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Chosen V Warriors; Are they all they're cracked up to be?
Topic Started: May 6 2011, 04:48 AM (530 Views)
guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Ok, first of all please don't all moan at me for raising this topic AGAIN, but I do it as I can't come to a definitive answer in my head and need some advice/opinions.

I've read a lot of opinions on Chosen, and if they are worth it or not. I've also tried them a few times but are yet to be really convinced by their performances.

Basically, the crux of the matter is: Are chosen THAT MUCH better than warriors?

I conceeded IF properly set-up AND you get the required dice rolls chosen can be a monster unit. But your tying up a LOT of points in an uncertain thing.

For an allcomers army, is this really the best idea?

Please help me decide :blink:
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Maddoc
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Slave
[ * ]
Short answer, yes, but depending on how many points you are playing.

Long answer, with a points limit of 2,5k;

My warriors are 18 strong, MoK, Halberds, Shields, FC and a magic banner.

My Chosen Unit is 12 strong with a BSB. The BSB has Wailing Banner, giving the unit terror. The Chosen got MoT, Halberds, Shields, Banner of Rage and Favour on the champ.

In a tournament I've played, I got the 3+ WSv 5 out of 6 times thanks to the rerolls. I also put a warshrine there just in case. Also, the ability to give another unit a blessing is good.

Anyways, the Warriors costs 406 points and 386 (the difference is the Blasted Standard and Rapturous Standard). The Chosen unit costs 350 points.

Statswise, the Chosen has WS+1, and 6+ WSv. Not really much difference here. (They have the same amount of attacks due to the Banner of Rage). And there is a big difference, since there are 6 less models here.

The difference is the huge odds of getting the 4+WSv and Stubborn roll on the table.

The first roll (before the game starts), you reroll everything but 4, 5, 11 and 12. 4 = 8,33 %, 5 = 11,11 %, 11 = 5,66 % and 12 = 2,78 %. As you can see, the odds are not in your favour, but think of it this way. You either get +1 T, +1 S, +1, +1 ASv or 3+ WSv and Stubborn!

Not bad...
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chiram
The Chosen
well all oponents will go out of the way of this unit if used correctly , thus diverting enemy troops to a side in which you can control the enemy more in.
So that eventualy they will get in combat.
another good tactic is making the enemy come to you when using chosen.
bunker em up with a warshrine or a second if allowed and a hellcannon.
A lvl 4 tzeentch and for the rest some fast cave ( min core points ) to hunt them up.
damage em so bad they'lle have to come to you and with the proper items all you bunker units should have a decent save against magic and shooting ( about a 3+ )
adding some lvl 2 with puppet and black tongue is also nice to counter enemy magic and helping you're cause even more.
and when they're within range kabam chosen blast.

and who said chaos can't bunker? :P
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chiram
The Chosen
Maddoc
May 6 2011, 05:12 AM
Short answer, yes, but depending on how many points you are playing.

Long answer, with a points limit of 2,5k;

My warriors are 18 strong, MoK, Halberds, Shields, FC and a magic banner.

My Chosen Unit is 12 strong with a BSB. The BSB has Wailing Banner, giving the unit terror. The Chosen got MoT, Halberds, Shields, Banner of Rage and Favour on the champ.

In a tournament I've played, I got the 3+ WSv 5 out of 6 times thanks to the rerolls. I also put a warshrine there just in case. Also, the ability to give another unit a blessing is good.

Anyways, the Warriors costs 406 points and 386 (the difference is the Blasted Standard and Rapturous Standard). The Chosen unit costs 350 points.

Statswise, the Chosen has WS+1, and 6+ WSv. Not really much difference here. (They have the same amount of attacks due to the Banner of Rage). And there is a big difference, since there are 6 less models here.

The difference is the huge odds of getting the 4+WSv and Stubborn roll on the table.

The first roll (before the game starts), you reroll everything but 4, 5, 11 and 12. 4 = 8,33 %, 5 = 11,11 %, 11 = 5,66 % and 12 = 2,78 %. As you can see, the odds are not in your favour, but think of it this way. You either get +1 T, +1 S, +1, +1 ASv or 3+ WSv and Stubborn!

Not bad...

quick response here the but you do roll before adding the bsb to the unit right?
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sometimesafish
The Chosen
I only use them in games >3000, below that I just stick to warriors. I also never use them against Skaven... you can bet an IF 13th spell will wipe them off the board.

The perfectly logical and mathematically sound reason I don't use them under 3000k is because.... um.... probably cuz I spent the points on trolls or hellcannons or something. :rolleyes:
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Leth Shyish'phak
The Chosen
Your Chosen unit isn't big enough, I'm not talking about a massive horde or anything, I use a unit of 21 (MoT, WB, FotG, halberds) and find that they're highly effective. If you go for the defensive boosts, I find them to be considerably better than warriors (I only have 1 warshrine).
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Maddoc
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Slave
[ * ]
Leth Shyish'phak
May 6 2011, 06:03 PM
Your Chosen unit isn't big enough, I'm not talking about a massive horde or anything, I use a unit of 21 (MoT, WB, FotG, halberds) and find that they're highly effective. If you go for the defensive boosts, I find them to be considerably better than warriors (I only have 1 warshrine).

I field them 6 wide to get in a bunch of attacks. And you don't need more of them when they almost never die (thanks to the WSv) :P I can understand the point if you are trying to remove the enemies steadfast, but in most cases, you will win combat.
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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Well, I tried out the following unit last night:

17 chosen+MoT+shields+fc+fav o gods+wailing banner (bsb was also in the unit ;) ).

They were part of my 3k list fighting against skaven.

For their initial roll I got +1 strength and then from the warshrine +1 attack.
They then proceeded to cut a bloody swathe through 50 slaves and then 40 plauge monks with plauge priest. They still had 6 models left at the end of the game. They did great :P

What it did prove to me was that chosen don't need the 3+ ward save to be awesome.
I think I may like them ;)
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ThePilch
The Chosen
I'ev always found the +1A to be the biggest helper for chosen. My chosen are similar to yours GA, but I use 7x2 chosen with a BSB in (so 13), banner of rage, and i aim for +1 A on the roll.

They tear through everything!

Pilch
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Eta
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Exalted Guardian
Maddoc
May 6 2011, 05:12 AM

The first roll (before the game starts), you reroll everything but 4, 5, 11 and 12. 4 = 8,33 %, 5 = 11,11 %, 11 = 5,66 % and 12 = 2,78 %. As you can see, the odds are not in your favour, but think of it this way. You either get +1 T, +1 S, +1, +1 ASv or 3+ WSv and Stubborn!

Not bad...

That is not correct rules wise. The first roll only affects the Chosen, a character that is inside the unit does not benefit from it - vice versa, the Chosen unit and thus the result on the chart does not benefit from any rules (such as Terror) the character has.
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Tome
Seeker of the Winds
Eta
May 15 2011, 12:53 AM
Maddoc
May 6 2011, 05:12 AM

The first roll (before the game starts), you reroll everything but 4, 5, 11 and 12. 4 = 8,33 %, 5 = 11,11 %, 11 = 5,66 % and 12 = 2,78 %. As you can see, the odds are not in your favour, but think of it this way. You either get +1 T, +1 S, +1, +1 ASv or 3+ WSv and Stubborn!

Not bad...

That is not correct rules wise. The first roll only affects the Chosen, a character that is inside the unit does not benefit from it - vice versa, the Chosen unit and thus the result on the chart does not benefit from any rules (such as Terror) the character has.

The Banner may be on the BSB but, thanks to errata stating that the Chosen roll is made after deployment, it does give the entire unit Terror. Which does count for the reroll.

Still, I'd stick with using the Wailing Banner on the Chosen unit and the Banner of Rage on the BSB, just to avoid any books that might get lobbed at your head.
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Eta
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Exalted Guardian
Tome
May 15 2011, 01:07 AM
Eta
May 15 2011, 12:53 AM
Maddoc
May 6 2011, 05:12 AM

The first roll (before the game starts), you reroll everything but 4, 5, 11 and 12. 4 = 8,33 %, 5 = 11,11 %, 11 = 5,66 % and 12 = 2,78 %. As you can see, the odds are not in your favour, but think of it this way. You either get +1 T, +1 S, +1, +1 ASv or 3+ WSv and Stubborn!

Not bad...

That is not correct rules wise. The first roll only affects the Chosen, a character that is inside the unit does not benefit from it - vice versa, the Chosen unit and thus the result on the chart does not benefit from any rules (such as Terror) the character has.

The Banner may be on the BSB but, thanks to errata stating that the Chosen roll is made after deployment, it does give the entire unit Terror. Which does count for the reroll.

Still, I'd stick with using the Wailing Banner on the Chosen unit and the Banner of Rage on the BSB, just to avoid any books that might get lobbed at your head.

But the army book tells us that characters don't benefit from the initial roll. So why should the unit benefit from them? Btw, not the unit is causing terror, only the BSB is. The wording on the chart is that if the unit or a model within the unit causes Fear / Terror, you may reroll the result. When the BSB does not benefit from the roll, you cannot use his ability to cause Terror to reroll a 10 or 11.
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Maddoc
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Slave
[ * ]
Eta
May 14 2011, 06:14 PM
Tome
May 15 2011, 01:07 AM
Eta
May 15 2011, 12:53 AM
Maddoc
May 6 2011, 05:12 AM

The first roll (before the game starts), you reroll everything but 4, 5, 11 and 12. 4 = 8,33 %, 5 = 11,11 %, 11 = 5,66 % and 12 = 2,78 %. As you can see, the odds are not in your favour, but think of it this way. You either get +1 T, +1 S, +1, +1 ASv or 3+ WSv and Stubborn!

Not bad...

That is not correct rules wise. The first roll only affects the Chosen, a character that is inside the unit does not benefit from it - vice versa, the Chosen unit and thus the result on the chart does not benefit from any rules (such as Terror) the character has.

The Banner may be on the BSB but, thanks to errata stating that the Chosen roll is made after deployment, it does give the entire unit Terror. Which does count for the reroll.

Still, I'd stick with using the Wailing Banner on the Chosen unit and the Banner of Rage on the BSB, just to avoid any books that might get lobbed at your head.

But the army book tells us that characters don't benefit from the initial roll. So why should the unit benefit from them? Btw, not the unit is causing terror, only the BSB is. The wording on the chart is that if the unit or a model within the unit causes Fear / Terror, you may reroll the result. When the BSB does not benefit from the roll, you cannot use his ability to cause Terror to reroll a 10 or 11.

I see no further point in discussing this. Give the Chosen unit the Wailing Banner, end of discussion.
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