls/Ogres...



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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Death Korp
Aug 29 2010, 07:06 AM
I keep seeing dual Hellcannons in lists, and was wondering what the benefits were to fielding two?

Two chances to nail monsters/hoard units! They are really quite useful in combats and make good roadblocks to.
My experiences in the tournament though did show me that they are very vunerable to other war machines.

Maybe one is enough! May have to try and see.
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Having had some time after the tournament and being able to mull over my list and also comments made here I am gonna change my list to this:

LORD:
Lord+MoT+shield+tals o endur+drag helm+SoM+book o S+spell fam+con hom=350

HEROES:
Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+tals o pres+biting blade+stream o corr=220
Sorcerer(lvl2)+MoN+scroll+charmed shield+ICI=175
Throgg

CORE:
19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374
17 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+fc+ban o rage=384
42 marauders+MoK+gw+fc=260
29 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=185
5 Trolls

SPECIAL:
5 Knights+MoK+m=240

RARE:
Hellcannon
Hellcannon

The minor changes are losing the 3rd eye on the sorcerer to get back the MoK for the knights.

I think losing the 3rd eye is not that big a deal as in the games I have played so far it has only been moderately useful.
Putting the MoK back on the knights makes them more of a threat and therefore more useful. I just hope I can keep control of them!
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dragonhardt24
The Chosen
Hey guardian, have you considered running a sorcerer lord, putting him in a unit with the banner of rage and giving him a sword that adds to his attacks and then using the lore of shadow to use his Ld. value as his strength? Might be something you want to try since you seem to be going for an all-in-one lord choice.
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Interesting idea. I was trying to stay away from a sorcerer lord for just now as I wanted to give the regular lord a fair shot. Your combo does sound good though.
My only problem is I'm still not convinced yet that I NEED a sorcerer lord as magic is so fickle now.

I'm happy to hear arguments to the contrary however ^_^
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