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500pts!
Topic Started: Mar 18 2013, 02:25 AM (334 Views)
Lord Farfhocel
Warrior of the Chamber
I was challenged by some minimalists to a 500pts match...

I was facing knight spam brets and skirmisher spam wood elfs...


H Steve the Magician Lv1 MoT 125 Lore of metal(sig spell;D)

C 10 MoT Woc shields fcd gleaming pendant 205

C 5 Dawgies 30

S Gorebeast chariot..;D nurglitch 140

POW! right in the kisser :rock:
Edited by Lord Farfhocel, Mar 18 2013, 05:11 AM.
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Asvaldir
Member Avatar
Chosen of Tzeentch
Can't take MoT and use the lore of fire. Only metal or the lore of tzeentch.

I think 500pts is too small but this seems like a good list.
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Lord Farfhocel
Warrior of the Chamber
Sweet lord of Change!

I meant lore of metal!!

don't know how I have missed that,

Thanks.. posting revisions :X
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propervillanz
Member Avatar
A Manly Muppet
At this point level i would drop the wizard, and considering the armies you are facing you would want some more speed in your list.

How about something like this:

2 x Chariots w/Mark of Slaanesh

2 x 5 Chaos Warhounds

3 Dragon Ogres w/Halberd or Great Weapon
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MyNameDidntFit
The Dark Prince
Unless they're houseruling for the low point level, it still needs a general. I'd personally go a bare-bones Fire Sorc, simply because Fire is frakking brutal at this points level (I've played quite a few 500pt games recently and it was the DE Fireball spam that won every game we all played :( ).
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H4d35
The Chosen
If a general is needed defo go with MyNameDidn'tFit's suggestion. Magical presence + single fire spell that can cause way too much pain to small units, you're onto a winner!

Chariots are good for crushing but if opponents are running small units, I'd consider the effect of some hellstriders in the army. If they can take out a couple of light skirmish units they'll get unstoppable + vanguard and ridiculous movement and ASF with flayers! Happy days!
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Lord Farfhocel
Warrior of the Chamber
thanks guys... notes from me

I don't like hellstriders... can't explain it, just don't like them...

my guys are good vs lo-mid infantry cavalry... but what they lack is proper punch vs the odd heavy metals... hence lore of metal...

I acknowledge the need for speed so:..

H Steve, ch shield, d gem 120

C chariot 110
C chariot 110

C dawgies (as extra 5 wounds on steve - I know not vs temps and cannons) 30
S gorebeast 130
;D

POW! right in the kisser!
Edited by Lord Farfhocel, Mar 19 2013, 03:54 AM.
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MyNameDidntFit
The Dark Prince
I would think the Gorebeast was your answer to heavy models. Taking Metal on a Lvl1 for the sig spell means you've wasted 120 points (150) if you play Elves (of any kind but esp. WE) or, well, anyone with lesser armour.

Trust me when I say that, at 500 points, 3d6 S4 hits is more than enough to kill what sparse heavy armour you'll see... I'd run the math on 3d6 S4 and 1d6 wounding on 2+ vs knights or something, but I really don't feel like it.
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Player not found
The Chosen
MyNameDidntFit
Mar 19 2013, 07:41 PM
I would think the Gorebeast was your answer to heavy models. Taking Metal on a Lvl1 for the sig spell means you've wasted 120 points (150) if you play Elves (of any kind but esp. WE) or, well, anyone with lesser armour.

Trust me when I say that, at 500 points, 3d6 S4 hits is more than enough to kill what sparse heavy armour you'll see... I'd run the math on 3d6 S4 and 1d6 wounding on 2+ vs knights or something, but I really don't feel like it.
I just did run the maths against a 5-man unit of Knights of the Empire (T3, 1+ save)

Fireball :
- Chance to wound (S4 vs T3) : 3+ = 4/6
- Chance to fail save (1+ -> 2+) : 1/6
- Total : 4/36 = 1/9

Rolling 3d6 hits, we have an average of 10.5 hits
10.5 * 1/9 = 1.1666 wounds*

Searing Doom :
- Chance to wound : 2+ = 5/6
- Chance to fail save : auto
- Total : 5/6

Rolling 1d6 hit, we have an average of 3.5 hits
3.5 * 5/6 = 2.9166 wounds*

So Searing Doom definitely fares better than Fireball in this case (especially considering that to do 3D6 hits, Fireball has a casting value of 18+, at which point we could have cast Searing Doom at a 20+ for 2D6 hits...)

* Since we cannot inflict more than 5 wounds on a 5-man unit, these numbers are slightly off against the unit I mentioned. Actual number of wounds Fireball inflicts is 1.16544... whereas Searing Doom inflicts 2.8609.

+ Edit : Oops, you're right MNDF, I didn't even take a moment to look at my numbers and just assumed I'd punched it in correctly, but you're right I was way off...
Edited by Player not found, Mar 19 2013, 10:04 PM.
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MyNameDidntFit
The Dark Prince
That's about what I expected, to be honest (though 3.5 * 5/6 is closer to 3 off the top of my head for Searing). I certainly don't think the couple extra wounds against a very specific target justifies the loss of versatility. Especially at this points level.

Slam the Gorebeast into whatever high-AS unit the enemy has and watch them flail ineffectually at it while you bomb their general's bunker, tear up their chaff, ruin their shooting and thin out their combat units with fireballs.
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Player not found
The Chosen
My point however was that comparing a 3D6 Fireball to a 1D6 Searing Doom is really being obtuse and trying to weigh results in favour of the Fireball. Comparing the 3d6 FB to the 2d6 SD would be more appropriate.
I admit the FB is far more versatile, but against the target that had been mentioned, SD wins hands-down.
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MyNameDidntFit
The Dark Prince
To be honest, I said that because I forgot you can boost Searing until you mentioned it :p

While I wont contend that Searing Doom is better vs heavy armour saves, I simply can't find a single way to argue that it makes for a better spell to have at 500pts unless you know your opponents are all skewed toward heavy armour saturation.
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Lord Farfhocel
Warrior of the Chamber
Hi, Thanks for posting your thoughts and especially the mathammer part..

I would think and go with FB for any pre-declared tournaments and SD to screw with my bretonnian colleague (because he is an annoying and unsporting lad)...

So finally I do think FB makes him more all around and I can't forget that GB have KB impact hits... (not that I count on them... I'm just saying it could happen.
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UNMANAGEABLE
Warrior of the Chamber
MyNameDidntFit
Mar 20 2013, 07:21 PM
To be honest, I said that because I forgot you can boost Searing until you mentioned it :p

While I wont contend that Searing Doom is better vs heavy armour saves, I simply can't find a single way to argue that it makes for a better spell to have at 500pts unless you know your opponents are all skewed toward heavy armour saturation.
Welp. He's facing Bretonnians which is a whole army of 2+/6(5)++

or. Wood elves... which is 5+ really at the highest... and a lot of flammable stuff...

Anything stopping you from picking your poison versus individual opponents? :p
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MyNameDidntFit
The Dark Prince
UNMANAGEABLE
Mar 22 2013, 12:36 PM
Anything stopping you from picking your poison versus individual opponents? :p
Well that depends on if you're running all comers' lists or tailoring your list to each opponent. Seeing as how Lores are chosen at the army list stage...

Skirmisher spam Wood Elves is going to see virtually no armour saves at all. Dryads have no armour, neither do Glade Guard Scouts, Waywatchers, Wardancers or any other skirmisher they have.
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