Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Chamber of the Everchosen. We hope you enjoy your visit!


Here at COTEC we are all about the Warriors of Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

Tactics to help you slaughter your opponent on the tabletop, through to galleries on how to build your next Warshrine. Its all covered... and growing!

We are a forum for gamers and hobbyist alike and again would like to welcome you to a fun, friendly, warm place and hope to see you again!


Join our legion! Takes less than a minute and gives you access to everything!


If you're already a member please log in to your account by entering the correct runes and words of power:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Mark III 2000pt Competitive WoC
Topic Started: Nov 26 2013, 04:26 AM (663 Views)
Minigiant
Slave
[ * ]
I want to start by introducing myself considering this is my first post. I go by Minigiant on numerous amount of boards and have been in the hobby for nearly 13 years now. I have predominantly played 40k and specialist games such as Blood bowl, Necromunda and Mordheim. I have dabbled in WFB once or twice before with little success because of varying outside factors but now plan to bark upon it again once i return to the UK in April 2014

As i narrow down further and further onto my competitive WoC army list. I have written numerous WoC lists these past few weeks i finally feel like im close to being as refined as possible and I have finally reached a list that

1. I feel Comfortable with
2. Is Refined and Competitive

The Current list has come a long way off my original inspiration. It is now a 2000 army list coming in on the dot and is intended for top tier competitive play upon my return to the UK after my current year abroad in Canada.

Considering the meta i will be going into is one of a top tier competitive environment of winning comes first. The lists seen a generally ones that if piloted correctly and a few good dice rolls can win most tournaments. I cant tell you what races i will be facing because a) Ive been in Canada for a while now b)Haven't played fantasy for longer than that.

The game plan is by far not the most elegant ever devised but that is how i feel WoC play best. The list has two distinct elements that work together and among themselves. Part 1 consists of the dual Hellcannons, Chimera and Nurgle daemon prince and Part 2 concentrates around a block of Warriors of Chaos led by a Rock solid BSB. Hammer and Anvil in its simplest terms. The Chariots are used to break units held up by the warriors and hopefully at the same time break the back of the opponents army and the hounds are there to protect the elements of part 2 at all costs

UPDATED
3 Previous army lists
Spoiler: click to toggle


So what i took from the feedback from these two army lists was that i needed greater fortitude, difficulty in winning banner scenarios and needing a BSB so to address these I dropped Throgg and his trolls for a BSB and a block of Warriors. I had to tweak points around so gorebeasts were downgraded to standard chariots and i also decided i wanted to participate in every phase so i added two hellcannons

anyway here is the Mark III list:
Spoiler: click to toggle


So what do you think? Improvement? Will it do well?

For anyone who is interested the army is having a Maritime Lovecraftian theme which can be explained further below

Spoiler: click to toggle


There we have it, tell me what you think
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Minigiant
Slave
[ * ]
Im going to bump here

If i havent formatted my first post in a way that draws comments please feel free to say

Anyway i hope to get some constructive criticism here

Edit: Any suggestions on making it a 2400pts army please speak up
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Nongor
The Chosen
It looks very strong to me. The DP build is very solid. I've gone away from SoSt and taken the OTS instead, but either item is fine. The BSB is super tough and will obviously give you great speed and versatility on the battlefield. I'd be tempted to have at least 1 unit of dogs vanguard, but it probably won't make much of a difference in your list. The only issue I can see is there is no unit to garrison a watchtower if required.

Personally I think it is a very tough list and difficult for an opponent to beat. You have three fast flyers, 2 hard to kill warmachines/monsters and plenty of chaff. Draw backs are only 2 banners and no ranks for CR. The positives more than make up for the negatives. I don't know the UK meta or if they use many scenarios or ETC restrictions, Swedish comp etc. There may be a lot of variety at tournaments or little so I can't offer any opinions about this.

At 2,400-2,500 points I definitely suggest a ranked unit of warriors. This will give you an extra banner, a unit to take a building, plus give you enough core points. A unit of Hellstriders, a level 2 wizard or another Exalted (on foot with the Warriors) would be great additions. A second Sorcerer helps if you lose your DP early, and if you get a really high roll on the Winds of Magic, plus you could take a dispell scroll. The Exalted gives the Warriors extra punch and makes them extremely difficult to budge from a building, or conversely when assaulting a building. The flaming banner is an awesome addition to this unit as you get re-rolls to wound in a building and cause fear in cavalry. The Hellstriders give you a fast warmachine or chaff hunter and their speed makes them extremely helpful in flank/combo charging with the monsters if needed.
Edited by Nongor, Nov 29 2013, 02:30 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
conjoy
Exalted Guardian
I'm afraid I have to disagree, I'm not sure this list works at all.

Firstly, almost every tourney in the UK is going to either use a comp system or scenarios or both and is played at 2.4k.
SCGT is the most common comp system and your list is illegal under SCGT at 2k let alone 2.4. Core chariots are almost universally comped, and I would expect Helcannons, Nu DPs, Chimeras and Tal of Pres+3rd Eye combo all to be widely comped as they are this year.
If playing scenarios, killing your DP auto-loses you Blood and Glory, you have no combat units to take or hold Watch Tower and a lot of points invested in the Helcannons in the random deployment scenarios.

In terms of how the list would play, certainly you’ve chosen a lot of the more powerful individual choices from the book, I think the list overall generally lacks synergy.

I don’t think the combo of Helcannons and DP/Disc BSB works at all. The HCs comprise in excess of 20% of your army, but with no BSB nearby they have only an 80% pass rate for their Ldr test each turn. That’s 1/5th of the time they are running off uselessly and not contributing. While HCs are very tough and hard to kill, there are plenty of units that can tie them up if they are left by themselves, and without Tz magic you are really not making the most of one of their most dangerous features.
There are too many ‘speeds’ in your army. Unless you are planning on just using the HCs as combat units and marching them every turn (not a reliable option because of the ldr issue above) the army is going to arrive piece meal, allowing your opponent to beat each element with the entirety of his army. I’m not even sure how well the first ‘wave’ works because of the footprint of your flyers. You can’t deploy/move the Chimeras or BSB (to a lesser extent) within 6’ of the DP in case the DP gets killed causing panic tests.

It looks to me like you need to choose a play-style and maximise it. Helcannons with Warriors and maybe Trolls in a Helcannon list or drop the HCs and take Skull crushers to maximise target saturation in an aggressive list. Beyond that, you also need to think about counters to some of the more common opponent builds like the DoC Wall, WoC with DP and double SKrushers, Empire armour spam (although your current list does ok here), Hellf Cav bus, Ogres with Gutstar, double IBlaster and MFang, your list would do OK if it weren’t for cannons, but almost all of the top armies will.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Vantraxx
Member Avatar
The Thrice Cursed
What tournament system are you building this army for? It may have serious limitations on comp scores etc
I believe a bsb is vital for any WoC army. I tool mine up hortense style with DM for extra wound and toughness.
I prefer the Slaanesh dp over the nurgle variety. Bubble Choir is devastating and allows you to control the enemy movement phase. Seriously nothing else in the game can cripple an army with 1 spell... then you roll for lore attribute and if you are already in combat you become a powerhouse.
Edited by Vantraxx, Nov 29 2013, 08:08 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Festus the Lardlord
The Chosen
I agree with Vantraxx - look at the tournament(s) you are looking to enter and build accordingly - me and the other half are looking at doing Throne of Skulls at Warhammer world and if I remember correctly its in February so for that its 2k with no comp - but the use of potentially any of the scenarios will affect any build that we come up with as well as the margin of victory system - do we take an army which we know should do well but will also be taken by a lot of people with potentially getting the same results thus reducing the margin of victory or do we take something a little more leftfield which if everything goes right could give us a massive margin of victory? Choices choices!

A lot depends on what you want to achieve - for me and the other half we want a laugh and to be honest if we go in February its more a chance to play some games, drink far too much, meet new people and spend a ton of dosh at forgeworld. We do want to do well but its more a case of having fun. As for the popularity of armies dark elves are the shiny new kids on the block so I'd expect to see a few of them along with Warriors, High Elves and Ogres. Lizards are a bit of a funny one - I live about two hours away from Warhammer World and a lot of people local to me have started using lizards to play with at clubs but these are not being seen in competition - they have been going through a fairly long period of playtesting for the more competitive players so when these guys are happy with them I would expect to see them on the tabletop but as to when this will happen is anyones' guess. The biggest issues for a lot of them is the low initiative and coping with the likes of purple sun etc - but then why are ogres so popular? It's a bit strange - the same people who wouldn't consider lizards due to their low initiative use ogres as their tournament army!

As for the non GW tournaments I don't have any first hand experience - as has been said before from my understanding they are 2.4K and use a range of comp systems so it is a case of picking a competition and then looking at their restrictions. Me and the boss are looking to do a few but unfortunately real life has got in the way so far!

One thing to point out - if the rumours are to be believed a new edition of Fantasy should be coming out a few months after you get back to the UK. If this is the case then we can guess at what the meta will be like (and how the tournament scene will react to it) based on any rumours that appear or look for clues in the design of the more recent army books but won't know for certain until it is released so what may be relevant now may not be say in twelve months time.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Minigiant
Slave
[ * ]
Vantraxx
Nov 29 2013, 08:01 PM
What tournament system are you building this army for? It may have serious limitations on comp scores etc
Vantraxx made a good point so before i continued to develop my army list i messaged a few friends to find out if there was any comp and thank god i checked, it is ETC comped so i went back to the drawing board.

I want to thank everyone who commented because even though im not using that army list anymore i learnt a lot because of your constructive comments that i was able to take into my new army list seen below

Spoiler: click to toggle


Edit: Here are the rules for ETC Comp for WoC

• Chaos chariots, max 3
• Daemon prince/crown of command/BSB on daemonic mount/skullcrusher unit/chimera after the 1st, max 3
• Hellcannon/lore of death in the army/lore of tzeentch in the army, max 2
• Max 1 on the same model: Third eye of Tzeentch/talisman of preservation/armour of destiny
• Max 2 on the same daemonprince: chaos armour/wizard level(s)/daemon of nurgle/flying

Edited by Minigiant, Dec 4 2013, 11:45 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Vantraxx
Member Avatar
The Thrice Cursed
Ah good old ETC... i'm not familiar with their comp system so i'll chime out for now ;) Good news is there are a tonne of forum members that are experienced in that ststem, hopefully they will jump in with some solid advice for you.
Edited by Vantraxx, Dec 4 2013, 10:49 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Armylist · Next Topic »
Add Reply