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| 3000 WoC; Experiments begin for the 8th edition! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 12 2010, 03:12 AM (2,238 Views) | |
| PrinceofPleasure | Sep 1 2010, 09:26 AM Post #31 |
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The Chosen
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Taking the lord level caster gets you lore of shadow, which is like a god send for warriors. The default spell is amazing, need to hit those swordmasters on 3's no problem -d3ws, need to not get shot up by handgunners -d3 Bs. The lord is nice, but the plan with warriors is mainly to force as many test on your opponent and not take many yourself, so ld8 with rerolls should suffic. However, your general should be what you think is cool so more power to you for sticking to your guns. Things I would change in your list. I'd lose some points in characters and go for making the Tzeentch marauders a warrior block. Swap the trolls and knights for double hand weapon drogers. So something like this. Lord - 350( I'm not sure on the legality to taking the conjoined as it says sorcerer only, not wizard only or some such) bsb - 220 or try out mine: halberd, MofT, armour of Morrslieb,Necrotic Phylactery for (194) 2nd sorcerer, maybe festus, for some withering+curse of the leper action 19 Tzeentch Warriors - 374 17 Nurgle warriors - 384 40 Khorne marauders - 250 20 Tzeentch warriors - 390 Shields, Full Command, Blasted standard 3 Dragon Ogres - 219 additional hand weapons 3 Dragon Ogres - 219 additional hand weapons Hellcannon - 205 Hellcannon - 205 Thats 2991, how does it loock to you? |
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| guardian angel | Sep 1 2010, 07:48 PM Post #32 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Thanks for your thoughts. Things that are definitely staying are the trolls, throgg, MoT maruaders; they've been good so far and don't see a need to change them. However I was actually having a think about what everyone has been saying about sorcerer lords and trying to come up with a way I would like to run one; you see, I want him to be a fighty caster! Therefore I came up with the following idea. It keeps the core of the list but gives me more magic power and allows me try a warshrine :o What do you guys think? LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4)+MoT+tals o pres+charm shield+runesword=390 (Quite a cool compromise I think. Still fighty and survivable, but more casty now as well ^_^ Quite cheap to at only 390pts!) HEROES: Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+en shield+tals o endur+fav o gods=200 (Still pretty tough and can modify warshrine rolls :P ) Ex hero+halberd+MoT+book o sec+drag helm+tals o prot+3rd eye=199 (My new big experiment! He would go with the MoT marauders and give them extra punch. But also he acts as another caster. I know what I said about 3rd eye, but on him I think it makes good sense!) Throgg CORE: 19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374 17 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+fc+ban o rage=384 42 marauders+MoK+gw+m+sb=252 29 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=185 5 Trolls SPECIAL: 6 Knights+MoK+m=280 (Makes this unit better, more wounds, more attacks, still an issue with controlling them though!) RARE: Hellcannon Warshrine (Another major experiment! Idea is to buff the MoT warriors as that'll be where the BSB with fav o gods will be, but can also buff other units. May make a decent support unit in combat also.) Also, Princeof pleasure, how effective have you found dragon ogres this edition? |
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| PrinceofPleasure | Sep 1 2010, 10:09 PM Post #33 |
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The Chosen
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I've found drogers to be more effective than any other cav, they trade armour for wounds, which lessens the effect of personally rolling poorly. 3 with double hand weapons is 12 S5 attacks and 3 auto hitting S5 attacks, that will rip though the flanks of most infantry and support units head on. Where chaos knights will lose a wound here and a wound there, dropping their output significantly, 3 dragon ogres is 12 wounds where you have to lose 4 wounds before you lose a single attack. I think you'll find them more useful than trolls, especially since they don't need to be babysat by another hero. They can rove around the flanks confidant that ld8 re-rolls will keep them from panicing. The problem I found with the Tzeentch marauder unit is while its an effect anvil, it runs contrary to the WofC ethos. WofC are designed to own the combat phase, tzeentch marauders are little more than buffed empire swordsmen. They just give your enemy something to deviat templates, and shoot small arms at. If you've played an empire army with 30 small arms guys 2 mortors, 2 cannons and a rocket battery, you'll see the good players will knock out your support elements first and leave your stronger combat units stranded so they can be mobbed up by terrible halberdiers. In the face of this I've found you need units that will stick around, 20 Chaos warriors does, 20-30 marauders do not. So unless you are dual shrining it up the warriors are going to be better everytime. 3+ armour 5+ parry, 2 S4 attacks lets you help out in the fight without a supporting character, rather than simply hoping to not die and negate steadfast. Personally, i think you'll be better of using few characters and more bodies, or the same number with only mundane gear. |
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| dragonhardt24 | Sep 3 2010, 01:05 AM Post #34 |
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The Chosen
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I posted what I'm looking at running for 2500 points, guardian, if you wanted to take a look. I would have posted here, but i didn't want to hijack your post. |
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| guardian angel | Sep 15 2010, 07:59 PM Post #35 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So, I managed to get 1 1/2 games in last night :D I used the below list to experiment with some new stuff. LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4-Shadow)+tals o pres+charm shield+runesword+conjoin homon=390 HEROES: Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+en shield+tals o endur+fav o gods=195 Ex hero+halberd+ahw+MoT+book o sec+drag helm+tals o prot+3rd eye=203 Throgg CORE: 19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374 17 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+fc+ban o rage=384 42 marauders+MoK+gw+m+sb=252 29 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=185 5 Trolls SPECIAL: 6 Knights+MoK+m=280 RARE: Hellcannon Warshrine My first game was against another WoC army which I ended up loosing by 500 odd pts :( I could have been so much worse though! Second game we had to stop as the store was closing after reaching turn 4. That was against skaven and it was a finely balanced game, hence we just called it a draw. My thoughts on how the units did: Socerer lord: I take it all back, sorcerer lords are good! I REALLY liked the +4 to cast and dispel. Also the lore of shadow really compliments WoC well. Unfortunately he died in spectacular fashion in the 1st game as he totalled powered and proceeded to get sucked into the warp and took half his unit with him. I almost conceeded at that point! However in general I think I may have been converted. Didn't really miss a scroll either. BSB: Solid character. Annoyingly died against the skaven to a fellblade weilding warlord. I hate that weapon :angry: FoG on him was decent though. Allowed me to buff his unit well making them an even harder nut to crack. Ex hero: I like this combo :P I found this setup to be both flexible and useful. Having 3rd eye on him really helps out sometimes. Also, I was pleasantly surprised how nice it is to be able to switch between halberd and ahw when needed. He also adds some punch where required. Definitely gonna try him some more. Throgg: Brilliant! So much fun and well worth his points. If your not against special characters take him, you know you want to ;) MoT warriors: Rock solid anvil. Couple that with blessings from the warshrine and they don't shift easily at all. Love them. MoN warriors: Still as choppy as ever. Love them too! MoK marauders: Worth I think. In the first game I was cautious with them butin the second game they ran over a slave unit and then humped a big plauge monk unit without breaking a sweat. I think this is around the right number to run them at. They also add useful numbers to the army. MoT marauders: A solid performance as normal. They may not be spectacular but I find them a good support unit, especially when joined by my other exalted hero. Trolls: Great fun and pretty resilient. They can also dish out the pain. They're definitely staying. MoK knights: Oh boy did this unit impress me! In the first game they took out 2 5-man MoK knight units, plus a 1/2 strength warrior unit. In the second game they were alright, but boy was I impressed. 6 defo seems better than 5 and MoK makes them SO much better. Gonna keep trying them for now. Hellcannon: Did ok. Good to have in the list to put some shooting pressure on the enemy, however it didn't end up shooting much due to rampaging! Interestingly I didn't miss my 2nd hellcannon. Maybe 1 indeed is enough. Warshrine: Well, it never died, was generally ignored and helped bless the MoT warriors. It did ok overall, but am not convinced. I somehow think I should be using its points on more useful things, but am gonna keep testing it for now. Anyhow, this has now turned into a really long post and I need FOOD! Happy to hear any comments or opinions on the above :) |
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| guardian angel | Sep 16 2010, 07:39 PM Post #36 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Was thinking last night about ways to improve my list and came up withthe following combo to try out: Sorcerer lord(lvl4-shadow)+tals o pres+charm shield+glaive of putr+potion of strength+conjoin homon=385 42 MoK marauders+gw+fc=260 The main change is the weaponary on the lord. My thinking is that when he does get into challenges, with the potion of strength he has a good chance of putting a serious dent in the challenger as long as he survives one round of combat. However, it's not only useful in challenges; he could also use it against big bad monsters (hydras, stegadons etc). The other cool thing is that the glaive coupled with mind razor would be even better ;) Definitely worth a go I think. This also allows me to get my champion back on the MoK marauders. Has anyone use the glaive+potion of strength combo yet to good effect? |
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| guardian angel | Sep 20 2010, 01:11 AM Post #37 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So after throwing around some more ideas I have decided to take some peoples advice and make my sorcerer lord more suited to his purpose. This will therefore be my next trial with him: Sorcerer lord(lvl4-Shadow)+tals o pres+charm shield+blood o T+gold sigil sword+conjoin homon=385 This gives him decent defense, magic boosting capabilities and initative 10 may come in very handy if he gets stuck in challenges; if he gets mind razor off could be a winner, and also will deny most re-rolls to hit. Will see how he fairs. |
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| guardian angel | Sep 27 2010, 03:30 PM Post #38 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So, am gonna get some games in tomorrow, here is the list I'm gonna use: LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4-Shadow)+tals o pres+charm shield+blood o T+warrior bane+conjoin homon=375 HEROES: Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+en shield+tals o endur+biting blade+stream o corr=215 Ex hero+halberd+MoT+book o sec+drag helm+tals o prot+3rd eye=199 Throgg CORE: 19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374 17 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+fc+ban o rage=384 42 marauders+MoK+gw+m+sb=252 29 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=185 5 Trolls SPECIAL: 6 Knights+MoK+m=280 Chariot+MoS=130 RARE: Hellcannon My big experiment will be the chariot. Haven't used one is this new edition, but gonna give it a go. Should be more useful than the warshrine at least! |
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| guardian angel | Sep 29 2010, 04:35 AM Post #39 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So got a couple of games in as planned today: First game was a pitched battle against another WoC army, I ended up conceeding :( I don't know that I did to much wrong however I know I made a mistake accepting a daemon princes challenge with my BSB! I really thought he be able to handle it, but he just died so easily due to some poor dice rolling on my side. Also my opponent was using a 20+ chosen unit + warshrine and always manages to get 4+ ward and stubborn! I mean, what can you do against that? Second game was against a skaven with 2 abominations, screaming bell, doomwheel and warp lightning cannon! I ended up winning this but not before one HPA single handley totalled my MoT warrior block+bsb. I couldn't believe it! How the hell do you handle that thing? That was my most resilient block and it just steam rollered it! Anyhow, here's a run down on how I felt my units performed: Sorcerer lord: Did well in both games. BoT is really good for helping boost casting rolls and avoiding miscasts. I LOVE shadow magic! It helps the army out SO much. Gonna stick with his current setup for now. BSB: I have to say I'm a little disappointed in him :( Ok, fair enough it was a mistake putting him in a challenge with a daemon prince, but I really thought he could take it! I still think he has a solid build but maybe he needs to be tougher still, or I'm just beinf stupid and unlucky! Never used stream o corr once. May well drop it. Ex hero: Am happy with this guy. Generally takes fireball or knicks the enemys spells. Also is decent in a challenge. He accounted for the skaven general :P A useful all-rounder. Throgg: What can I say; makes trolls worth taking, is resilient, great fun and eats knights for breakfast ;) Take him, you know you want to :P MoT warriors: Disappointing 2 games. They are normally my rock, but without the BSB they're not half as good. Still can't believe what the HPA did to them! They're staying though. MoN warriors: Did ok. They can dish out a lot of pain, but they are still quite vunerable to counter attack. MoN really helps them out in melee though. Defo staying. MoK marauders: Did ok. Died to chosen in the first game but helped save the chariot in the second. They may not always be spectacular, but they add good numbers to the army and carry a potent threat that can't be ignored by the enemy. They're staying. MoT marauders: I continue to be surprised at how useful and resilient this unit is. It is normal joined by my non BSB exalted. They may not be electricfying in combat, but they rarely lose and provide an excellent support unit to my army. Plus they add more numbers ^_^ Trolls: Just awesome! Take with Throgg and let the fun begin. These guys eat knights for breakfast! So much fun and with the EoTG rule well worth taking. MoK knights: Great support unit. Either use them to support your main battle line or put them on a flank by themselves. Either way, they seem to get the job done. Against the skaven they destroyed the doomwheel over 2 turns :) MoS chariot: Oh how useful did I find this! What a great support unit I've found here. Only 130pts and it is pretty dam hard. It toughness, wounds and armour save again make it very resilient. I also really liked having another fast unit that I could throw into combats. Am defo gonna keep trying it. Only thing now is do I change the mark to MoK or MoN? Hellcannon: Solid as always. Help weaken some units and attracted attention away from the rest of the army. I defo think one is enough. There's no need for two I think now I've played more games. One is always worth it though. So there you are. Points I need to think about are: 1) How do I improve the survivability of my BSB? 2) Is it worth changing the chariot mark to MoK or MoN? Ideas/opinions please? |
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| guardian angel | Oct 7 2010, 09:33 PM Post #40 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So, having been and come back from holiday I have come up with a new slant on my list; I'm gonna try 2 lords! I have been having decent success with my shadow sorcerer lord however I'm now wondering if I could get by with just one lord caster and that allows me to get a combat lord :P Here's my latest list that I'll be trying out: LORD: Lord+shield+MoT+sword of anti-heroes+tals o pres+HoME=330 Sorcerer lord(lvl4)+MoT+disc+arm o destiny+blood o T+3rd eye=415 HEROES: Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+en shield+tals o endur+biting blade=195 Throgg CORE: 19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374 17 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+fc+ban o rage=384 42 marauders+MoK+gw+m+sb=252 25 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=165 5 Trolls SPECIAL: 6 Knights+MoK+m=280 RARE: Hellcannon |
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| guardian angel | Oct 9 2010, 04:03 AM Post #41 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Can't help myself, have changed the list again! Gone back to a shadow sorcerer lord instead of tzeentch. Am looking forward to trying this soon. LORD: Lord+shield+MoT+sword of anti-heroes+tals o pres+HoME=330 Sorcerer lord(lvl4-shadow)+arm o morr+necro phy+blood o T+3rd eye+con hom=390 HEROES: Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+en shield+tals o endur+biting blade=195 Throgg CORE: 19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374 17 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+fc+ban o rage=384 42 marauders+MoK+gw+m+sb=252 30 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=190 5 Trolls SPECIAL: 6 Knights+MoK+m=280 RARE: Hellcannon Combat lord will go with the nurgle warriors, bsb with the tzeentch warriors and the sorcerer lord with the tzeentch marauders. That way if my sorcerer miscasts at least he'll only be killing marauders!!! |
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| guardian angel | Oct 13 2010, 04:33 AM Post #42 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Got a game against skaven with the above list tonight. We played the battle of the pass secnario which I was quite glad about as it limited him bringing his superior numbers to bear. The result of the battle ended up with me winning by about 500pts :D It was a VERY bloody battle though! My analysis on how the unis performed: Combat lord: He's nails :o He couldn't pass an armour save at all but passed every ward save he had to take :P I really like this setup. Stupidity is hardly an issue with leadership 9, and the re-rolls make him much more reliable in combat. I found the sword of anti-heroes to be an excellent choice. It is a reasonable cost, and given my lord is always gonna be challenging makes him hit harder. I ended up fighting a unit pushing the screaming bell including a grey seer, bsb and assassin! That's plus 3 attacks and plus 3 strength! He ended up helping kill the unit, plus he killed the grey seer and assassin. At the end of the game he was the only model left fighting the bell, and he had toughness 6 and mr3 ;) God he rocked B) Sorcerer lord: Did fairly well. Was pleased to see he was effective all on his own. Gonna keep him as is for now. He helped tip several combats in my favour with his hex spells. I find shadow lore to be so useful to WoC. Also was much happier bunkering him in the tzeentch marauders in case he miscasted! BSB: Solid performance. Staying as is. Provided good support to the rest of the army. Throgg: Did ok. He and his trolls accounted for the HPA which was cool. As good as ever though. Tzeentch warriors: Solid as ever. Took out a unit of hexed 40 plauge monks. Dependable warriors that are always teamed with the bsb. Defo staying. Nurgle warriors: Ended up dying to a man against the screaming bell unit but carved their way through it along with my combat lord. MoN plus banner of rage is an ace combo. Part of me thinks the banner of rage is superior to the MoK as you never loose frenzy. This can be very important in long, drawn out combats. Khorne maruders: Unfortunately were rendered useless due to being "plauged" and then hit with warp lighting. Plauge alone halved the unit :o I guess at least it wasn't my warriors that suffered this fate. I HATE plauge :angry: Tzeentch maruaders: Provided a good bunker for my sorcerer lord. Didn't do much else apart from that, but they're staying for now. Trolls: Helped kill the HPA :D Unfortunately got humped by an unfortunate overrun afterwards, Hey ho! In general I love them. Them plus throgg are just ace. Khorne knights: Still kill things well. Still had 3 left at the end of the game. These 3 were unfrenzied but still managed to beat a 40 man clan rat unit with a chieftan. Come on the boys :P Great support unit. Hellcannon: Didn't really do a lot apart from vitally panicking the jezzails off the board :P Another good support unit though that helped tie up some of the smaller skaven support units. Overall I was very pleased with how this list performed. I don't think I'll change it at all for now. Star of show had to be my comabt lord though. He was so cool holding off the screaming bell and a unit of skaven slaves in his flank at the end. Awesome. That's why I love this game ;) |
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| guardian angel | Oct 16 2010, 08:13 PM Post #43 |
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Exalted Guardian
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What do you guys think of this ist: LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4)+MoT+book o ash+CoK+ICI+3rd eye+con hom=435 HEROES: Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+en shield+tals o endur+biting blade=195 Throgg CORE: 19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374 42 marauders+MoK+gw+m+sb=252 29 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=185 5 Trolls SPECIAL: 18 chosen+MoT+shields+halberds+fc+fav o gods+wailing ban=485 6 Knights+MoN+m+sb+ban o rage=335 RARE: Hellcannon Warshrine |
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| guardian angel | Oct 16 2010, 09:07 PM Post #44 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Or........ LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4)+MoT+book o ash+CoK+3rd eye+con hom=430 HEROES: Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+tals o pres+biting blade=200 Throgg CORE: 19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374 42 marauders+MoK+gw+m+sb=252 29 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=185 5 Trolls SPECIAL: 18 chosen+MoT+shields+halberds+fc+fav o gods+wailing ban=485 6 Knights+MoN+m+sb+ban o rage=335 RARE: Hellcannon Warshrine Improves the BSB's defense ;) |
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| guardian angel | Oct 28 2010, 03:16 AM Post #45 |
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Exalted Guardian
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I have a game against HE at 2000pts on saturday and therefore have had to change my list up. I haven't played in the 8th at this points level yet but this is what I have come up with: LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4)+MoT+book o ash+CoK+ICI+3rd eye=415 HEROES: Ex hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+tals o pres+biting blade=200 CORE: 19 warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rap std=374 18 warriors+MoN+shields+halberds+m+sb+ban o rage=389 29 marauders+MoT+shield+fc=185 SPECIAL: 5 Knights+m+sb=230 RARE: Hellcannon The good thing is that this allows me to try out the tzeentch sorcerer lord. What do you think? Areas for improvement? |
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