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2500pt First-time List; New to Chaos, trying something new
Topic Started: Oct 9 2011, 12:20 AM (450 Views)
Arfa
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Slave
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Hey there guys! This is my first WoC list although I am a seasoned veteran with O&G (you might have seen over at Da Warpath) and Empire in tournament play, and I decided to give a switch to chaos to try something different out. As my Empire list is a witch hunter/cult of Sigmar list I wanted to make a cult of Ulric list to counter it, and I decided that Chaos was the best book to go with. The trolls/Throgg will be represented by giant wearwolves (Sons of Ulric), the hellcannon as a giant siege mortar being dragged by a monsterous wolf etc. It's looking very small though, let me know what you guys think!


Sorceror Lord - Lvl4, Mark of Tzeench, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeench, Infernal Puppet - 400pts

Exalted Hero - BSB, Mark of Tzeench, Collar of Khorne, Enchanted Shield, Halberd, Ironcurse Icon - 214pts

Throgg - 175pts

17 Chosen - Full Command, Banner of Discipline, Eye of Gods (champion), Mark of Khorne - 440pts

44x Marauders - GW, Full Command, Mark of Khorne - 270pts

7x Trolls - 315pts

5x Knights of Chaos - Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, Mark of Nurgle - 290pts

5x Warhounds - 30pts
5x Warhounds - 30pts

Chaos Warshrine - 130pts

Hellcannon - 205pts

Total - 2499pts

Again, all comments/criticism welcome :)

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Hinge
Exalted Guardian
Welcome to the Dark side. I am actually going the other way and painting up a Witch Hunter Empire army.

First, Banner of flame does not work on Knights. They have magic attacks and that conflicts with the Flaming attack rules. Frenzy Banner instead perhaps? Or Blasted Standard to protect aganist shooting?

What is the kit on the Chosen?

I take it you are leaving an element of theme in the list. Still, the Wailing Banner on the Chosen would optimize your chance at getting Divine Greatness. Still would fit with the theme.

I would drop the Collar of Khorne in favor of a better ward. You lose the shield in combat and the BSB is way to important to leave up to a 4+/5++. MR is not what it used to be!

WoC lists tend to be small compared to our opponents. Just the nature of things.

Hinge
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Arfa
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Slave
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Hey Hinge, cheers for the quick reply.

Why doesnt the banner of eternal flame stack with magic attacks? I know the flaming sword spell gives both? I wanted to give them flaming attacks so there is one unit in the list that can take on treemen/hydras/hbombs etc, although with only S5 that in itself is looking a bit iffy.

Chosen have Halberd + Shield sorry, should have mentioned that.

Theme wise, not particularly. The theme will be how I convert them to be Middenhiem-ish. The only things that have to stay are the unit of knights, because I need at least one unit of white wolves! That said, as useful as the wailing banner would be, they really need to have the banner of discipline so the army has at least Ld9. With so much stupidity and frenzy in the list. That said I am also quite scared of running the sorcerer in such an expensive unit, but thats the price you have to pay I guess.

I chose the collar of khorne for protection against lore of Death spells etc, but that was when I had the 5+ ward on the sorcerer (which went to 4+) so I could swap that over for sure. Good call on the shield that went completely over my head, I'll swap that one out for the dragonhelm to give him a 3+/4++ and 2++vs flaming, sound better? Only problem is I wont be able to fit in a shield on him, although I dont see him getting hit by too many things in the shooting phase and even against Hockland's Id put faith in T4 5+/4++. I also forgot to write down that he has the Stream of Corruption, hence his inflated points cost!

Cheers for the comments, do you think there is enough there to take away too much fire from the Trolls? I've been loving trolls in my greenskin lists, best points you can get IMO, and Throgg is just so darn good this edition with his vomit that it was too good to resist. But I dont really want them to go up in a giant fireball turn1, normally my mangler squigs etc stop that for O&G but with so few targets, I dunno. We'll see!


*edited list*

Sorceror Lord - Lvl4, Mark of Tzeench, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeench, Infernal Puppet - 400pts

Exalted Hero - BSB, Mark of Tzeench, Talisman of Endurance, Dragonhelm, Stream of Corruption, Halberd, Ironcurse Icon - 214pts

Throgg - 175pts

17 Chosen - Full Command, Banner of Discipline, Favour of the Gods (champion), Mark of Khorne, Halberds, Shields - 440pts

44x Marauders - GW, Full Command, Mark of Khorne - 270pts

7x Trolls - 315pts

5x Knights of Chaos - Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, Mark of Nurgle - 290pts

5x Warhounds - 30pts
5x Warhounds - 30pts

Chaos Warshrine - 130pts

Hellcannon - 205pts

Total - 2499pts


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Arfa
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Slave
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Wait, was just thinking, do Hounds count towards min core? Because otherwise Im under 25%, and that would suck balls :S

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Rusty Wintertooth
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Beast of Nurgle
No sadly, wolves don't count as core.

Although as I am a newcomer to WoC (and warhammer after a 10 year hiatus) I can't give you any alternatives that couldn't be suggested by someone with much more experience than me.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Since he has Throgg, one more Troll should do the trick.
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Arfa
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Slave
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rothgar13
Oct 9 2011, 11:36 PM
Since he has Throgg, one more Troll should do the trick.

Problem is, where does that troll come from? And how will it really fit into the army? I think I may have to drop the chosen down to regular warriors, in which case what do I do with the 50 odd points Id save? Bump the Knights up? Damn spooty rules getting in the way of my fun :P

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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Arfa
Oct 9 2011, 01:54 PM
Why doesnt the banner of eternal flame stack with magic attacks? I know the flaming sword spell gives both? I wanted to give them flaming attacks so there is one unit in the list that can take on treemen/hydras/hbombs etc, although with only S5 that in itself is looking a bit iffy.

Read the rules for flaming attacks in the BRB, last paragraph. Clearly state why flaming banner DOES NOT work with our knights.
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Arfa
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Slave
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guardian angel
Oct 10 2011, 04:52 AM
Arfa
Oct 9 2011, 01:54 PM
Why doesnt the banner of eternal flame stack with magic attacks? I know the flaming sword spell gives both? I wanted to give them flaming attacks so there is one unit in the list that can take on treemen/hydras/hbombs etc, although with only S5 that in itself is looking a bit iffy.

Read the rules for flaming attacks in the BRB, last paragraph. Clearly state why flaming banner DOES NOT work with our knights.

Sorry I was just going off armybuilder, didnt have the rulebook on me. Well that scraps that idea, I think I might bump the chosen down to core and use those extra points on the knights, they are white wolves after all. Razor standard perhaps? Extra knight? Again I haven't really heard much about knights other than 'mark of nurgle makes them hard as nails'. Thoughts?

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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Setups I like for knights are either:

7 knights+mark of nurgle+m+sb+banner of rage

This is an absolute killer of a unit! At full strength it kicks out 21 knight attacks and 14 horse attacks :o
Problem is that they are harder to control with frenzy, and a clever opponent will use frenzy against you.

7 knights+mark of tzeentch+m+sb+blasted standard

A great unit. Resilient, provides protection against the one thing that can take down knights easily; war machines. Can easily munch opponents light units, and more controllable due to no frenzy.
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Arfa
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Slave
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guardian angel
Oct 10 2011, 03:22 PM
Setups I like for knights are either:

7 knights+mark of nurgle+m+sb+banner of rage

This is an absolute killer of a unit! At full strength it kicks out 21 knight attacks and 14 horse attacks :o
Problem is that they are harder to control with frenzy, and a clever opponent will use frenzy against you.

7 knights+mark of tzeentch+m+sb+blasted standard

A great unit. Resilient, provides protection against the one thing that can take down knights easily; war machines. Can easily munch opponents light units, and more controllable due to no frenzy.

I like them, but why no champ if I may ask? Just a points issue? Right now Im tossing up between six wth m/o nurgle, full command & banner of rage, plus using leftover points to throw either mark of slaneesh on the warshrine or favour of the gods on the bsb, or somehow find 8pts and take the first unit as you suggested, or find 3pts and grab the Tzeench option. In this list do you think many warmachines would be going at the knights though? From what Ive seen most people try to pick off the war altar & hellcannon first with warmachines, and I reckon that troll unit is going to cop a lot of attention too. Hrm!

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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
To be fair in your list there are higher priority/tastier tragets than the knights (namely the trolls) so you'd probably do fine with the nurgle+ban of rage combo.

Champion is only worth it if you have a character in the unit. Otherwise your half-way to another knight!

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Arfa
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Slave
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guardian angel
Oct 10 2011, 04:32 PM
To be fair in your list there are higher priority/tastier tragets than the knights (namely the trolls) so you'd probably do fine with the nurgle+ban of rage combo.

Champion is only worth it if you have a character in the unit. Otherwise your half-way to another knight!

Only problem is that that half a knight has to come from somewhere! any ideas where I could drop 8pts, to the point where it's just as effective as the extra body on the knights would be? Stream of Corruption perhaps? Although breath weapons are often game winners in 8th :S

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guardian angel
Exalted Guardian
Yes, breath weapons can be good if your like a hydra or a dragon, but in my experience the stream of corruption is not worth it: on average 7/8 hits at ONLY strength 3, 3/4 wounds maybe, and then they probably pass 2/3 armour saves so you've netted an awesome 1/2 kills. It gets noticably worse against high toughness opponents!!

I would drop it and use the points to get your other knight. Just my opinion though ^_^
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Arfa
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Slave
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Alright guys, sorry for the threadomancy but I just thought I'd run the final list past you! I didnt have enough core so I had to drop the Chosen down to Warriors, but that let me beef them up a bit in numbers so they'll run 7x3. I also dropped the champ on the knights and the steam of corruption on the BSB to bump the knights up to six strong, and used the leftover points from the chosen to change the banner of eternal flame to the banner of rage. I think Im happy with the list now, what do you guys think?

Sorceror Lord - Lvl4, Mark of Tzeench, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Third Eye of Tzeench, Infernal Puppet - 400pts

Exalted Hero - BSB, Mark of Tzeench, Talisman of Endurance, Dragonhelm, Halberd, Ironcurse Icon - 194pts

Throgg - 175pts

20 Warriors - Full Command, Banner of Discipline, Mark of Khorne, Halberds, Shields - 415pts

44x Marauders - GW, Full Command, Mark of Khorne - 270pts

7x Trolls - 315pts

6x Knights of Chaos - Standard, Musician, Banner of Rage, Mark of Nurgle - 335pts

5x Warhounds - 30pts
5x Warhounds - 30pts

Chaos Warshrine - 130pts

Hellcannon - 205pts

Total - 2499pts

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