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Chaos vs Brits
Topic Started: May 23 2013, 07:35 AM (966 Views)
honorandglory
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The Chosen
Wulfrik
May 27 2013, 04:09 AM
They really should FAQ this, because it is definitely rather dumb. They are clearly magical weapons, so logically, they should have the same restrictions as magic weapons.

However, with the current rules, you absolutely can have Flaming on the Knights (or Poison, for that matter).

Ensorcelled weapons state the following:
Quote:
 
Attacks made with ensorcelled weapons are resolved at +1 Strength. In addition, these are magical attacks.
Now let's compare that to a unit that actually does get magic weapons, Bloodletters. Here's what it says for Hellblades:
Quote:
 
Magic Weapon. Attacks made with a Hellblade have the Killing Blow special rule.
Those two words at the beginning make all the difference. If you look at the Plaguebearers' Plagueswords, they say the same thing: Magic Weapon. So yeah, until they FAQ it otherwise, it's completely legal to use the Flame banner on Knights.
If they had wanted them to be magic weapons they would have been written like in the Demon book, quoted here again. Until they do FAQ it it is clear that they are not "magic weapons". Now that's not saying that they will,or even need to FAQ it.
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Wulfrik
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The Chosen
honorandglory
May 27 2013, 05:30 AM
If they had wanted them to be magic weapons they would have been written like in the Demon book, quoted here again. Until they do FAQ it it is clear that they are not "magic weapons". Now that's not saying that they will,or even need to FAQ it.
Yeah, I agree. I still think think it's dumb, but it's clear that the ensorcelled weapons are not meant to be magic weapons with how they're written in the book. As for whether or not it should be errata'd: yes, it absolutely should, either to say that Knights can or can't use the banner. It would lay yet another tired rules debate to rest, and that's always a good thing.
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LORD VOKUL'NAX
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Corrupted Slann
honorandglory
May 27 2013, 05:30 AM
If they had wanted them to be magic weapons they would have been written like in the Demon book, quoted here again. Until they do FAQ it it is clear that they are not "magic weapons". Now that's not saying that they will,or even need to FAQ it.
You're assuming that GW authors are always consistent and write their rules in a straight forward fashion. I don't think their intention is very clear when it comes to enscrolled weapons. But if I had to venture a guess I would interpret this rule in the opposite way as you have. I think the general consensus is still pretty muddled when it comes to this debate.
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MyNameDidntFit
The Dark Prince
I'm not at all sure how this is construed to be unclear: the precedent of Magic Weapons either being in the Magic Weapons list or having "Magic Weapon" in their description is remarkably clear in 8th Edition.

As Ensorcelled Weapons conform to neither of these clear indicators, nor have anything other than Magical Attacks (a different thing) to make them be, rules-wise, Magic Weapons.

Heck, my opinion is that they should be Magic Weapons. Doesn't change the facts of the matter: the precedent is clear and the EW rules have no mention of being a Magic Weapon--to add it in would be folly. If it gets FAQ'd; great, but until then it's the same as Kholek not getting Heavy Armour pre-FAQ--no matter the intention, it's not written there.



/Edit: also, I'd like to apologise, Godless; my quoting you was a petty attempt at spite due to an exceptionally poor mood on my part. I shame myself before the pantheon.
Edited by MyNameDidntFit, May 27 2013, 06:46 PM.
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Kurrilino
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Exalted Guardian
i mean alone the word "ensorcelled" means that someone or somewhat
put magic on that weapon.

I have difficulties to believe that an "enscorcelled" weapon is not a magic weapon.

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LORD VOKUL'NAX
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Corrupted Slann
Good point Kurrilino. I'm inclined to agree.

This debate just continues to rage on.... so much for the main topic! ;)
Edited by LORD VOKUL'NAX, May 28 2013, 09:58 AM.
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MyNameDidntFit
The Dark Prince
Ah, but if semantics are the game: to ensorcell is to enchant. So while Ensorcelled Weapons are not magic by nature but rather through enchantment applied to them; Magic Weapons are weapons with inherent magical properties.

So, just as Flaming Sword of Rhuin does not turn weapons into Magic Weapons, nor does the enchantment on Ensorcelled Weapons.

;)
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Kal
The Chosen
Ok how about this... If a unit has BoEF they get flaming attacks but not flaming weapons. Same with ensorcelled. Get magic attacks but not magic weapons... Kinda ish if that makes sense. Haha sry im still new to this.
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AshBorn
The Chosen
MyNameDidntFit
May 28 2013, 07:34 PM
Ah, but if semantics are the game: to ensorcell is to enchant. So while Ensorcelled Weapons are not magic by nature but rather through enchantment applied to them; Magic Weapons are weapons with inherent magical properties.

So, just as Flaming Sword of Rhuin does not turn weapons into Magic Weapons, nor does the enchantment on Ensorcelled Weapons.

;)
Beautifully written.

End of debate.

:)

Seriously though GW, freakin FAQ it. Until then, eat my ensorcelled flaming mace!
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Asamu
The Chosen
Kal
May 23 2013, 10:15 AM
Appreciate the info. Ill look into trying out Lore of Metal. ANd if they get wards vs str 5+ maybr i should go AHW over my halberds?
Halberds are still a better option than AHW. The extra minus 1 to armor save is a bigger difference than the change in the ward save.
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Kal
The Chosen
Thanks man. Im not gonna try to tailor my list against him. Just gonna go at it. This friday. Halberds shall stay. This post definatly got off topic
Edited by Kal, May 29 2013, 07:24 AM.
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