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Question about Father of Blades magic weapon
Topic Started: May 2 2011, 10:56 PM (462 Views)
AnomalyOfAwesome
The Chosen
How does Father of Blades work when dealing with enemies that get to reroll misses? Say, a High Elf hero attacks us, and rolls two ones. Do they count as hits (since he is being hit) and thus no reroll, or do they count as misses, since he missed his intended target?
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sometimesafish
The Chosen
I would say that since he has ASF, he will re-roll first; because his 'to hit' rolls haven't technically been determined until affter that. After that any 1s will hit him.

Alternatly, you could try to argue that whoevers turn it is can decide the order the reroll/hit yourself effect happens... although I would have a hard time swallowing that.

Basically, I feel that the the HE's to hit roll isn't done until after the re-roll, therefore the father of blades effect comes into play once re-rolls are complete.
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Benaiah
Member Avatar
The Chosen
I agree with the above post. The effect wouldn't count until the re-rolls are resolved since he hasn't hit or missed yet technically after the first roll.

Hope this helps!
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phierlihy
The Chosen
In the description of the Faather of Blades, it describes a roll of '1' is not a miss but the weilder hits himself instead. So he should not get to reroll his 1's.
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Unuhexium
The Chosen
I'd avoid using the background text as a basis for rules interpretations. It's not meant to be used like that. The actual rules are full of key words where as the background text is just there to give you a theatrical feeling. You risk opening a can of worms like the flame war around Rending Sword in 7th ed.

Following my own argument about key words, I would say that a 1 is a hit, just not on the right model.
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sometimesafish
The Chosen
It says exactly " any 'to hit' roll" is directed against the blah blah.

When they roll 'to hit', they may roll a one. However, with ASF they can re-roll 'to hit' rolls, so the final result of the 'to hit' rolls is after the re-rolls. Any 1's here are what hits the attacking model.

Anywho, if you don't like this than don't play like this, just discuss with your opponent first. But I really don't see myself buying it argued any other way. My HE buddy certainly wouldn't.

Why the hell are you using this crappy sword anyway?
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AnomalyOfAwesome
The Chosen
The reason I wanted to use this "crappy sword", was to mess with a guy who was making good use of rerolls to reroll missed attacks. I was hoping I could keep the 1's from being rerolled, and actually punish him for having so many damn attacks LoL

So some say that the 1's should be rerolled, and some say that they are treated as hits and not rerolled. Any idea how to solve this?
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sometimesafish
The Chosen
Tell your buddy that his first 1's will hit himself and explain why. If he agrees than smile and play that way. :D


If he brings up the counter argument you will have to roll off or something
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HammerofThunor
Slave
[ * ]
Depends if their item lets them re-roll misses to-hit or re-roll 'to-hit' rolls. If it's the former the '1's don't "miss". If it's the latter then they can re-roll the '1's. That's the way I would play it.
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AnomalyOfAwesome
The Chosen
It's not an item that he is using. He plays Beastmen, and his Wargor, or Beastlord, or whatever the Lord Level Gor character is, was using an item that was giving him a few extra attacks, and with Primal Fury always kicking in, he got to reroll the misses thanks to receiving hatred every round. After 3 games of getting ripped apart by the dude, I finally took him down, but I had to use a Lord that was built almost exclusively to deal with him. He was all offense, no ward save for defense or anything. So I'm looking into ways to deal with him, and characters like him, but not have to custom tailor a hero just to take him out. So I was thinking of using the Father of Blades and/or the Armor of Damnation to screw with him :-p

@sometimesafish-That sounds like the best plan, as that is how I interpret it, so we will see what happens :-p
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HammerofThunor
Slave
[ * ]
I've just had a look at the specific wording in my Beastman book and it says you reroll "failed to-hit rolls". Nothing in the rulebook that I can see defines what a failed to-hit roll is (i.e. a miss).

As a Beastman player I'd say that hitting yourself should count as a failure and can therefore be rerolled ;)

You could rolloff on what a failed to-hit roll is or base it on player turn. I certainly think it's a reasonable question to ask.

Regarding the High Elf player, it specifically says in the ASF rule that you "re-roll failed misses" not "failed to-hit rolls". A roll of 1 isn't a miss. Therefore they don't reroll.
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Vermillion
Exalted Guardian
A roll of a 1 isn't a miss? :huh: Think you're a little confused there.

Way I read it is that any rolls to hot the character that are a 1 after any rerolls in the rolling to attack part are the attacks which hit the hit the attacker. This or armour of Damnation wouldn't be useful with the Father of Blades.
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