| Welcome to The Chamber of the Everchosen. We hope you enjoy your visit! Here at COTEC we are all about the Warriors of Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy Battle. Tactics to help you slaughter your opponent on the tabletop, through to galleries on how to build your next Warshrine. Its all covered... and growing! We are a forum for gamers and hobbyist alike and again would like to welcome you to a fun, friendly, warm place and hope to see you again! Join our legion! Takes less than a minute and gives you access to everything! If you're already a member please log in to your account by entering the correct runes and words of power: |
| Rule question that came up at a tournament yesterday. | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: May 26 2013, 09:04 PM (372 Views) | |
| kris_kapsner | May 26 2013, 09:04 PM Post #1 |
|
Clanlord
|
I had two situations in the same combat at a tournament yesterday that I would like some clarification on. One is probably easy, the other is not. I'll start out by saying that I was playing Warriors of Chaos with a DP and Chimera. I charged the Demon Price and Chimera both into the flank of a unit of 6 Ironguts that were in a formation 5 wide with 4 characters in the front rank. I proceeded to cast a Purple Sun into the unit that was only 2x5 in models, so I could hit every one. My opponent passed his "look out sir" roll for all 4 characters. Then, he proceeded to roll 10 Initiative tests because that is how many models were passed over. He made 5 out of the 10, leaving just one Irongut left standing with the 4 characters all in a line away from me. This leads to my first question of curiosity. What if he would have only passed something like 2 initiative tests out of the 10. Would all the characters sill be standing? Or, would two of those characters still have to die? And, if that's the case, those characters have a higher initiative, how would you compensate for that? The situation didn't arise, but I want to get some clarification on how it would work. 2nd Question: The Tyrant challenged and my demon prince had to accept. This meant that the chimera was only in contact with the tyrant who was in a challenge. So, the chimera couldn't use his attacks. However, I said that I was releasing the chimera's breath weapon, which is distributed as shooting against a unit he is in combat with. My opponent said that the challenge rules state that the chimera can't attack. I argued that he can use an attack that distributes as shooting. Which of us is correct in this situation? Thanks in advance. |
![]() |
|
| Kal | May 26 2013, 10:01 PM Post #2 |
|
The Chosen
|
I thought CC breath weapons were used during combat in ini order? |
![]() |
|
| rothgar13 | May 26 2013, 10:20 PM Post #3 |
![]()
Clanlord
|
Pretty sure you would be able to use the Breath Weapon, as you are in contact with the unit, and nothing changes that. You just can't swing at the Tyrant. As for the I-test thing, the characters will be left standing there. Once the attacks have been allocated vs. the unit, any "overkill" as it were is wasted. |
![]() |
|
| Tremendous | May 26 2013, 11:02 PM Post #4 |
|
Exalted Guardian
|
I dont believe you could have used the breath weapon because, since you weren't touching the unit (Just the tyrant) you couldn't reach the unit with the Flaming breath because the Tyrant, who you cant attack thanks to the challenge, was in the way. You have to be in base to base with the target in order to use the attacks and the challenge actually put you out of base to base with the unit. For example, if your DP had the breath weapon attack and in the challenge you decided to use it, even though he's in the unit and it has 5+ rank and file models in it the breath weapons attacks ONLY hit the character your DP is in the challenge with. Same with any Stomp or THunderstomp attacks you might be able to make in the same challenge. (FAQ under the Command Group section) So unfortunately, unless your Chimera was in B-t-B with any model other than the Tyrant in your example he couldnt use his Breath weapon to attack. He just got to watch the show. This is how we rule that in our area and the rules back this up. However, if ANYONE has info showing otherwise, a ruling that I'm missing (It happens!) please enlighten me! As for the Vortex INTO combat.... I didnt think that was legal as the BRB states that you cant target a unit in Close Combat with Magic Missiles, Direct Damage, or Vortex spells. I mean I guess I could see how you're not "Targeting" the unit specifically since its a vortex... but if your caster is IN CC with the unit and casts the spell the only unit its going to hit is the one thats in CC, which is your intention and thats targeting... I could see it if a caster NOT in combat with the unit hit by the vortex casted the spell in their direction as being legal, but, the way we play it in my neck of the woods, if the caster in in CC he cant cast vortexes because the only unit he's able to even "see" is specifically protected from being targeted by that spell by the BRB's ruling on how spells can be cast. Is there a ruling I'm missing somewhere that clarifies this? (God knows I dont know everything. lol!) Or somewhere that states this is allowed? In my area, and in the tournaments around here its not allowed becasue of what the BRB states. Hope this helps! :) |
![]() |
|
| Foxen | May 26 2013, 11:21 PM Post #5 |
|
The Chosen
|
The brb says that you cant target units in CC with MM and DD spells. It does not say that you cant cast vortex when you are in combat. Also it says that a vortex does not have a target. You place the template in contact with caster and of it goes. "Wizards cannot target spells at units engaged in close combat". Check summary in the back and vortex. Can be targeted into combat? : n/a Target friends : n/a Target enemies : n/a Vortex does not target anything meaning it is possible for a DP to cast Sun when he is locked in combat. Or am I wrong? |
![]() |
|
| LORD VOKUL'NAX | May 26 2013, 11:27 PM Post #6 |
|
Corrupted Slann
|
That's the way I've been playing it as well. It has no target, so it is legal to use against the unit you're in close combat with. |
![]() |
|
| Kal | May 26 2013, 11:36 PM Post #7 |
|
The Chosen
|
I always shoot my vortexes in CC its allowed as far as ive known |
![]() |
|
| Wulfrik | May 27 2013, 03:18 AM Post #8 |
|
The Chosen
|
Yeah, it is perfectly legal to throw a vortex into a combat. As was said earlier, they do not "target" anything. The description of them is pretty explicit about this: So not only can you throw it into your own combat, you can throw it into any combat on the field, or even backwards over the guy casting it (that's dangerous with something like Purple Sun, but the point is that you can do it). |
![]() |
|
| Mungojerrie | May 27 2013, 05:26 AM Post #9 |
|
The Chosen
|
The vortex would only hit ironguts. Characters are safe after their los. The breath weapon can be used. Distributed as shooting. |
![]() |
|
| kris_kapsner | May 28 2013, 11:45 AM Post #10 |
|
Clanlord
|
It seems odd that guys that are dying to a purple sun because of their own missed saving throw can still give a look out sir to the characters. But, I suppose that's how the rule is written. |
![]() |
|
| Tremendous | May 28 2013, 12:06 PM Post #11 |
|
Exalted Guardian
|
Thank you for the clarification. I run tournaments in my area and have updated everyone. :) You guys have made alot of people very happy, and some are a little upset. lol! Cant make everyone happy I guess. :) Thanks again! :) :) |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Tactics · Next Topic » |







4:27 PM Jul 11