| Welcome to The Chamber of the Everchosen. We hope you enjoy your visit! Here at COTEC we are all about the Warriors of Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy Battle. Tactics to help you slaughter your opponent on the tabletop, through to galleries on how to build your next Warshrine. Its all covered... and growing! We are a forum for gamers and hobbyist alike and again would like to welcome you to a fun, friendly, warm place and hope to see you again! Join our legion! Takes less than a minute and gives you access to everything! If you're already a member please log in to your account by entering the correct runes and words of power: |
| Chaos Ogres | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 25 2010, 12:28 AM (643 Views) | |
| Unuhexium | Aug 25 2010, 12:28 AM Post #1 |
|
The Chosen
|
With 8th ed. monstrous infantry got a huge buff so I'm playing around with the idea of fielding chaos ogres as a terror unit... and a great conversion project. My initial idea is this: 8 ogres MoK Full command Great weapons Chaos armour Total 480pts This unit is about as scary as it is expensive, at least on paper. How do you guys arm and field chaos ogres and how well do they perform? |
![]() |
|
| Sawdust | Aug 25 2010, 02:24 AM Post #2 |
|
The Chosen
|
I've never played with ogres but I usually play against them...and they are crappy, though they are normal ogres which cause impact hits but don't have frenzy and a 4+ save. I have actually thought of fielding a unit of ogres sometime, but I'd rather field them in units of 6. You see, the thing about ogres is that they have bad leadership (Ld7), which means if you are unlucky once it gonna cost you a LOT of points. Luckily for you, you use them with Mark of khorne which means they won't run away due to massive shooting. Also remember that if they are Frenzied they have to check for Berserk Rage if an enemy unit is within 24'' (they have M6) so make sure you have a BSB and your general nearby. Also remember that the second rank can only support with up to 3 attacks each, which means that you will lose some attacks, though this is not actually gonna be a problem as you have 29 S6 attacks. Now that I think about it it's actually pretty damn hard to be unlucky with that kind of hitting power ;) My point is that you really don't need mark fo Khorne. It's expensive so you should maybe consider using another mark on them. Also, if you are not going to get into fights with characters, that champion of yours is a giant points waste. I rarely use 20 points on +1 attack and being able to challenge unless I have a character in the unit. Just think about it. But for realz, I think that unit is gonna hit hard if they get stuck in. Just remember to pass your Leadership tests ;) |
![]() |
|
| Rimmz | Aug 25 2010, 04:30 AM Post #3 |
|
The Chosen
|
Monstrous Infantry are not as good as they sound in the new edition. Giving them great weapons means they strike last and even running in a group of 8 you loose 4 attacks for every 3 wounds you take. You are also striking last with the GW which means everything will be able to hit you first and at T4 4+ AS you are pretty hardy but anything with a large number of attacks is going to chew the unit up before you can even swing. Do the math against say Empire Halberds running in a horde because you know they will be. You have a 160mm frontage so the entire formation can attack you. Thats 30 attacks at st4. 15 will hit you 7.5 will wound and you will save 2 thats 4 wounds loosing 1 ogre and 3 attacks (back rank) You will attack back with 21 attacks hitting 10.5 wounding and killing 9 so you win the combat but the unit is steadfast so they will hold and the unit will kill the ogres before the ogres kill them. Also take into consideration that the unit is extremely vulnerable to missile fire. 24 High Elf Archers in a 6x4 formation will get 18 shots at you. Hitting 12 wounding 4 and you saving 2. That's 2 wounds a round. Now those are 2 relatively weak units to compare them too but then upgrade that to High Elf spear men or Empire Crossbows or Dwarf Thunderers and you have a problem. Then compare it to Chaos Warriors x18 270 366 Mark of Khorne 30 Shields 18 Halberds 18 Full Command 30 You have a 150mm frontage so you are more maneuverable you have to loose 7 models to loose any attacks. You have 25 st5 attacks that go at I5 not last. You have a higher weapon skill and a better AS against shooting. All that at 120pts cheaper. MI sound good but they really aren't as good as regular infantry. Trolls are a different story however because of regen and mutant regen. |
![]() |
|
| Unuhexium | Aug 25 2010, 04:32 AM Post #4 |
|
The Chosen
|
@Audust: Well I was actually asking for people who actually have any experience with chaos ogres, but you make a few good points. The champ is indeed a massive waste of points. The unit is insanely expensive as it is so I have to cut every corner I can. Personally I consider MoK to be a viable option. It means that they won't run away when that cannonball hits the unit and it WILL come at some point. Sure, they have to test for frenzy for whenever an enemy unit is within 18" (not 24), but as you say that's what the BSB is for and these days it's pretty daft to leave home without one anyway. ^^ The question is if any kind of command is useful at all. With MoK and GWs, they should be able to rack up enough CR not to need the standard. On average they will score nine to eleven points of active resolution. Add charging and a rank and very few units will be able to beat that. @Rimmz: Point taken. |
![]() |
|
| Yourswordismine | Aug 25 2010, 08:33 AM Post #5 |
|
The Chosen
|
In my large point army I run 6 (3x2) with MoN, FC, Chaos Armor and Great Weapons. |
![]() |
|
| Unuhexium | Aug 25 2010, 09:06 AM Post #6 |
|
The Chosen
|
What advantages do you see compared to warriors? |
![]() |
|
| Rimmz | Aug 25 2010, 09:41 AM Post #7 |
|
The Chosen
|
The only advantage over Warriors is the stop. You can get more attacks per point with warriors with a better chance of striking back because a unit of warriors can soak more wounds without loosing attack than a ogre unit can. You can even give warriors great weapons to get the St6 attacks if you really want to but they are better with Halberds IMO |
![]() |
|
| Yehoshua | Aug 25 2010, 11:47 AM Post #8 |
|
Warrior of the Chamber
|
The advantages Ogres have over Warriors are speed, attacks/mm of frontage for flanking (especially for flanking 20mm bases), stomp attacks, immunity to stomps, and reduced sensitivity to template effects. As stated above, they are a substandard primary unit of battle. I have considered taking 4 to 6 with MoN and GWs, running them up the flank in order to support my center by drawing part of the enemy's fire and engaging targets of opportunity. Explanation: Ogres march 12, charge 11 reliably, and can get a minimum of 12 attacks (14 with frenzy) and 2 stomps into a unit on the flank, regardless of depth. Warriors march 4, charge 9 reliably, and can only get a minimum of 6 attacks (8 with frenzy) into a unit on the flank, regardless of depth. If an enemy unit is 40mm deep, you can get 3x2 ogres into combat on the flank, and only 3x2 warriors. Even if that unit is 50 or 60mm deep, you only get up to 4x2 warriors. The major weaknesses of Ogres have already been described above. I will point out, however, that the dangers of striking last are partially mitigated if Ogres are fighting on the enemy's flank. Most enemy units have dramatically reduced killing power on their flanks because they lose supporting attacks and are not as deep as they are wide. Given these attributes, Ogres may be well used in a support role, threatening to advance up unguarded flanks and slam into those enemies who become locked in combat with a marauder or warrior unit. |
![]() |
|
| Rimmz | Aug 25 2010, 06:45 PM Post #9 |
|
The Chosen
|
Valid points but Trolls are better still in that role. The downside of course is the general needs to be near by. |
![]() |
|
| Absalom | Aug 25 2010, 09:50 PM Post #10 |
|
The Chosen
|
I have the exact same set-up as you are thinking about....MOK, full command etc. I've had alot of luck with them in 7th edition and in 8th they are even better. I highly recomend them. If you want some battle report type ancedots...let me know. |
![]() |
|
| mrtn | Aug 25 2010, 11:09 PM Post #11 |
|
Swashbuckling Moderator
![]()
|
Musician should be good for reforming after battle, or just plain reforming, and standard should be good for the "keep your standards" scenario. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Tactics · Next Topic » |







4:59 PM Jul 11