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| Hinge's Ramblings | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 16 2011, 01:26 PM (13,974 Views) | |
| DarkSchneider | Mar 12 2012, 01:15 AM Post #136 |
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Clanlord
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So glad to be back on cotec after a while and find some really good stuff from you. Cheers :) |
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| Hyperfreak | Mar 13 2012, 10:04 AM Post #137 |
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Slave
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Amazing write ups. I am just getting into warhammer so am picking up some extremely good tips. What do you usually do vs Vamp Counts? Since you like to pick battles that you can crush asap and they excell at bogging and preventing flanks if they hoard and deploy it well. |
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| Hinge | Mar 14 2012, 03:51 AM Post #138 |
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Exalted Guardian
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The old VC was much more problematic with Dance and IoN spam combined with the ability to generate extra power dice. While I am still feeling my way against the new vc (have 4 games against them now, 1 in a tourney), I am finding the IoN not as problematic. You may have to spend an extra turn or two, but VC troops still die in droves. My flail marauders are less useful in this match up, so I usually go narrower (5 wide v. 6-7 wide) for more static rez to deal with the chaff. Chaff is where VC can really excel. Loads of cheap, maneuverable units with some ethereal troops sprinkled in. My games against the new VC have featured picking off his chaff (it is a big plus that they cannot flee), avoiding the uber killy VC Lord, and looking for that one charge on a point scoring unit to shred late in the game. All the wins have been very narrow so far and I will not deny that I caught a break or two. |
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| Soren | Mar 14 2012, 08:10 AM Post #139 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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Has your list changed at all since the beginning thread? |
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| Hinge | Mar 14 2012, 09:02 AM Post #140 |
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Exalted Guardian
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I have droped the trolls and a cuple of Marauders in favor of a second chariot and a second unit of dogs. |
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| herozero | Mar 15 2012, 05:42 AM Post #141 |
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The Chosen
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Hinge I have a feeling you and I are running fairly parallel lists, i've found trolls to be sub par as well. Pairs of chariots work phenomenally when ran as tag team. 2 units of dogs is a very sweet spot. Ive separated the knights down to two units of 6 with only banner and musician and have had much better results. Have you tried more marauder horsemen ? I am running 2 units of 6 with MoS, Flails, Musician and find that they are just indispensable in games against vc and gobbos( or any other army with crap tons of fast chaff) the more games i get in with 8th the more I realize we cant form a battle line and walk forward anymore, its about picking the fight and overwhelming it. Its truly the end times when Warriors of Chaos get out fought in straight up battles. |
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| rothgar13 | Mar 17 2012, 05:54 AM Post #142 |
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Clanlord
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Numbers do count for a lot in this game, so I'm not terribly surprised about that. And we can win a straight-up fight... with numbers of our own. |
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| KellyW | Apr 3 2012, 09:23 AM Post #143 |
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Slave
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Hinge, Why use Tzeentch magic??? I have heard the hype about gateway, but it seems to random to me. You need to get 2 lucky/average rolls, and that dosent happen all of the time. You could either get 2 st9 hits or 9 st2 hits, and neither of those will do you much good in most situations. And what do you find in the Pandemondium spell? I never thought of it much, but you said in your orcs and goblins game that that spell wins more games the rest of the spells combined. What do you mean by that Thanks p.s. I have really enjoyed reading this forum, and i would love to see a new battle report soon! :) |
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| herozero | Apr 3 2012, 12:37 PM Post #144 |
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The Chosen
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Tz magic is so all over the place. Infernal gateway is the big spell everyone fears but really its pandemoniun that wins games. Why? 8th is about steadfast blocks of troops. There is a significant drop on passing a steadfast ld7 compared to an 8. Those odds of failure go way up for ld 6 or lower since you can't use generals ld. Pandamonium also stops the 4+ dice chucking at one spell since at that points you almost assure one miscast per turn. With Infernal puppet those miscasts hurt pretty bad. Also pandomonium has no range. Flickering fire isn't bad for chaff removal or to nerf a regen Treason of tz is overly good one non ITP units of which their are plenty. Hit a horde of 60 clan rats and watch it evaporate a rank. Hit great weapon weilding single wound units and watch them half themselves. |
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| Hinge | Apr 4 2012, 01:56 AM Post #145 |
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Exalted Guardian
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@KellyW- Tzeetch brings many useful spells. One of the advantages of Tzeetch is that it is very offensive oriented, with Flick, Trans, Treason, and Gateway all ranged damaging spells. The new BRB Lore’s tend to emphasize buffing and hexing, which can leave my opponent with little to do early in the game. When the clash happens, I can always use my opponents spells if need be due to third eye. Here are some comments on the lore: Gateway- This spell has only really won one game for me. My first target priority is usually single models, such as monsters or characters out on their own. Then, a much more moderate roll is useful while a good roll will likely kill the target easily. Since single model units tend to be high value, this puts pressure on my opponent to dispel. After all, what monster likes 7 st 7 hits? The big thing is I am not depending on that 1 in 12 chance of removing the unit. I often use the spell as more of a threat, making a bit of a production in setting aside the PD I need to get the spell off, which usually leads me to get some “lesser” spells off. Panda- This is the real winner in the lore. Winning fights is usually not my problem, it is breaking steadfast. This goes a long way to helping since there is often a two point differential between a units leadership and the generals. Even against an army like VC, it is invaluable. Leadership checks to march are made before any attempt to dispel on the following turn. Since most VC units have crappy leadership, this can really slow down the VC army. VC is the new king of chaff, anything you can do to hinder its use is a positive. The fact that an army has to dispel the spell on his turn before any other casting is a big plus. At a minimum, it eats two of his PD. He may fail, which will pretty much shut down his phase. He may forget. I always put a marker down in the middle of the table. In early tourney games, I will often remind my opponent the first time but after that he is on his own. Late tourney on high tables, it is up to my opponent to keep track if it is up. I figure I have done more than the rules require when I put an easily identifiable marker in the middle of the table. Finally, I have a Hell Cannon. At -1 leadership/auto panic, you can often scare off big tar pit units of crappy troops early in the game. Flick- good MM with low casting value. Flaming helps against regening monsters (hydras and Abombs) Treason- Situational but can be great. Spell eats HE elites. Trans- I am using it against VC more and more. VC will often let Panda through since they do not take break tests. The low base ld of VC chaff and terrorgeist make them susceptible to this spell. Other then that, rarely used. Call to Glory (?) - I cannot even remember the name of this spell since I never use it. I know there is the tactic of casting it, getting in a challenge with a killer lord, attacking then dispelling before return attacks. Seems a bit dodgy to me and I choose not to use the spell in this way. Using a typical Skaven opponent as an example, I set up a rotation of Flick, Panda, Gateway puts the skaven in a tough bind. Flick at an Abomb will not kill it but does hit with a flaming attack. If he lets that through and I wound, I may choose to go all in and gun for the IF gateway to finish the abomb off. If he stops it and conserves the scroll for Gateway, I throw Panda, again, making a production of the dice I will use for Gateway. An HC round on a Slave tarpit will see them leave the table, so you will not have to try and grind through the unit. With only a roll of a ten needed to get Gateway off, I can hit it on three dice 50% of the time, I can go big or nickel and dime as the PD dictate. |
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| Hinge | Apr 4 2012, 01:57 AM Post #146 |
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Exalted Guardian
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I will put togather a Bat Rep this weekend. Right now I am relly trying to decide what type of list I will bring to Adeopticon. I really am tempted to do something a bit whacky. Hinge |
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| matsemann | Apr 4 2012, 04:31 PM Post #147 |
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The Chosen
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Just wanted to say that I completely agree with your rundown of the Tzeentch lore. We have 2 rounds at the beginning where we basically just move our troops into position. Tzeentch is all about being offensive in the magic phase and this means we can actually lay some pressure on our opponents in the first rounds of the game. I also agree on that Pandemonium is perhaps the best spell we have. In addition to skaven who really suffers from low ld, ogres are also a great target for the pandemonium/hellcannon combo. |
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| DarkSchneider | Apr 4 2012, 04:56 PM Post #148 |
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Clanlord
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Real problem of tzeench is if you don't get Panda AND Gateway.......you must have those two spells to make it work. So sad to have an useless spell and two that are so situational.... |
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| 3Fingers | Apr 6 2012, 01:10 AM Post #149 |
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Slave
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Great read, I've really enjoyed it and to be honest it's probably increased my enjoyment of Fantasy as a whole as I now pay far more attention to the movement phase. I've still been a little reluctant to try my Sorc Lord on foot but I'm going to give it a go this Saturday. I guess the thing I've worried about in the past is not having the freedom of movement I've become accustomed to, but hopefully with a bit more attention to detail in the movement phase that won't be an issue. The only thing that's been preying on my mind is the quote below. Would the Biting Blade and Tal of Preservation not take his Magic Items to 55pts? Which as an Exalted Hero would be too many. Am I missing something? :-/
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| rothgar13 | Apr 6 2012, 01:11 AM Post #150 |
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Clanlord
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Biting Blade is 5 points for WoC. Check the armybook. |
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4:46 PM Jul 11