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2000 Points - A question of Magic
Topic Started: May 28 2013, 08:47 AM (256 Views)
Vinohrady
Slave
[ * ]
Hello,

Ive been reading over forums etc but im not game experienced by any means. Is a level 4 caster a must have? as they are expensive and I can take a level 2 and different hero or part of a unit.

I see a lot of people rocking in with level 4 demon princes, isn't that very much an "all eggs in one basket approach" what if he dies early? at ~500 pts its a massive loss, and a level 4 marked sorcerer lord is ~400ish.

In practise how tough do those high level nurgle DP casters become as the potential for +1T +1W stacking is amazing but having ur general flying off by himself (or even with his friendly neighbour hood chimera) seems like a risk and a large point sink risk at that.

Am I being a mug not taking a level 4 (think tournament as casual games its more for fun than a result {and imo tourney play should be the same without gimping urself to be populat])

Any feedback would be appreciated.
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MasteroDisaster
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The Chosen
Warriors of Chaos characters are almost always more expensive than their equivelant for all the other armies but for good reason, 90% of the time they will kick teeth in. As for the matter of a Level 4 it's really a personal preference. I personally came over to WoC after High Elves and being a big fan of the magic phase since 5th ed it's a no brainer for me however a Level 4 isn't necessarily an auto-include. You can quite happily run about with a single or 2 level 2s, it will however put you at a disadvantage should your opponent take a level 4. A higher level wizard add's more flexibility during the magic phase as your more likely to get the spells you want.

Daemon Princes are a very common sight nowadays and at first glance it might seem like as you put it "all eggs in one basket" kind of approach but that isn't the case. Yes you pay 500+ points for the average Daemon Prince but you certainly get what you pay for. 90% of the time it will be marked Nurgle and have 4 Levels of wizarding in either of it's available lores (Both of which kick ass) it's statline is pretty scary and the combinations of gifts and equipment available are pretty filthy at the best of times.

Imagine a Daemon putting out 5 S6 attacks with WS 9 and Int. 8, D6 S6 Stomps, 2D6 S4 flaming breath attacks all of which can regenerate lost wounds AND all of which is protected by a 1+ armour, 5++ ward, 2++ against flaming attacks, -1 to hit in CC, first hit ignored on a 2+ and the damn thing is not only unbreakable but can move 20" on it's first turn almost guaranteeing a charge turn 2, as an added bonus for being your general his inspiring presence is actually 18" rather than the usual 12" because he is a monster so he can work further away from the rest of the army without too much backlash.

Daemon Prince
Flight, Chaos Armour, Mark of Nurgle, Level 4 Death, Flaming Breath, Chaos Familiar, Scaled Skin, Soul Feeder, Sword of Striking (+1 to hit), Charmed Shield and the Dragonbane Gem.
555

Here is an example of a fairly common DP build that will definately be worth his points. He is incredibly expensive but extremely versatile, almost unkillable in combat and will certainly cause havoc during the magic phase as well. You can certainly trim some of the fat to bring him back down to 500 points, the breath and chaos familiar for example could happily be dropped to clear points. Also the Sword could be changed for another item to help such as the other trickster's chard.

For enemy players this guy is an absolute beast and is a nightmare to deal with. Mine has only ever died once and that was because he blew his own head off with a dimensional cascade (t'was a real bad day for his magic phase lol)
Edited by MasteroDisaster, May 28 2013, 05:15 PM.
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Vinohrady
Slave
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Thanks for the reply :D
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MyNameDidntFit
The Dark Prince
MasteroDisaster
May 28 2013, 05:07 PM
his inspiring presence is actually 18" rather than the usual 12" because he is a monster
While I agree with everything else you've said, this isn't the case. It's a common misunderstanding, though:

Large Target is the rule that gives you an 18" Inspiring Presence and the Daemon Prince does not have Large Target.
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Vissah
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Self-Proclaimed Gangster of the Realm of Chaos
A Deamon Prince depends on your list. If you got other fast moving flying stuff that can back him up fast enough and put pressure on your opponent from turn 1 then he will be more save then when you play a list with lots of infantry.

I also been thinking of adding a Prince but I use two/three blocks of infantry with a block of Knights, Skullcrushers and two Gorebeast Chariots and of course some warhounds. This list is good and fun to play with but it will take to long (according to me) so give him backup. If I am wrong and someone uses a same style list as me please let me know how it is working out for you :D
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MasteroDisaster
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The Chosen
MyNameDidntFit
May 28 2013, 08:04 PM
MasteroDisaster
May 28 2013, 05:07 PM
his inspiring presence is actually 18" rather than the usual 12" because he is a monster
While I agree with everything else you've said, this isn't the case. It's a common misunderstanding, though:

Large Target is the rule that gives you an 18" Inspiring Presence and the Daemon Prince does not have Large Target.


:blink: Well bugger me backwards! I didn't realize that! Thanks for letting me know, I remember reading it as Monstrous Creatures or Mosnters etc but then again my memory is shot to bits! Too... many.... rules!!!

I actually field a DP in a similar list Vissah. 2 blocks of infantry, unit of knights, 2x GBCs few spawn and some hounds with infantry heroes, however instead of Khornes lame-o Skullcrushers I prefer Nurgles Kayzk the Befouled with complimentary Rot Knights. I find that slamming the DP into CC turn 1-2 works surprisingly well as he can hold up the enemies threat unit while the rest of the army can ponderously mark forwards positioning itself for combo charges or other favorable threats. Rarely does my chimera get into the list these days. My DP loves munching bunkers with Mages in them if all else fails the general or BSB is a nice juicy target early on. Chewing out an enemies key character early game can REALLY mess up their day :D
Edited by MasteroDisaster, May 28 2013, 10:41 PM.
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Vissah
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Self-Proclaimed Gangster of the Realm of Chaos
MasteroDisaster
May 28 2013, 10:33 PM
MyNameDidntFit
May 28 2013, 08:04 PM
MasteroDisaster
May 28 2013, 05:07 PM
his inspiring presence is actually 18" rather than the usual 12" because he is a monster
While I agree with everything else you've said, this isn't the case. It's a common misunderstanding, though:

Large Target is the rule that gives you an 18" Inspiring Presence and the Daemon Prince does not have Large Target.


:blink: Well bugger me backwards! I didn't realize that! Thanks for letting me know, I remember reading it as Monstrous Creatures or Mosnters etc but then again my memory is shot to bits! Too... many.... rules!!!

I actually field a DP in a similar list Vissah. 2 blocks of infantry, unit of knights, 2x GBCs few spawn and some hounds with infantry heroes, however instead of Khornes lame-o Skullcrushers I prefer Nurgles Kayzk the Befouled with complimentary Rot Knights. I find that slamming the DP into CC turn 1-2 works surprisingly well as he can hold up the enemies threat unit while the rest of the army can ponderously mark forwards positioning itself for combo charges or other favorable threats. Rarely does my chimera get into the list these days. My DP loves munching bunkers with Mages in them if all else fails the general or BSB is a nice juicy target early on. Chewing out an enemies key character early game can REALLY mess up their day :D
Thanx mate now I will give my Deamon Prince some fresh paint and chuck him in me list :D
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dajunglebrotha
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The Chosen
how does he work in the magic phase if he is in close combat? is he still able to cast outside of the unit he is engaged with?
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MasteroDisaster
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The Chosen
dajunglebrotha
May 29 2013, 12:10 AM
how does he work in the magic phase if he is in close combat? is he still able to cast outside of the unit he is engaged with?
It depends on the spells and lore you have given him. I tend to favour Lore of Nurgle so I often have lots of Augments and Hexes. Seeing as these spells do not require line of sight (as per FAQ) and their targets do not need to lie within your forward arc you can happily have the DP support other units outside of his combat or even himself if you feel the need.

A Nurgle DP with Miasma of Pestilence and Curse of the Leper is a right bugger to shift once he is in combat. Even with the Lore of Death you can still cast Doom and Darkness on the enemy unit to increase their chances of running away after a break test or even Soulblight to hinder their ability to hurt him. So long as you have a healthy selection of Augments or Hexes you can cast magic fine. Thats the great thing about these particular spells.

Additionally with the previously mentioned lores which also have Magic Vortex Spells they can be fired off whilst your in combat if my memory serves as they do not target a unit but rather a point on the field, you can then send a Plaguewind/Purple Sun to further whittle down the enemy whilst the DP chews them out during the combat phase later that turn. Seeing as the Lore of Nurgle only really has 2 easily usable damaging spells they are great when you can get them both off (Rancid Visitations and Plaguewind IMO) but Plaguewind can be cast whilst your in combat which makes a pretty big difference.

Either way I've never found it to be a major problem, the DP is probably THE best all rounder in the game with formidable combat and magic abilities under his belt.
Edited by MasteroDisaster, May 29 2013, 03:22 PM.
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