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| 8th Edition Tzeentch WoC; 1k/1.5k/2k Lists | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 24 2010, 07:05 AM (563 Views) | |
| Deiton the Infernal | Sep 24 2010, 07:05 AM Post #1 |
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Slave
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Greetings. I'm new here (having previosuly frequented other forums such as Warseer, and more specialised forums like this one, Lustria-Online and Asrai.org) and i'm looking to get some input on these WoC lists i've been cooking up. Now, before I post them I have a few rules for my Tzeentch WoC (people might recognise them from Warseer): 1) All markable units must have the mark of Tzeentch. (The most important and unbreakable rule). 2) There may not be more non-wizards than there are wizards in the army unless the general is a Sorcerer Lord. (The other most important and unbreakable rule). 3) May not ally with any army that contains any Khornate units (whether they're led by a Tzeentch general or not), nor may it ally with an army that contains Nurgle/Slaanesh units unless this army is led by a Tzeentch General. (The new rule that may be removed if it proves too fiddly and too much of a hinderance). They are my self-imposed rules for my Tzeentch WoC, now, onto the lists: 1000pts: Heroes: Deiton the Damned - Lvl 2 Chaos Sorcerer w/ MoT, Disc, Bloodcurdling Roar, Golden Eye, Spell Familiar and Dragonhelm – 230pts Troops: 35x Chaos Marauders w/ MoT, Shields, Standard Bearer and Musician – 212pts 15x Warriors w/ MoT, Shields, Standard Bearer and Musician – 278pts Special: Chaos Chariot w/ MoT – 140pts Chaos Chariot w/ MoT – 140pts Total – 1000pts Deiton as represented before his ascent to Lordship. His load-out is mainly ranged protection-based and spell-based, with little spell protection or melee protection. The roar seems terribly fun, and could be devestating against small elite units or warmachines. Dragonhelm ups his AS and also provides some protection against Lore of Fire enemies and units with the Banner of Eternal Flame. Marauders are my standard tarpit loadout. Equipped for running 5x7 with a 6+/5+ in combat. Warriors are my equally standard tarpit loadout, 5x3 with a 3+/5+ in combat. Anvil units. Chariots add flavour and they also look cool. I'm hoping to use them either to double flank charge a unit held by the marauders/warriors or harass flanks. Hammer units. 1500pts: Heroes: Deiton the Damned - Lvl 2 Chaos Sorcerer w/ MoT, Disc, Bloodcurdling Roar, Golden Eye, Spell Familiar and Dragonhelm – 230pts Troops: 35x Chaos Marauders w/ MoT, Shields, Standard Bearer and Musician – 212pts 35x Chaos Marauders w/ MoT, Shields, Standard Bearer and Musician – 212pts 18x Warriors w/ MoT, Halberds, Standard Bearer + Banner of Rage and Musician – 361pts Special: Chaos Chariot w/ MoT – 140pts Chaos Chariot w/ MoT – 140pts Rare: Hellcannon – 205pts Total – 1500pts Warriors upped to 18 and given halberds for a bit of flavour, working alongside the chariots as an extra hammer unit to work with the marauders. Banner of Rage added for extra killyness. Hammer unit. Second unit of marauders added, same as the first. Anvil units. Deiton & Chariots: See 1k pts. Hellcannon: My favourite WoC unit. It's a daemon-cannon that spits out fireballs. Who couldn't love that? It can also do some pretty heavy damage too. Looking to target meaty horde units or to soften up units of a chariot charge/warrior charge. 2000pts: Lords: Lord Deiton the Infernal - Lvl 4 Chaos Sorcerer w/ MoT, Disc, Bloodcurdling Roar, Third-Eye of Tzeentch, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation and Infernal Puppet – 450pts Heroes: Exalted Hero BSB w/ MoT, Shield, Biting Blade, Armour of Fortune, Necrotic Phylactery and Stream of Corruption – 220pts Troops: 35x Chaos Marauders w/ MoT, Shields, Standard Bearer and Musician – 212pts 35x Chaos Marauders w/ MoT, Shields, Standard Bearer and Musician – 212pts 19x Warriors w/ MoT, Shields, Standard Bearer + Lichebone Pennant and Musician – 356pts Special: Chaos Chariot w/ MoT – 140pts Rare: Hellcannon – 205pts Hellcannon – 205pts Total – 2000pts This is where it got difficult. So much choice, so few points to spend. I love the idea of twin-hellcannons at 2k, but I also love the idea of a lord-level wizard. Then there's the must-have BSB... Warriors given back their shields and stripped of the rage banner, upped to 19 to be joined by the BSB running 5x4. Marauders: See 1.5kpta Chariot is now alone, since I needed to cut one for some points. Thought about removing it but unsure of what to replace it with, since both my hellcannons leave me without the space for a warshrine unitl 2250pts. Hellcannons are paired for extra love. Warriors given MR(1) banner cos I had 15pts spare and it might come in handy to have a 5+ ward against direct magic attacks. BSB joinig them is mainly tooled for survival. The armour + MoT gives him a solid ward save, the blade gives him some bite in CC, the phylactery makes him immune to the character sniping lore of death and the stream allows him to bathe would-be challengers in nice warm vomit. Deiton is also tooled for defence. Seeing as 2k heralds the dawn of the big guys, I figured that if I still want a disc sorc. he's gunna have to be able to take a hit. He has a solid combination of saves, boasting a 2+ AS and 3+ ward, as well as the puppet to take advantage of miscasts and the third-eye in case that Shadow Slann's Pit of Shades looks a bit jucier than my Gateway, or if Teclis' Dwellers Below would look nicer cast on him rather than by him. Now, i've made a few 1k and 1.5k lists, but this is my first 2k list, so it might not be as strong as it could be. NOTE: All lists are meant for friendly level play through to non-tournament competative play, although it would be great if they're tournament level too. |
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| Brad | Sep 24 2010, 07:15 AM Post #2 |
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You should change this rule to no allying with Nurgle. Tzeentch and Nurgle are traditional opposites, as are Khorne and Slaanesh. Also, if you're going for fluff-based self-imposed rules, you should make sure your units are in multiples of nine (Tzeentch's sacred number). |
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| Deiton the Infernal | Sep 24 2010, 07:29 AM Post #3 |
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Slave
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It's not fully fluff based, which is why there aren't multiples of 9 everywhere and why I can ally with Nurgle, it's just the self-imposed stuff that i'm sticking to. Perhaps my decision to allow Nurgle and Slaanesh is based more off opinion. Khorne hates magic, so he's out for me, I detest Slaanesh (even in 40k I won't use anything Slaaneshy) and that leaves Nurgle, who is a rival with Tzeentch, ultimately leaving me with no possible chaos allies bar undivided and Tzeentch. Nurgle and Slaanesh aren't too competative nowadays, and since Khorne isn't a big fan of magic in a predominantly wizard army, they're the only too I could reasonably ally with. On the 9 topic, I want my army to be competative, not completely fluffy to the point where I can only play on a friendly level without getting trounced. |
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| Rimmz | Sep 24 2010, 09:20 AM Post #4 |
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The Chosen
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2 Hellcannon'ss is overkill. It sounds like a good idea but its not. You get diminishing returns on the 2nd Hellcannon. You end up not having enough targets to shoot at by turn 3 or 4 and then the Hellcannon's just sit around. I tried running 2 at 3k and they dont work that well in pairs. 1 is definitely worth the 205 pts, the 2nd one is not. 2 have a hard time making up their points. I should also point out that if your rule is to never have more non casters than casters and your characters have to be marked Tzeentch you are basically limiting yourself to 2 characters if you take a Sorcerer lord. Since you cant duplicate spells if one is a lord that's 4 of the 6 spells used. Also consider that 2 of the 6 Tzeentch spells are pretty much crap. (Baleful Transmogrification and Call to Glory) RAW a BSB can allow a unit or character to re-roll the Baleful roll and if the CTG is dispelled, which it will be, that's 100 VP's for your opponent. You dont really need 2 Anvil units because you dont have enough hammers to make use of them. I would say do 1 of 2 things. Either convert the 2 blocks of Marauders into a 24ish block of Warriors (just as tough if not tougher) or run a 40 man block of Marauders and use the points for something else. If you go with a single block of either Marauders or Warriors consider the blasted standard it gives the entire unit 4+ ward against shooting. You can also give the Collar of Khorne to your BSB or if that bothers you too much use the MR2 talisman out of the main book (although its 5 more points and doesn't give a ward save) If you give the unit MR2 it gets a 4+ ward against magic as well. It makes the easiest way to kill the unit in combat which when you are talking Chaos Warriors is not the easiest thing to do. Also if you are going to use warriors as a hammer unit run them 6 wide not enough killy 5 wide. |
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| Alric | Sep 24 2010, 01:01 PM Post #5 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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Like Brad said ,if you are going to make rules on allies then Slaanesh would be your natural ally , Nurgle would not be your ally , Khorne would be your conditional ally. I guess you already know that Nurgle is Tzeentchs diametric opposite , not Khorne. I only point this out since you do have it as part of what you are doing. Khorne and his followers seek death , bloody death even more. "The only way to gain favor with him (Khorne) is by killing - enemies or friends ,all dead are equal in the eyes of Khorne. The only way to incur his displeasure is by not killing." Khorne does believe in using magic weapons and armor ,he just abhorres the use of magic to cause death and destruction. In 3rd ed. 'Slaves to Darkness' Khorne armies would have chaos Sorcerers in them to augment magic saving throws. Nurgle is about stagnation , rot and decay , Tzeentch is about change the diametric opposite of Nurgle. Slaanesh is about "the pursuit of hedonistic pleasure ", which is the diametric opposite of Khorne pain and death. Enemies and allies of the 4 chaos powers are based on what each pursues and worships not to what degree each uses magic. |
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| angelizer | Sep 24 2010, 07:29 PM Post #6 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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If Hellcannon run out of targets you can always throw it into the battle. Unbreakable monster with T6 and S5 attacks (and thunderstomp, of course) may be very handy ;) |
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| Rimmz | Sep 24 2010, 10:25 PM Post #7 |
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The Chosen
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Yes but not 205 points handy. The HC is not unkillable, Besides if you advance with your army, which you will, the Hellcannon will be 2 to 3 turns behind your army and at a 6" march cant catch up. |
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| IceHell | Sep 24 2010, 10:47 PM Post #8 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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Well... no. As the FAQ clearly states:
So if you play it right, the worst that can happen is a 5 point horde marauder disappearing... it's a pretty nice enhancement, and also the only spell for tzeentch you're able to cast into a combat. You are completely right about the baleful though, that's pretty much useless any way you look at it, you'll usualy net more kills with a flickering fire |
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| Rimmz | Sep 25 2010, 12:33 PM Post #9 |
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The Chosen
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Missed that in the FAQ good call. Its still not a great spell though. The EH it makes is unmarked with a sword and board. Not 100% useless now but not great and not as good as the other spells in the lore, |
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| IceHell | Sep 25 2010, 05:07 PM Post #10 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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As I said, not great, but pretty much the only tzeentch spell you'll be casting into combat. You'll want this on your lvl 4 and not on your lvl 2 if you ever go for all six spells. |
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