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| 2400 Allcomers; By jove I think I've got it! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 12 2011, 03:23 PM (1,022 Views) | |
| guardian angel | Oct 12 2011, 03:23 PM Post #1 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So after much thought, reading over old lists and being inspired by some things I have seen on this forum I think I have finally arrived at a 2400 list I am happy with :D The list is not the hardest one out there, but it has the tools to deal with anything out there (at least I think it does!), which a good allcomers army should do. Also, on the table it should look good due to it's balanced nature. Anyhow, the list: LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4 - shadow)+necrotic phylactery+enchanted shield+blood of tzeentch+iron curse icon+warrior bane=335 HEROES: Exalted hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+talisman of preservation+biting blade=200 Sorcerer(lvl1 - fire)+charmed shield+scroll+3rd eye of tzeentch=140 CORE: 18 Warriors+MoK+shields+halberds+m+sb+banner of eternal flame=364 20 Warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rapturous std=390 42 Marauders+MoK+gw+fc=260 29 Marauders+MoT+shields+fc=185 5 Marauder horsemen+MoS+la+flails+m=96 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds SPECIAL: 7 Knights+MoT+m+sb+blasted standard=370 The basic plan is the 3 main combat blocks (khorne warriors, tzeentch warriors and khorne marauders) form the centre, with the tzeentch marauders providing back-up and a bunker for my level4. My level1 will go in the khorne marauders to give them leadership 8, helping to control them, and also gaining a measure of protection. BSB goes with the tzeentch warriors and together they chant "we shall not, we shall not be moved"! They form a very solid centre to the army. BSB is as well protected as I can get him. Decided to put the flaming banner back on my warriors as a definitive answer to regen. I think I've been playing HE to long, hence why I was loath to drop the mark of nurgle ;) Marauder horsemen provide me with a fast unit to hunt warmachines with, something they are more reliable at than hounds! And the knights, well they're my fast flankers, but can be used for many things and 7 knights still worries people, so means an opponent can't focus wholly on the troop blocks. Anyhow, that's a run down. Any improvements anyone can see that can be made? |
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| conjoy | Oct 12 2011, 06:52 PM Post #2 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Its a really solid list and only a tiny suggestion or two: Javelins are really good on the Marauder Horse: They give you a really good option for baiting things like Giants that are often put on a flank, it also gives them something to do while charge-blocking. They have a huge roll to play late-game in harassing fleeing units off the board. However they may not have a good melee target early game. With javelins they can still shoot if no melee targets look soft enough. You can avoid javelins by either dropping the la or swapping the flails for spears. I’m not sure how you would afford it, but I think you need another dummy drop or even two. You go very quickly from dropping nothing units to major combat blocks. Match-ups are going to be very important to your list, so I would sacrifice a little damage output to protect the overall performance of the army. For instance a HElf player could drop two great Eagles matching your hounds then with just a couple of weakish Archer drops he has dominated deployment and allowed him to match-off his Swordmasters against your Kh Warriors – which is basically free points for him. You could drop a single Knight, Warrior and Marauder to then have two more units of hounds. |
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| guardian angel | Oct 12 2011, 07:31 PM Post #3 |
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Exalted Guardian
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@Conjoy; Now there are some very good suggestions, thanks :) You have a very good point on the dummy drops, especially in regard to HE as I play against them pretty regularly and know exactly what you mean (swordmasters are horrible!). I'm a tad reluctant to drop a knight, but like you say, for the overall benefit of the list it might not be so bad. What I may do is drop, warrior bane, a knight, a tzeentch warrior and a khorne marauder and then try and get another unit of hounds and possibly another level for my scroll sorcerer. Then if points allow I could put javelins on the marauder horse. If I got my scroll sorcerer to level2 I think I may change his lore to Death as well as that has some awesome spells. And with the 3rd eye he could still borrow the opponents. |
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| guardian angel | Oct 12 2011, 08:39 PM Post #4 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Revised list based on some of the suggestions made by Conjoy: LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4 - shadow)+necrotic phylactery+enchanted shield+blood of tzeentch=325 HEROES: Exalted hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+talisman of preservation+biting blade=200 Sorcerer(lvl1 - fire)+charmed shield+scroll+3rd eye of tzeentch=140 CORE: 18 Warriors+MoK+shields+halberds+m+sb+banner of eternal flame=364 19 Warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rapturous std=374 41 Marauders+MoK+gw+fc=255 29 Marauders+MoT+shields+fc=185 5 Marauder horsemen+MoS+la+flails+m=96 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds SPECIAL: 7 Knights+MoT+m+sb+blasted standard=370 This gives me the extra drop (3rd unit of dogs) and maintains my knight unit at 7 strong. Have a game on Friday when I will test it out :) |
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| guardian angel | Oct 15 2011, 06:45 PM Post #5 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So had a game with the above list last night against my mates daemons. His list was roughly: 2x tzeentch heralds both with loremaster (one life, one shadow) Khorne herald Slannesh herald 2x 20ish horrors (bunkers for his casters) 40 daemonettes 20ish bloodletters 6 seekers 2x fiends 2x 3 flamers Not the hardest daemon list at all (no greater daemon) as he wanted to try some stuff out, but this was my first game against daemons so could be fun! We played a standard pitched battle, and after going the distance the WoC emerged victorius with a massacre :D My list worked very well, and I was very happy with it. I'll post some things which stood out to me: 1) Level1 with 3rd eye and scroll was AWESOME! I can't say how great I found this combo. For so few points he can be amazing. I only used fireball the first turn, after that I just nicked the life spells. I also found that as he has the 3rd eye it leaves my shadow lord free to cast his de-buffs. This way I don't have to choose, I get the best of both worlds. He rocked :rock: I may consider putting MoT on him for the extra casting help and 6+ ward, thing is, don't want to make him to expensive as then he's not so expendable ;) 2) Shadow lord in tzeentch marauder bunker = good. Kept him safe all game, never needed to engage in combat and due to most of his spellls not requiring line of sight can be postioned pretty much anywhere you want. 3) Blood of Tzeentch rocks :rock: This little item allowed me to turn 2 failed casting attempts into successes over the course of the game. Could have also saved him from a miscast as well if I hadn't wanted to total power ;) An excellent item. Staying on my sorcerer lord from now on. 4) Dogs die but are great for deployment and harassment. 3 units is definitely better than 2. Maybe 4 may be better still? 5) Fast cavalry did nothing, but due to his army I knew they wouldn't. Thing is I really am unsure if they are worth it/required. I could easily drop them for another dog unit and other stuff. Has anyone really found fast cav to be essential to our army? Anyhow, time to go away and think of tinkering with the list now ;) |
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| guardian angel | Oct 16 2011, 11:24 PM Post #6 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So after my last battle I have been tinkering with my list and have decided to drop the fast cav. I've dropped a knight as well and got me a chariot :P I wanted another swiftstride support unit, and a chariot is a hell of a lot more resilient than fast cav. I've had good results with one before but never played consistently with it. Maybe this is the time! Anyhow, my re-worked list: LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4 - shadow)+necrotic phylactery+enchanted shield+blood of tzeentch+ICI=330 HEROES: Exalted hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+talisman of preservation+biting blade=200 Sorcerer(lvl1 - fire)+charmed shield+scroll+3rd eye of tzeentch=140 CORE: 18 Warriors+MoK+shields+halberds+m+sb+banner of eternal flame=364 19 Warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rapturous std=374 41 Marauders+MoK+gw+fc=255 29 Marauders+MoT+shields+fc=185 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds SPECIAL: 6 Knights+MoT+m+sb+blasted standard=330 Chariot+MoS=130 |
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| Hinge | Oct 17 2011, 12:23 AM Post #7 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Great Job. I love hearing what works and does not work in peoples lists. I do have some comments about the Fast Cav. In the face of flamers, they will go down quick. Not the best measuring stick. You might want to try using them a couple more times. A possible use is a redirector/speed bump of last resort. Keep them hidden or back so that it is difficult to shoot them down but close enough to be where you need them. Their free reform makes them superior in every way to dogs in this roll. Another is to get behind the enemy. This way if he chooses a flee reaction, you can chase the target back (clearly does not work against DoC). Finally, you only have one unit that is really good at clearing opposing chaff/light units (Chariot). I think you need another. Flail Mar Cav can do the trick. The Dogs are ok but can not be depended on to do the trick. I guess it depends on the threat environment, but I find having a unit provides some tactical flexibility. I love a chariot, good add. The Third Eye is my favorite WoC item. Everyone focuses on the puppet, third eye again provides a huge amount of Tactical flexibility. |
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| DarkSchneider | Oct 17 2011, 12:26 AM Post #8 |
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Clanlord
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I'd say that playin 2 mages, and an expensive lev.4, puppet should be a better choice over the scroll, but i know life can be hard w.out that dispel...... Another suggestion i would give you is to drop that blasted standard from your knights. Realize that you're spending 40 points to protect 6 wounds.......that's not a good deal, IMHO. Also, Knights are surprisingly not a good taget for WM's, cause both cannons and ST will kill just one......a wasted shot, compared to your big and expensive infantry blocks. With that 40 points you can just add another knight, and rend the unit way more effective..... Another thing redundand are that 29 marauders.............thay have to stay in the back, and avoiding combat whenever possible, so I guess 24 are as good as 29. With the spare points you can add another warhounds unit (counting you can also drop the standard bearer from knights, or even switch them from tz. to slaanesh). Finally, add the ironcurse icon to your Sup Sorc. For a mere 5 points you will give his bunker unit a pretty 5++ save against that Stone Throwers that will surely aim at them. Edited by DarkSchneider, Oct 17 2011, 12:28 AM.
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| guardian angel | Oct 17 2011, 01:35 AM Post #9 |
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Exalted Guardian
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A lot of good points, but I have used them in previous games to this and more often than not find them wanting. Sometimes they have been awesome, but generally they end up dying pretty quickly. This is why I'm thinking of replacing them with a chariot. Whilst not able to do all the same jobs, a chariot should be good at handling the small units you talked about. Edited by guardian angel, Oct 17 2011, 01:38 AM.
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| guardian angel | Oct 17 2011, 03:45 AM Post #10 |
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Exalted Guardian
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So, after further tinkering and taking on board some of the above comments, I think I will try the following list next (and yes the fast cav are back in!): LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4 - shadow)+necrotic phylactery+enchanted shield+blood of tzeentch+ICI=330 HEROES: Exalted hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+talisman of preservation+biting blade=200 Sorcerer(lvl1 - fire)+charmed shield+scroll+3rd eye of tzeentch=140 CORE: 18 Warriors+MoK+shields+halberds+m+sb+banner of eternal flame=364 19 Warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rapturous std=374 41 Marauders+MoK+gw+fc=255 25 Marauders+MoT+shields+fc=165 5 horsemen+MoS+la+flails+javelins+m=101 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds SPECIAL: 6 Knights+m=250 Chariot+MoS=130 This should provide me with all the tactical flexibility I need :D Edited by guardian angel, Oct 17 2011, 03:09 PM.
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| DarkSchneider | Oct 17 2011, 07:26 PM Post #11 |
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Clanlord
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it's come out pretty nice, good job. I would personally drop another marauder, the MOS on the chariot and the musician on M.H. to add the mark of tzeench to the lv 1 sorc. This way you can cast 3deyed with a +2, and flickering fire could be better than fireball |
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| guardian angel | Oct 17 2011, 07:35 PM Post #12 |
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Exalted Guardian
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That definitely is an option; my friend suggested the same thing! The bonus is then he may be able to get one of the "good" tzeentch spells as well. My only concern with this list is that somehow it feels like I'm speading myself to thin, but I don't think I am really! |
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| DarkSchneider | Oct 18 2011, 10:02 PM Post #13 |
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Clanlord
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yeah, it's a common feeling for me too....don't worry, it's chaos! strenght NOT in numbers |
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| guardian angel | Oct 19 2011, 03:48 AM Post #14 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Went to my local GW tonight for a game and ended up playing Wood Elves. I took a slightly tweaked list with me: LORD: Sorcerer lord(lvl4 - shadow)+necrotic phylactery+enchanted shield+blood of tzeentch+ICI=330 HEROES: Exalted hero(BSB)+MoT+shield+talisman of preservation+biting blade=200 Sorcerer(lvl1 - fire)+charmed shield+scroll+3rd eye of tzeentch=140 CORE: 18 Warriors+MoK+shields+halberds+m+sb+banner of eternal flame=364 19 Warriors+MoT+shields+fc+rapturous std=374 41 Marauders+MoK+gw+fc=255 24 Marauders+MoT+shields+fc=160 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds 5 Warhounds SPECIAL: 5 Knights+m=210 Chariot 3 Ogres+MoS+ca+ahw+m=155 (A total experiment!) His list was very soft, and themed around a winter army, but you can only beat what's in front of you ;) His list roughly was: Lord on an eagle with a bow that didn't allow armour saves Level4 with life level2 with WE lore BSB Hero of some kind 40 Eternal guard 10 archers 8 fast cav 11 wardancers 2x 5 waywatchers We got the dawn attack secanrio which ended up with my marauder horde opposite his eternal guard horde, great! However there was a building close to my marauders, and in the way. He also placed his level4, BSB and hero in the eternal guard unit, talk about a points sink :o I got first turn, proceeded to march my marauder horde with level1 into the building, then in my magic phase, cast a stolen and boosted dwellers below at the eternal guard and got IF! Level4, BSB and hero died as did about half the unit. To add insult to injury the charmed shield allowed me to deflect the miscast hit. God that rocked :rock: The game was effectively over in that moment. Then it was just mop up! However I did note some other things about my list: 1) Level1 with 3rd eye rocks, especially with charmed shield :rock: This guy earned so many times his points in one phase it was silly. Is a great combo. 2) Having 3 small support units in the knights, ogres and chariot was handy. I'm gonna keep them all and try again. 3) Ogres were a total experiment and did ok. They ran up a flank to take out the archers (which they managed). Chaos armour seemed to make a big difference to their survivability. I'm gonna continue to experiment with them. I intend to use them to hunt small support units, rush warmachines, hit flanks etc. Plus it's fun trying them out for a change, especially when everyone says they suck! |
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| Hinge | Oct 19 2011, 01:15 PM Post #15 |
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Exalted Guardian
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Great job. I love that you used a non standard unit to good effect. Just a reminder that you can not march into buildings. Also, your opponent will not take dwellers again in the face of Third Eye! Hinge |
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