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Chaos Lords and magic defense; How to incorporate it into a competitivte list?
Topic Started: Dec 25 2012, 10:05 AM (585 Views)
rothgar13
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Clanlord
Hey all,

I'm seeking the community's advice on what has turned out to be a rather thorny topic. I have several Chaos Lord builds I would like to incorporate into a competitive list, but I'm running into a bit of a tough time actually putting them into a list while not leaving myself wide open in the magic defense department. I'm obviously not going to be able to afford a L4, but I'm thinking that 2 L2's with the Dispel Scroll and the Infernal Puppet will at least be able to hold the fort. Trouble is, I have no idea what units to put them in.

So this is where I'm looking to you guys:

1. What units would you put these guys in? I'm thinking Knights for the Lord and Discs for the Sorcerers (and hide those Discs behind a couple of Chaos Troll units), but you could talk me into some other conformation.

2. Do you think 2 L2's with the Scroll and Puppet is enough magic defense? I've never really run a Chaos army without having the highest-level caster I can bring, so I'm a bit apprehensive about it. That said, I know of people who have had success with this setup.

3. Can you suggest any alternative setups? I don't think a gear compromise between the Chaos Lord and the Sorcerer Lord in order to fit them both in a 2500 list is a good idea, but I could be wrong. It also may be that bringing the Chaos Lord along just isn't worth all this trouble, but I think it is - countering nasty stuff like a Vampire Lord with a fighty character that's just as nasty has potential in my mind.

Looking forward to any and all responses.
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Mungojerrie
The Chosen
I have started to run a bunker of 20 or so marauders for my wizard and bsb to hide in. Run them behind the lines and it will seldom be a target. To many other units to deal with...
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
I don't think the problem would be magic defense, but offense. By experience I feel that a good magic support can bring to the army much more than any Chaos Lord build can do. Maybe the only build worthy is the stubborn disc lord. Anyway, I think that two lvl2 with dispel and puppet can provide the defense you need, but I would suggest nurgle for the mark.
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chaos_stalker
Warrior of the Chamber
I've run a Chaos Lord with two level twos with pretty good success. MoT on one (+1 to cast) with puppet and conjoined homonuculus for the extra D3 on one spell per turn. This makes him as or more effective on the spells he does have than a normal LVL4. The second one you can run vanilla with the dispel scroll and either shadow or fire or conversely MoT to increase the chance of getting Gateway, pandamonium, or flickering fire.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Interesting - what Chaos Lord build do you use? Where do you bunker your Sorcerers, if anywhere? I think these are the two aspects I'm struggling with the most. I'm thinking I might go for the small Marauder bunker as discussed above, but I'd like to hear if there's any other ideas first.
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propervillanz
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A Manly Muppet
I have personally begun to shy away from the level 4 sorcerer lord as i find magic way to fickle to base ones tactics on. I like running combat centered lords in units such as skullcrushers, or knights as it is my humble opinion that if you are running a low magic army you have to make up for it somewhere and to me speed is that factor.

A build i really like is:
Chaos Lord
Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut of Khorne, , Other Tricksters Shard, Aethersword, Talisman of Endurance, Charmed Shield. I find it surprising how many people rely on Toughness and Armor to protect their characters this guy cuts through that with ease, you can also swap weapons for the Axe of Khorne for S6 and killing blow.

Another is:
Chaos Lord
Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Steed, Dragonhelm, Talisman of Preservation, Helm of Many Eyes, Great Weapon

I tend to run a single level 2 with lore of death, dispel scroll and collar of khorne, if i add a second i go with a level 1 fire or death with shielding scroll, third eye and some sort of magic weapon.

All in all, i think the trick is high mobility and speed (knights, skullcrushers, trolls, dragon ogres, chariots). The more mobile your forces the sooner you can get them into combat to pin forces in place leaving enemy wizard bunkers exposed. Lore of death will put pressure on your opponents characters. With the right combat lord you will absolutely tool enemy characters or at least hold them up long enough to win combat with your corresponding unit.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
@chaos stalker: lvl 2 can't have shadow
@proper: elm of many eyes with great weapon doesn't give you asf.

Don't underestimate magic, people. Four shadow spells and four nurgles, with power familiar and homunculus, can really turn the tide of any combat, much more than a lord can do. I would say the best thing the guy can bring is the crown of command with good protection
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
I don't know about that - I'm not debating whether the 1+/3++ Stubborn Chaos Lord on a Disc is great or not, because he obviously is. That said, I think there are another couple of builds that are worthy of inclusion. Personally, I'm thinking of fielding a Blender Lord (a la Vampire Counts) with lots of attacks and ASF in a unit of Nurgle Knights with the Banner of Rage.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
Problem is we do not get red fury. Are you thinking about Ogre Blade, Elm of many Eyes, Charmed Shield and Tali of Endurance?
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Calamity
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Clanlord
chaos_stalker
Dec 26 2012, 02:18 AM
The second one you can run vanilla with the dispel scroll and either shadow or fire or conversely MoT to increase the chance of getting Gateway, pandamonium, or flickering fire.
only a lvl 3/4 can take lore of shadows
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
Yes, it's too bad we don't have a Red Fury-equivalent. I was looking at Sword of Anti-Heroes + Helm of Many Eyes + Talisman of Preservation, or at Chaos Runesword + Dawnstone + Helm of Many Eyes.
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propervillanz
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A Manly Muppet
How about
Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut of Khorne, Helm of Many Eyes, Rending Blade, Talisman of Preservation.

Re-rolls to hit and wound and in a unit of skullcrushers will be the equivalent of a magic bullet. Sure S5 could be better but with a possibility of 6 hits and wounds coming each combat round your enemy will be hard pressed to have hot dice to save all of those.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
Too many high as units out there to rely on S5. The choice is between 6 s7 attacks or 7 S6. I would go for the first, because it allows a 4+ ward save. The problem with both those builds is that they require to place the lord in a unit with banner of rage, and I'm not a fan of chaos knights.
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rothgar13
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Clanlord
I have to agree with that, Skullcrushers seem to outshine them in pretty much every way. Maybe field the Lord on foot in a unit of Warriors with the Banner of Rage? The 1+ save will be missed, though I can get it to 2+ if I play with the gear a bit.
Edited by rothgar13, Dec 28 2012, 02:35 AM.
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DarkSchneider
Clanlord
Would be cool on foot, but the best protection he can get is 3+/4++ (ward save is mandatory), which is the same of the standard blender vampire, so I'd say that's enough. Too bad he's stuck with 6 attacks, but I guess that's the best we can get. With rerolls and S7 it's an average of 5 wounds per turn, with -4 as. Coupled with the S5 attacks from the unit it could be enough to discourage anything to get too close. Problem would be getting that unit into combat against some chaff heavy armies.
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