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| Khorne Sorcerers; Help with rule making | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 29 2011, 05:06 PM (989 Views) | |
| HammerofThunor | Sep 29 2011, 05:06 PM Post #1 |
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Slave
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I'm trying to do a Khorne only army for a large-ish champaign and I've found in the past it very difficult to get away with no sorcerers. However after perusing the Slaves to Darkness book it mentions that all Sorcerers who become followers of Khorne lose the ability to cast spells but retain the ability to dispel them. Is this feasible with the current rules? Allow a sorcerer to have a Mark of Khorne but it results in him not being able to cast spells. How would be the best way of doing this? Use the Sorcerer profile and have the Mark for free? Have a Lord/Hero with a bonus option to be an ex-sorcerer? Not sure what the best balance is. Has anyone tried anything similar or got better ideas? We'll probably try out the options and see which is best but wanted a head start. Or do people think you should man up and take the limitations? PS Also in StD talks about Khorne giving high technology to replace the magic so I think I'm going to include some of the new FW Chaos Dwarfs. It'll be a kind of old Mighty Empires style campaign and I'll 'find' a Chaos Dwarf City with a lord, which will allow me to recruit their engines. Also what rules do people use for Fury of the Blood God? Is it a 4+ Ward Save for spells or a 2+ Ward Save? |
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| khorndog | Sep 29 2011, 08:36 PM Post #2 |
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The Chosen
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Magic Resistence (2) means a 5+ ward if Im not mistaken; its in the rulebook under special rules, but I dont have it in front of me at the moment. As far as Khorne dispellers go, I think its as simple as taking a couple lvl 1 or 2 sorcerers and just choosing not to cast and only dispell. That would be the simplest option, or use a sorcerer and claim hes enslaved to balance out the enemy magic or whatever fluffy reason you can think of. Personally, Id man up and just go balls to the wall on melee units, and even if I lose its fluffy and entertaining :) those 2 sorcerers for 160 ish points apiece could be used to buy some MSU marauder units with GWs for khornes sake! Hope that helps, Cheers Nick |
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| HammerofThunor | Sep 30 2011, 12:03 AM Post #3 |
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Slave
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The Fury of the Blood God gives a 4+ ward save against magic AND MR(2) so is that a 2+ WS against magic? I think you might be right about just manning up. I was going to go for joint Khorne/Tzeentch but it just doesn't feel right :angry: |
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| Bonesaw | Sep 30 2011, 02:31 AM Post #4 |
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Slave
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I would take a L2, give him a scroll and maybe the spellthieving sword so it is sort of fluffy. Fury is good, as mentioned or Collar of Khorne would work too. Magic is pretty big in this edition so I would keep something in the army to deal with it, at least for a turn. Since you are not giving him a mark I`d go with death. That would be less likely to displease Khorne :) |
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| Samael | Sep 30 2011, 02:51 AM Post #5 |
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The Chosen
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There was fluff in tyhe last book about a shaman summoning a Khorne daemon before a battle to bless the tribe. Also in Daemonworld a Khorne Daemon is able to summon forth all sorts of things to aid himself (such as seas of blood). Such things fall under the realm of magic. So I can see Khorne armies that contain wizards as ong as they serve the correct purpose. Blessing the troops or cursing the enemy. So a Buff/Hex mage would fit in with the theme, where as a battle wizard full of direct damage spells wouldn't Personnally I am hoping Knorne get someting similar to warrior priests next edition, able to generate dispell dice and preform small prayers to help the troops. And I am a devoted Slaaneshi player who hates Khorne and all of his lackies. :D |
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| Tome | Sep 30 2011, 09:58 AM Post #6 |
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Seeker of the Winds
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Khorne doesn't hate Sorcery so much as he hates people not lopping their enemies' heads off with an axe. Wizards (and Psykers in 40K) can and do turn to the worship of Khorne, they just have to conduct themselves like every other Khornate cultist. Which basically means all they can do with their magic is dispel the enemy's magic and throw out the occasional melee buff. How would you do this in-game? Chaos Sorcerer Lvl2, Lore of Death, Staff of Sorcery and your choice of magic arms and armour. Have him charge into combat just like the rest of your army, never cast if you can fight instead. |
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| rothgar13 | Sep 30 2011, 10:40 AM Post #7 |
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Clanlord
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Besides, SOMEONE has to make magic axes for the Khornate faithful... |
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| snyggejygge | Sep 30 2011, 02:01 PM Post #8 |
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High Zar of Khorne
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Easy fluffy Khorne spellcaster: Exalted with Book of secrets & a dispelscroll. While he has no Mark of Khorne, he is just as good in combat as a normal Khornate character except the frenzy, his spellcasting is almost 0 & he's just there to protect against enemy spells. |
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| chiram | Sep 30 2011, 02:25 PM Post #9 |
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The Chosen
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yeah take a lvl 4 sorcerer unmarked and give him some close combat stuff and magic resistance stuff. that way khorne blessed one of his champions to laugh in the face of sorcerers and kick their behinds ( a sorcerer lord still has 3 attacks ) |
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| Blood-Spattered Angel | Oct 8 2011, 10:12 PM Post #10 |
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The Chosen
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I seem to recall old daemon summoning rules where undivided casters could summon any god's daemon (including Khorne). The fluff in Slaves to Darkness says that Khorne hates spellcasters because of the dedication required to master magic distracts from lopping people's heads off, and that Khornate followers include ex-mages who forge magic weapons for the Blood God, but otherwise don't use magic. Frankly, I have not seen this since, and Khorne's anti-magic policy has been ramped up in subsequent fluff. However, if you want to have a "Khornate" sorcerer overcome by bloodlust try Undivided Sorcerer with a magic weapon and an arcane item (Dispel Scroll/Trickster Shard/Channeling staff to boost magic def , although I like the idea of a sorcerer being corrupted by a Warrior Familiar). Bunkered in a unit carrying the Banner of Rage.The point would be to avoid magic, but pick Lore of Fire because I can imagine an enraged sorcerer casting Flaming Sword of Rhuin on his own unit. Of course if you sre really committed to the Khornate Mage thang, remember that it is perfectly legal to give the Wizard's Hat to a Khornate Chaos Lord :) |
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| confused | Oct 10 2011, 09:13 PM Post #11 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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In 7th when Frenzy was infectious between mount/rider I used to take a level 4 on Heavens equiped with the Axe of Khorne, Regen Crown and Favour of the Gods mounted on a Chariot of Khorne (his Altar of War, obviously). I only used the buffing aspect of the lore (infusing the troops with Khorne's fury ;)). All the rerolls on the lore and frenzy from the mount made the killing blow axe particularly deadly! In 8th edition I haven't found a satisfactory alternative. I guess a sorceror joining a unit of chaos warriors or knights wielding the Banner of Rage would make a good stand in for a Khorne Sorceror and his templars. The alternative is Blood Splattered Angel's suggestion of a Wizarding Hat lord (stupidity perhaps reflecting his internal conflict as spell user marked by Khorne). Rules development suggestion: Simple: allow sorceror/lordss to take Mark of Khorne for +10 points but don't use them to cast spells (just dispels/channels). Complicated: Khorne Sorceror 80 points Mark of Khorne, sorceror statline. Counts as a wizard (can use arcane items) with a level of 0 (can never cast any spells). When used to attempt dispels he has a +2 bonus. Maybe upgraded to +4 dispel for +35 points. If ever required to take a wizard level test he succeeds on a 1 (or 2 if his dispel ability is upgraded). As a wizard he may channel both power and dispel dice as normal (remember power dice are still useful for dispelling). Fluffy: In SoM games perhaps allow them to cast 7 sigils of summoning BUT only to summon Khornate daemons (exception to normal rules) :D |
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| conjoy | Oct 11 2011, 12:52 AM Post #12 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Another way to implement this would be to assign different (when I say different I mean actually useful) effects to Magic resistance. For instance, you could say that Khorne items with MR have the following properties when taken on a Sorc character, so you end up with sort of like a Runemaster style character, this might particularly fit if you are taking Chaos Dwarfs: MR 1 = a dispel Scroll MR 2 = +2 to dispel attempt MR 3 = +3 to dispel attempt or give it the effect of the Master Rune of Balance from the Dwarf book (you take an opponent’s power dice making it a dispel dice). |
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| nzkoston | Oct 12 2011, 11:29 AM Post #13 |
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The Chosen
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How about some sort of fluff along the lines of blood magic? much like Dragon Age (sorry to cross genre). Perhaps the same concept as the Dark Elves sacrificial dagger. Maybe put the "mage" with a unit of marauders and he has to sacrifice a marauder for each spell dice he want to throw at a spell. I guess that would chew through a lot of models but its just an idea. So most likely rolling in a horde. Not meant to be a power caster but at least you could have the option. I think that would at least appease the blood god some what. Does he care whos blood is spilled in his name? An exalted hero with Great weapon (gotta be a messy sacrifice) that can cast as long as he sacrifices a model to roll a power dice. Maybe 35 points per casting level up to level 2 choosing from the lores of Death, Fire and Shadow. Just throwing that out there. |
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| Lungboy | Oct 14 2011, 05:24 PM Post #14 |
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Warrior of the Chamber
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This is untrue. Slaves to Darkness (old fluff but still largely canon) states: "Khorne is opposed to the use of any form of magic, and does not grant spells to his followers under any circumstances. There are no wizards dedicated to the service of Khorne." Edited by Lungboy, Oct 14 2011, 05:26 PM.
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| mrtn | Oct 14 2011, 11:25 PM Post #15 |
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Swashbuckling Moderator
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I'd just take lore of death and hope for hex spells instead of killing from afar. |
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