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Hinge's Ramblings
Topic Started: Aug 16 2011, 01:26 PM (13,979 Views)
conjoy
Exalted Guardian
Hi Hinge,

Can you please explain fish-hooking step-by-step?

I had great success with my marauder anvil, a Helcannon and clipping in my game on the weekend. Was a last minute victory where I was hanging on all game, he made so many rediculous charges, rolling 10, 11 and 12 for distances required!

The more I play the more I like the idea of MSU and wish I had more tactical options in my army - seriously considering a second unit of Marauder Horse for instance. My MVP was my bunker unit of 10 Tz Marauders, whose turn 5 charge with BSB and lvl 1 Sorc general turned the tide against a nasty Dwarf Warrior unit with Great Weapons.
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Hinge
Exalted Guardian
Jonadams
Sep 22 2011, 10:17 PM
Firstly, great thread!

I've read through this a number of times in passing, but couldn't sleep lat night, so read it properly, and ran an MSU army today in a game. I have to admit, I didn't think my 10 Chosen would survive.....3 died all game! (made 9/10 ward saves against a mindrazored unit!) The play style is very different from the big units, grind them to death, but I have to say very enjoyable. Will definitely be running similar lists again. So thank you for posting this topic, it actually made me think about my army properly, and has increased the enjoyment of the game!

Jon

Jonadams-

Thank you. You should find the "style" both challenging and enjoyable.


your post reminded me I am due for another installment. Maybe an article on builings or a Bat Rep from Adepticon. Hmmm

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conjoy
Exalted Guardian
I am also really keen to hear how you deal with particularly killy units?
Its only a 30ish% chance get Divine Greatness, and without deep units that have Steadfast, what do you use to anchor your combats against Swordmasters/Greatswords etc that can kill 10+ models (even Chaos Warriros) in a round?
For intance I will use an anvil of 45 Tz marauders to hold things in place, because I don't expect to be the one to charge, and need a unit thats going to hold fr a tun so I can land a flank charge.
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Hinge
Exalted Guardian
Its why I go sword and board with the Chosen. In the absence of Divine Greatness, I am shooting for the +1 To. To 5, 3+/5++ in combat makes for a very durable model. I should also have two in game rolls on the EOTG table from the shrine. If I do not get Divine Greatness, I angle for +1 armor when facing heavy hitters.

Sticking with MSU principals, you should not be standing toe to toe with opposing elites, but rather hitting them with multiple units and overwhelming them.


Hinge
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rothgar13
Member Avatar
Clanlord
I have to agree with Hinge - an MSU-style army needs its Chosen to survive first and foremost, because you don't have the bodies to spare. You can afford stuff like GW's when you're playing a more Deathstar sort of army (like mine), which is looking to slam the Chosen into a block and grind out a win.
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conjoy
Exalted Guardian
Ah, I didn't realise that your Chosen were S/S. That does make them a lot better defence wise. And I guess you can always aim for more killy rolls if thats the role you need them to play. Just seems like a waste not to go Halberds if you do get the 4+3++. But then you have other 'killy' elements.

Can you explain fish-hooking?
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Hinge
Exalted Guardian
putting a redirector in front of a frenzy unit. Not as effective as 7th ed when a frenzied unit was forced to charge (hence pulling them out of the line of battle), but it still hinders the target units movement. If he charges, you send the unit in a direction of your choosing since he is forced to overrun, which is immensly useful.

It may be used only by my group. Unfortunatly, my groups thoughts are generally in the gutter, so I suspect that this term was adopted from a common but graphic usage. I'll let you go to Urban dictionary or something to figure that out.

I find that many of the old 7th ed. tricks can still work, just harder to pull off.

Hinge
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GeneralofChaos42
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The Puppet Master
Remember MSU style of playing is difficult to master, you will take a few lumps along the way.



GoC
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
Hi, I want to share some thoughts after playing in a Regional Torunament last week (couldn't go to GT cause i was alone and the trip turned too expensive, about 400 USD/250 euros).

I played a MSU style list, just added another warshrine, no hellcannon, and Supreme was Nurgle.

First: GWs in my opinion are better than flails on small marauders unit. You just need that S5 in subsequent turns to break the eventual stead fast. Example: i managed to charge the flank of 21 miners with the marauders, i had only 2 ranks (i had to spread the unit to cover the warriors from a flank charge), and i didn't enough damage to pull off steadfast from him. Then he reformed and simply break me.

Second: I also came up with the idea of giving shields to the chosens. Without DG they're just too fragile, and a waste of points. But, adding a shield improves their survivability a lor, both against shooting and in CC. And +1 strenght is surely coming, if you play 2 warhsrines.

Third: i think a very bad match up could be VC with the uber Black Knights unit. They will charge everywhere due ti vanhel, and the Combat-Monster Vampire is.......a Monster! Setting up flank charges can be difficult also, due to ghouls, bats, vanhel etc. I haven't played against it yet, but it is very common here......


A difficult matchup i had was against dwarfs. NEVER deploy close to a flank, due to miners, and watch out for rangers. My chosen and marauders were rended useless by shooting (which also killed the bsb and the 2 warshrines.....). By the way, at the end of the game i had the warriors in CC with the anvil, and in three combat phases (39 attacks total) i hadn't done ONE wound........this, and my Sup.Sorc killed by an indirect shot from a stone thrower signed my defeat.
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conjoy
Exalted Guardian
Fish-hooking is something I already use regularly, just didn’t have your name against it.
And clipping has now become a regular part of my arsenal: anvil Marauders + Helcannon is very effective.
Marauder Horse are now one of my favourite units. With Spears or Flails and javelins they have SO much utility, just be careful of sending them against Sabertooths, WS, I, S and T all 4 really hurts with 3 attacks
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Hinge
Exalted Guardian
This post is in response to a question from dajunglebrotha I got in Deroga’s Alamo GT list thread. I did not want to hijack his thread.

Most GT’s are 2,500 points, though 2,400 and 2,200 are common. When I refer to a GT, it is generally a 5 game event with at least 50 players.

A couple basic tips:

Be very clear with your opponent on things like terrain, what you consider a cocked die, measure from model or movement tray, etc. This avoids any potential arguments. For example, I re-roll any die that is even remotely cocked. Others, use the balance a die on it or only if it is not clear. I have no problem with any particular method, but let’s be clear on we you handle it.

Set modest goals. I am not sure of your experience level, but even the most accomplished player needs some luck to win a Best Overall at a large tourney. I always shoot for a top ten finish. If this was my first tourney, my goal would be three wins. I have seen people who do well at their local GW store show up with high expectations. They then get rolled and all butt hurt. A tourney that size will attract a decent number of very good players and lists you have not seen before. I will tell you that I have learned more about the game from my losses then my wins. If you get your head handed to you, use it as a learning experience.

Take the time during the breaks to walk around and look at the armies. It is a modeling hobby and there will often be several amazing looking armies. I always get fired up to paint after attending a tourney (and my modeling skills are modest at best). Do not be afraid to ask the armies owners about techniques. You can pick up some good tips.

Read the scenarios closely. There are battle points to be earned, non-standard victory conditions, or game mechanic changes. You want to keep these in mind and figuring out how they can impact the match can be important.

Engage your opponent in conversation. Beyond common courtesy, you want to be remembered when it comes time for Best Opponent votes. Before and after for the most part. If you and your opponent have a couple of losses piled up, you can be much more casual during the game as well. If it is obvious your opponent spent some effort on his army, take the time to look it over and compliment him. If you just got your head handed to you, ask him for advice. Things like that. Also don’t sweat the small stuff. If he forgot to move that fast cav unit in the corner and has already rolled his winds of magic, let him move it. Things like that.

You will run into WAAC players or players who get bent when they lose. All I can say is that you will run into them and don’t let these people ruin your experience. Hell, I can think of a time or two that I was “that guy” and upon reflection or one of my buddies giving me a reality check, I have gone back and apologized.

Finally, if your opponent was a complete and utter jerk who you feel was ramming loose rules interpretations down your throat, playing fast and loose with movement, and provides an experience such that you never, ever want to be in the same room with, much less play that person again, talk to the Tournament Organizer. Be specific. The TO wants to provide a fun experience and they will start keeping an eye on the person.

Hinge
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
a valuable post indeed, as usual.
btw, what WAAC means?
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
WAAC = Win At All Costs.
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khorndog
The Chosen
Hinge, as always I thoroughly enjoyed that last post. Ive been trying to continue practicing with my chaos army around Chicago in order to get ready for Adepticon in April- will we be seeing you there? Id love to put a face to the name, and (hopefully) have a game against the master!

Also, have you ever played in a doubles tourney? My buddy and I are planning on playing in our first doubles tourney at Adepticon, wanted to know if you had any tips other than those for a standard tourney.

Cheers, looking forward to hearing more from you,
Nick
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Hinge
Exalted Guardian
I was actually working on a Bat Rep of an Adepticon game and should have posted in a little while.

In all likely hood, I will be attending Adepticon this upcoming year. It has some deficiencies as a tourney but is just too damn impressive to miss.

I have played in the doubles tourney the last two years, winning Best Overall two years ago and Best Sports (despite going 3-0!) last year. I enjoyed the doubles tourney. It can be just as competitive as the Grand Tourney. With that said, there is one team we have played two years in a row. The guys are a super fun game and hope to make it three years running. My partner and I have not decided what we will do this upcoming year. We like to do a common theme between the armies, so have put together new models for the tourney. The first year I took my WoC (Warriors/Beast conversions) and he modeled up a LM force that was mutated Warriors/lizards. This last year, we did Wood Elves/High Elves in an autumn theme. I believe our decision process is to get drunk at Alamo and base our decision off of some unknown random factors.

Make sure to work on lists/armies that complement each other. Also, play as an integrated force. I see so many teams playing as two separate armies. It takes some practice and if you can get some games in beforehand, I recommend it. Finally, make sure someone has some chaff units. If your opponent is playing as two separate forces, this allows you to distract one while you hammer the other.

Hinge
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