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| WoC Help vs Tomb Kings | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 13 2013, 10:56 PM (562 Views) | |
| wargame_insomniac | Jan 13 2013, 10:56 PM Post #1 |
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The Chosen
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Hi I have not faced Tomb Kings since 7th ed. I have a campaign game gainst them in a weeks time and have no idea what I will be facing. I need some pointers on what to include. The restrictions: 1) 2,000 points 2) Campaign game so CANNOT use my usual Tzeentch Sorceror Lord nor ANY of his magic items: (Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch, Conjoined Humunculous, Screaming Blade, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Blood of Tzeentch, Iron Curse Icon) 3) My available units to choose from: PAINTED: -Lord with daemonic mount -BSB on foot -Lord/Hero on foot -Sorceror on Chaos Steed -Tzeentch Sorceror on Disc -20 Warriors HWS -25 Marauders HWS -40 Marauders GW -2 units of 5 Marauder Horse with throwing weapons -2 units of 5-6 Warhouns -2 units of 5-6 Knights UNPAINTED: -18 Warriors with HWS -16 Warriors with AHW -18 Marauders with Flails -1 Chariot -3 Skullcrushers (unbuilt but could assemble if needed) So that is what I can take. If I have nt listed then I will NOT be able to afford to buy it as will be playing campaign game before payday. So no Lords/Heroes on Juggernaughts/Steeds of Slaanesh, no Ogres/Trolls/Dragon Ogres/Hellcannon etc. Ideally would like to use as many painted figures as possible but could get away with 1-2 unpainted units. Magic wise I figure that Slaanesh not worth it. Don't want to taken Sorceror Lord with MoT as already have one in campaign. Happy to look at BRB Lores. Any suggestions with working what figures I have available? Any good magic items/Gifts that you would recommend? Thanks very much James Edited by wargame_insomniac, Jan 13 2013, 10:57 PM.
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| Tchar'zhul | Jan 13 2013, 11:15 PM Post #2 |
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Harbinger of Change
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You are essentially fighting undead. This undead, however suffers under the shadow of VC. Things to look for will be constructs, their characters, and mass of troops. Constructs vary greatly, but most common will be the warsphinx, a T8 monster. Way to overload it is with combat res or a mass of S5+ attacks. Enough 6s can kill it easily. With concerns for characters, most will pack a lvl 4 with a prince, which will be the bane if you don't kill it, as the prince gives any unit it joins the ability to hit with it's WS5. Kill it WITHOUT exploiting his flammable rule, as he will have prepared for that. Also look out for big blocks. Not uncommon to see to blocks of 40 archers backed up by chaff and chariot units. Lots of shots that suffer NO penalties whatsoever is brutal. Winning combat should be easy, hard part is winning combat by enough points to grind through. |
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| wargame_insomniac | Jan 14 2013, 12:44 AM Post #3 |
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The Chosen
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Thanks- so large foot units with Battle Banner/War Banner? Are knights worth it? With Banner of Wrath can kick out a fair number of attacks and should take few casualties back. BUT little static CR Mark of Slaanesh on smaller units might be good for ITP? Thanks James |
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| Tchar'zhul | Jan 14 2013, 01:52 AM Post #4 |
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Harbinger of Change
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Knights definitely help out when it comes to pumping out attacks. The banner of rage helps alot, just remember they will never break, so if the kills can't grind out more, be ready to be stuck in combat for another round which gives your opponent time to prepare. The war banner does help but the CR will be relying on your ability to KILL rather than to dominate with static. Slaanesh helps and so does frenzy in the cases of the catapult or their casket. Panic tests can be common if either start ripping into you senseless. Marauder Horsemen actually have a good role here as you can use the vanguard movement then march out to behind the lines to threaten the casket/catapult. You will have to suffer at least a round of casket attack which can hurt if your opponent rolls well, but stride in hard and take it out in COMBAT not shooting with your horsemen, unless you think you can pump out 6s to take it down. |
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| Harbinger | Jan 14 2013, 04:10 AM Post #5 |
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The Chosen
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Against his constructs, i would actually hold the knights as a reserve/quick reaction force against new units he raises or to engage the construct troops. Just watch out for the sphinxes, I'm pretty sure most of them have killing blow, which puts the hurt on knights. If you are thinking of taking a Lv4 BRB caster, shadow would work great for you. Between the low Int of all undead and the ability to reduce the big monsters str/toughness, its fairly nice, along with being able to reduce undead movement can really hurt them when they can't march. Seeing as how they will out number you and you have so many high movement units, being able to manage to the movement phase can be very handy. If you do get in a sticky fight with the sphinx, i would hope for mind razor. That puts most of our troops hitting at str-8 and the rest at 7, according to who you cast it on. Pit of Shades has the potential to wipe out whole swathes of skeleton archers with their Int of 2, which you can knock down to 1 with miasma. |
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| Harbinger | Jan 14 2013, 04:16 AM Post #6 |
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The Chosen
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Is the guy on the disk specifically modeled to be a sorcerer? If not, i might run him as a exalted with the golden eye, dragon bane helm, shield, and maybe a basic magic weapon so he can fly around and be largely immune to shooting and hunt down chaff units or get thrown into fights with a flank charge. He could also help with hunting the catapults and or the casket if your opponent guns down all your marauder cav. |
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| wargame_insomniac | Jan 14 2013, 05:00 AM Post #7 |
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The Chosen
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It is a sorceror but I do tend to run him with Golden Eye for 3++ vs shooting. i usually run him with Third Eye of Tzeentch and Dispel Scroll. But I am not sure if I can "borrow" Tomb Kings spells so I will probably change that. He is usually my Warmachine Hunter- may still do fine with that vs Screaming Skull Catapults. I usually take Flickering Fire as nice cheap Magic Missile, and with disc can do 3 attacks in CC. |
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| Rorak Fangtaker | Jan 14 2013, 11:20 AM Post #8 |
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Taker of Trophies
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You can borrow them. You just can't raise your dead back to life with them (unless thats the lore attribute like lore of life). You could use their spell that gives guys killing blow (because thats just kind of awesome) or some other spell from their lore. (not super familiar with their lore but I remember the killing blow and extra movement spells) |
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| Tchar'zhul | Jan 14 2013, 08:49 PM Post #9 |
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Harbinger of Change
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Lol I used to play TK. They have the extra movement spell, killing blow spell, +1 attack, hex on opponents S or T (buffed does both), hex that causes a unit to take a DT test anytime they move, a really crappy vortex spell, and one that gives a 5+ ward save. Problem with it is that I don't believe you can utilize them because the spells work for Nehekharan Undead only, same with the lore attribute, and that only takes place when you buff the guys up. You can use the vexes but not much else. |
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| MasteroDisaster | Jan 14 2013, 09:22 PM Post #10 |
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The Chosen
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Things to avoid or look out for Sphinxes - Warsphinx is more common but Necrosphinx can be a bitch as well. Necro Knights - Have 3x S5 Poisoned and 2x S4 (With spears so S5 on charge) KB attacks EACH Casket of Souls - This is just plain nasty against WoC due to low LD, it'll force a Ld test on 3D6 and you take hits = to how bad u fail with no AS, it also gives him D3 extra dice during his magic phase. Another thing is it's guard have 2x S4 KB attacks each and the machine itself is T10! Yes T10! If you kill it... it explodes dealing uber damage in close proximity.... Hierotitan - Another of the constructs, it's effectively a magic support bone giant that has Shems and Spirit leech as bound spells but also boots the casting value of any Liche Priest or Liche high Priest within 12" by D3. Hordes of Tomb Guard - Often equiped with a Necrotect for Hatred or Ramhotep the visionary for Hatred + Frenzy and a Prince/King for a WS boost to either 5/6 respectively, also riddled with KB and the ONLY unit in their army that can take a 50 pts banner. Catapults - Can be very nasty as they are flamming and magical but they also cause a panic test similar to the Hellcannon but they pay 30 pts for the -1. However they are 90ish points each so expect them to be fairly common. At anything above 2k many players will take 2 SSC's, Casket + Hierotitan for around 490 points. Hordes of Archers - as if they were bad enough on their own with Incantation of Righteous Smiting they become multi shot (2) and with Khalida they can be BS3 as well as poisoned not to mention none of the TK shooting ever suffers from modifiers unless you modify their BS in order to do so. Magic - Every augment spell (They have 4 of them) they receive heals D3+1 models back (just +1 wound on constructs) but ti cant heal their heroes/lords. Hexs are nasty -1 S&T or -D3 S&T or DT on every movement. Skullstorm sux but the others are very useful. The more common seen spells are boosted Protection for 12" 5++ bubble or Boosted Righteous Smiting for a 24" +1 attack and multi-shot x2 bubble. Combined they will hurt like hell! Throw their KB spell into the mix and watch the pain. Try to stop their augments where possible and they will struggle. Stealing their spells is an option on some of their magic, namely Cursed Blades (KB) and the Hexes as the other Augments only affect Nehekharan Undead units. Main Weakness - The Hierophant, kick his ass into dust and the army takes crumbling at the end of that phase and then the beginning of every TK turn there after. He will probably be bunkered down with Archers at the back somewhere or in he middle so he can bubble his spells and heal. My first ever army was TK's back in 6th or 7th so the above are really the main threats. Expect a heavily magic reliant using army with lots of nasty tricks up their sleeve. They are quite capable of over powering many other armies in the magic phase due to support and their coven of light is arguably one of the best in game. Hope this helps and good luck! A Battle Rep would be an interesting read as the last time my TKs took on WoC I stomped them. Edited by MasteroDisaster, Jan 14 2013, 09:24 PM.
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| Tchar'zhul | Jan 14 2013, 10:22 PM Post #11 |
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Harbinger of Change
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+1 MasteroDisaster! Much better analysis than I! |
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| wargame_insomniac | Jan 15 2013, 06:17 AM Post #12 |
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The Chosen
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Thx MasteroDisaster. That was great info. I will reread when home tomorrow and have a think what might work. Was thinking Khorne as Itp until lose frenzy? And extra attack s to help CR. |
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| Tchar'zhul | Jan 15 2013, 08:13 AM Post #13 |
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Harbinger of Change
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Khorne will always have it's place. He is probably the only consistent and practical mark to have in any army. |
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| MasteroDisaster | Jan 15 2013, 04:45 PM Post #14 |
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The Chosen
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Thanks very much Khalthrax! If I can help a fellow heretic stomp stuff then I'm happy to help :D I had a think last night and there are a couple of other things that might cause you hassle and that's: Sepulcheral Stalkers - These guys have a nasty shooting attack that wounds against Int. rather than T and ignores armour saves, pretty bad against an army like ours (Also due to the new TK FAQ they no longer HAVE to be buried) Tomb Scrops - Fairly tough little buggers for their price tag, KB, Poison and if memory serves 3W at T5! They are more commonly used for WM hunting, combo charges or chaff clearance (Again no longer HAVE to be buried) Chariots - These can be used to deadly effect if there are enough of them, like Ogre's their impact hit Str increases by +1 for each rank and they start at S4. They rank up so a unit of 8 (4x2) would pound you for 4D6 S5 Impact hits not to mention the 8 Horses, and butt load of crew attacks at WS3! WS3 for skeletons is just wrong. More commonly found in smaller units as they are fairly pricey but do fulfill core. May have flaming banner or banner of swiftness and use in combo charges. Lastly they are also equipped with bows just for an added kicker. God I love'em! :D These things aren't as common but can certainly ruin your day if left unchecked. Mark of Khorne will definitely help as much of the TK stuff is fairly fragile and almost everything in their army has an AS of around 5+. Necro Knights have a 3+ save due to a special rule but that's about it. They don't have access to heavy armour unless it's magic so the more CR you can build up against them the more damage they take at the end of CC due to that infernal Unstable special rule. Nurgle could help against massed shooting as the -1 BS would modify their shooting. If it were just a straight up -1 to hit then the TK's would laugh it off. Failing all else Slaanesh would help against the massed Fear/Terror causing army if you think that will be a concern. Edited by MasteroDisaster, Jan 15 2013, 04:47 PM.
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| Harbinger | Jan 16 2013, 01:02 PM Post #15 |
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The Chosen
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Nurgle won't help with the shooting, as it states that they take a -1 to the to hit roll. It's -1 WS in melee with nurgle. |
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