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Samael, chosen of Slaanesh; Destandor made me do it
Topic Started: Aug 8 2011, 04:23 AM (293 Views)
Samael
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The Chosen
Samael, beloved of Slaanesh about 500pts, the current prince is over costed :D

Samael is a daemon prince of Slaanesh. Rumoured to be born of the Elven race, Samael believes in perfection itself. He tries for perfection and chases beauty. It was his love of beauty that lead to the ruination of an Ind city, as he coverted it’s princess. In battle he is an enraged angel. His glaive carving through foe, whilst his seraphim strike at those left in his wake.

M:8 WS:8 BS:0 S:5 T:5 W:4 I8 A:5 Ld:9

Mark of slaanesh
Level 3 wizard and may choose a mixture of Lore of Slaanesh and Lore of Death spells. However you must declare the how many spells you are taking from each lore before rollingTerror
Fly
Stubborn
The will of chaos
Always strikes first

Devine beauty
to look upon Samael is to look upon perfection, those that do find their minds wandering to his divinity and away from such matters as lifting a blade or self preservation
Enemy models in base contact with Samael are at half weapon skill and initiative

Glaive of seduction
Samael’s Glaive is covered in runes of power that saps the will of the enemy and a scratch from it will render them to Samael’s will
Magical weapon. Poisoned (5+), unless the target has immune to psychology

The damned Seraphim
Said to be angels of order enslaved by his beauty the seraphim follow Samael and strike at his foe, hoping that such acts will grant them a smile of gratitude from their master
Samael has an addition 2 strength 4 attacks resolved at I6 WS5. These do not benefit from his always strike first.

Beloved of Slaanesh
Samael is beloved of Slaanesh and one of her favoured princes. As such she has granted him many blessings rending him all but impervious to harm
Samael has a 4+ ward save

EDIT
Hatred of the brute
an army containing Samael may not include any models with the mark of Khorne

Samael

Need to strip and repaint him as well as change his glaive to a chaos one
Posted Image

EDIT 2
Stats changed due to feedback, thanks for the help.
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Destandor
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Jailor of Hated Magic
I have no experience in daemon princes, but I feel he should be a little more like one such (particularly, be stubborn instead of unbreakable).Another thing I think should be changed is that, just to make it more simple, everyone in base contact with Samael is at half WS and I. I also feel the glaive of seduction should only work on characters, other seapons with an effect similar to his usually work that way.
Also, those seraphim seems qyite weak. Are they really S5?

Some thoughts about him. Of course, most of this is nerfs, so perhaps his cost should get lower if you use these.
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Tome
Seeker of the Winds
Chaos Lord stat-line and abilities with Sorcerer Lord casting? Yeah, a bit over the top there.

Drop a few Wizard levels. This guy can outfight most things in the game already, being a level 4 Wizard as well is just silly. Compare him to Archaon, who has a slightly better stat-line, costs over 100 points more and only casts as a Level 3.

Divine Beauty is... well, pretty much everything is going to be hitting him on 5's with this. Even dedicated combat characters. And that's before we get to the halved Initiative, which makes his ASF rule just plain ridiculous. Pick ONE of those stats, not both, and even then you've still got an extremely strong ability.

The Glaive of Seduction's ability is basically that of the the Whip of Subversion. Combining this with ASF is nasty enough already, he doesn't need the +1S.

Tone down the stats on the Damned Seraphim. They're hitting with a better stat-line that a Bloodletter. Give them something more in line with a Daemonette.

The Ward Save is pushing things. Either reduce it back to normal Daemon Prince levels, or tone down the rest of his abilities to be more sensible.
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Samael
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The Chosen
Thanks for the feedback. I always plan high and reduce stats, rather than starting low and increase the power.

My reasons
stats
The stats are almost identical to a standards daemon prince except for +1 initiative and leadership

He also has ASF as well as unbreakable instead of stubborn

The ASF and +1 initiative are to represent the mark of Slaanesh, since the normal rules for mark of Slaanesh are a waste of points on a deamonprince

+1 ld and unbreakable are to better represent a daemon prince than Ld8 stubborn. Stunties are more likely to stick around than an immortal daemon prince.

As such he has unbreakable. Samael knows he can not die, rather just goes back to the warp for a while

+1Ld is to bring him on par with other lord level characters (Vampire Lords, Beast Lords, Elves, dwarves)

divine beauty
This is the old soporific musk rules. I could reduce it to models in base contact, which means 2nd and subsequent ranks are not effected

glaive of seduction
I wanted a magical weapon, nothing else. It felt wrong not having one. Will replace it with posion.

The damned Seraphim
Based on warrior families, expect I got two S5 attacks, with a WS and I, rather than 1 S5 hit before blows are struck.

I will reduce them to I6 WS6 S4

Beloved of Slaanesh
A 5+ ward save doesn’t work for a single model that cannot join units. 4+ gives it some chance

Hatred of the brute
I like my old fluff when Slaanesh didn’t like the brutish approach of knorne

magic
Lore of Death seems slaaneshi to me. The caress, soulblight, someone laughing to death. Which is why I said he could mix the two lores, like skaven can do.

If there is a lot of hatred for it then I will drop it to may take lore of death or lore of slaanesh
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Destandor
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Jailor of Hated Magic
If he is unbreakable (like common daemons) then he should also have unstable, I think. Better to stick with stubborn (although I do agree DPs should really have Ld 9)
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Samael
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The Chosen
I'll go with stubborn Ld 9.

I'll put all the updates in the first post later today

For the magic weapon, what about posion (5+) except for ITP units?

Representing the strong willed ignoring the drugs that coat the surface of the glavie
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Destandor
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Jailor of Hated Magic
Quote:
 

For the magic weapon, what about posion (5+) except for ITP units?

Sure, that might work, quite fluffy and not that overpowered I think.

I don't mind the mixing of lores, as long as you roll and don't pick spells.
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Tome
Seeker of the Winds
Samael
Aug 9 2011, 05:40 PM
I'll go with stubborn Ld 9.

I'll put all the updates in the first post later today

For the magic weapon, what about posion (5+) except for ITP units?

Representing the strong willed ignoring the drugs that coat the surface of the glavie

Those both sound like pretty good changes.

The Divine Beauty + ASF combo is still very powerful, incidentally, and makes him a very tough combat character. If you're going to keep it that way, I'd bump him down to a Level 3 Wizard at least.
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Eta
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Exalted Guardian
Tome
Aug 10 2011, 01:36 AM


The Divine Beauty + ASF combo is still very powerful, incidentally, and makes him a very tough combat character. If you're going to keep it that way, I'd bump him down to a Level 3 Wizard at least.

Isn't the very same combo possible to be taken by a DoC Daemon Prince? And how many people field those? With only T5 and a 4+ ward save, Samael is rather squishy, too. My sorcerers / lords are much better protected.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
I'm not sure you can put T5 with a 4+ Ward save in the "squishy" category. If anything is significantly better defended than that, it's a tank. That doesn't make the T5, 4+ Ward squishy (I can make the math-hammer argument that for most attacks, T5, 4+ Ward trumps T4, 3+ Ward, so unless your Chaos Sorc is also packing a 2+ armor save, I don't know about "much better protected").
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Bezerker
Bezerker
I still think he is slightly over priced ,but now he at least looks reasonably fair. The combination of ASF, Divine beauty, and 4+ ward and those seraphim this guy is a total bad ass. I'd say bump up to around 600 or so and this guy would be legit.
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Eta
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Exalted Guardian
rothgar13
Aug 10 2011, 08:59 AM
I'm not sure you can put T5 with a 4+ Ward save in the "squishy" category. If anything is significantly better defended than that, it's a tank. That doesn't make the T5, 4+ Ward squishy (I can make the math-hammer argument that for most attacks, T5, 4+ Ward trumps T4, 3+ Ward, so unless your Chaos Sorc is also packing a 2+ armor save, I don't know about "much better protected").

Of course my sorcerer has a 2+ armour save. My lord's save is even better - with T5.


The current price tag for Samael seems OKish. A dedicated combat lord will shred him, weaker heroes should fall relatively fast (depending on whether they pack a 1+/2+ armour save or not). Together with his movement and casting abilities, this character should be a good allrounder.
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Samael
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The Chosen
T5 4++ is squishy whem you are on your own

Dwarf heroes often out preform my beloved daemon prince.
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